Deus Ex Human Revolution EP11:Stealth Grenades

By Shamus Posted Tuesday Jan 31, 2012

Filed under: Spoiler Warning 140 comments

Link (YouTube)

Oh no! Somebody changed my internet show and now it’s different! Change it back! I fear things that are new and strange!

Once you get over the shock, please welcome Chris Franklin to the show. You might remember him as Campster, the guy who had the AUDACITY to not love Half-Life as much as we do. Josh, Rutskarn and I have been plotting our revenge for weeks. After a long discussion, we couldn’t come up with anything more unpleasant than being on the show with the rest of us. So here he is. Our plan is to subject him to Rutskarn’s puns until he agrees to wear a “Half-Life is #1 game with no flaws” foam finger on his right hand at all times.

He didn’t crack this week. In fact, he pretty much just talked about Deus Ex the whole time. During the show about Deus Ex! Can you believe it? Whatta n00b.

On a less absurdist note: If you want some bonus content today, check out his take on Duke Nukem Forever, where he argues that people hated it for all the wrong reasons. This is just the sort of meta-commentary that makes me happy.

You might notice I didn’t review DNF. I couldn’t do it. Despite all the jokes I made at the expense of the game, deep down I really wanted to like it. When the game failed, I wasn’t angry. Just disappointed. I actually quit playing when I got to the platforming section in the burger joint. I meant to go back and give it another try, but I never did. I could never stockpile enough indignation to get a good rant going, and so I let the game slip by in silence.


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140 thoughts on “Deus Ex Human Revolution EP11:Stealth Grenades

  1. Nikos Saripoulos says:

    Awesome! Chris Franklin Rules… i like his way of thinking! This is a good recruit for the show! Thanx spoiler warning! :D

    1. Henebry says:

      I couldn’t agree more. When I clicked over to the YouTube on DNF, I said, hey, it’s that guy! Great choice, Shamus. And I’m excited to discover that the internet is a smaller world than I’d realized.

      Chris, great to have your incisive criticism added to the mix!

      1. Gamer says:

        I just watched his stuff yesterday. I agree, good choice and Chris just earned himself another subscriber.

        I particularly liked the Mirror’s Edge and Human Revolution episodes. He speaks the truth.

  2. Mailbox says:

    Josh, you double tapped Double-T in the face!
    Yeah I was surprised to learn that Jensen was such a light weight. You would think he would be able to process alcohol even better with augs. I guess that means his liver is intact.

    1. Destrustor says:

      Well considering he lost the mass and blood capacity of both his legs and arms, any dose of alcohol he takes is certainly proportionally much larger than before. A midget gets much more drunk than a six-foot dude even when they both ingest the same quantity of booze.
      Adam just hasn’t adjusted his intake habits yet. And I doubt Sarif would pay for an implant to allow his chief of security to “drink moar boozes”

      1. krellen says:

        If my chief of security was a Cuftbert, I would make damn sure I installed an augment that ensured he did not get extremely drunk no matter how much booze he ingested.

        1. Adalore says:

          Give this man a raise!

          Multiply that zero.

        2. el_b says:

          I know right? If you didn’t he might become dangerous or start stealing things!

        3. 4th Dimension says:

          Then he’ll be forced to switch to another wierder addiction. Like sneaking into anything and stealing everything.

          1. el_b says:

            no, only fridges.

  3. Daemian Lucifer says:

    Just started watching,and I immediately have to post this observation:Chris is already a pro spoiler warning talker,seeing how he cut his name short in the introduction.Welcome!

    1. swenson says:

      Haha, agreed. He’ll fit in well.

      “Hello everyone, I’m Shamu.”
      “I’m Jos.”
      “I’m Rutska.”
      “And I’m Chri.”

      1. Shamus says:

        For the record: We have proven (using SCIENCE!) that this is a bug in Ventrilo, which only seems to manifest when you record something lengthy. And yes, we might be able to combat it by cutting up our recording sessions, but… gah. That is messy and difficult for a lot of reasons.

        *shakes fist*

        1. discordance says:

          The solution, obviously, is to introduce yourself by saying “Hello, I’m Shamusssssssssssssssssssssss…”


          1. Michael says:

            I’d love to watch an episode where everyone talked like Cobra Commander.

            Either that or Doctor Claw. (or is it Klaw?)

          2. Daemian Lucifer says:

            It would be so amusing because if they did that I bet the bug would magically disappear and we would hear the whole thing.

        2. Gamer says:

          This does not make it any less amusing.

  4. Nic says:

    Sweet! Errant Signal is fantastic; I devoured those videos after Shamus first linked to them. Welcome to the show, Chris!

    1. Aanok says:

      Same here. Welcome Chris! :D

  5. Sydney says:

    Welcome to Spoiler Warning, Chri’! You fit right in.

  6. 4th Dimension says:

    Their rampant Chaotic Stupid Murdering and Punning is scaring away the Capmster. He said like two lines in the entire episode.

    1. Paul Spooner says:

      He’s getting used to it. Hopefully he’ll find his voice by the end of this episode block.
      I started doing this mission trying for “ghost” but ended up fighting everyone. Somehow, I never got the hang of stealth in this game. I think part of it is that I find the concept itself unbelievable.

      1. Blargh says:

        He will. It was the same with Ruts back in the early Fallout 3 episodes.

    2. SougoXIII says:

      I agree, I couldn’t hear Chris half of the time though I’m guessing that he’ll get use to this as the show go on.

      Shamus, the thing about the punch through wall augment is that it only cost 1 praxis point and there are two hidden praxis that you can only get by punching through wall so the augment actually pay for itself and then some.

      And Josh, you do realise that you just punched out a shopkeeper at the beginning of the episode? One that would happily relieve you of all the unnecessary stuffs that you’re carrying and give you money for them?

      1. Daemian Lucifer says:

        You can also blow up breakable walls with grenades.Its just harder to spot them without the aug.

        1. Jason says:

          Yup. One grenade or six shotgun shells. The aug is useful more for showing where the wall can be broken than actually doing it. Although even though you could have shot through that wall to get into Derelict Row, Josh, you didn’t have Icarus or a box to survive the landing, so deciding not to do it was wise.

          1. You can make it down that shaft without either – I did. There are bits sticking out of the wall that you can fall on, and each one isn’t so far that it causes you damage to land on it. Granted, I had to save-scum each drop to each of them.

            1. Jason says:

              Really? I tried to do that, and I failed. I guess I just didn’t spot the right bits of wall to fall on to catch myself. Well, technically Jensen, but whatever.

        2. SougoXIII says:

          Oh really? I honestly didn’t know that. Human revolution is pretty awesome.

          1. Daemian Lucifer says:

            I think he still would get path finding xp.Plus there are a couple of guys there for a bit more.

            Its funny how after so many years we are all praising a game for doing something that should come as natural:Breaking down stuff with explosives.Especially when its wooden doors.

            1. Raygereio says:

              Alternatively: we’re praising a game for throwing multiple possible paths towards the player, instead of just one single route.

        3. The Hokey Pokey says:

          You can also break them with several bullets.

          1. Eric says:

            This is what made the removal of melee so stupid and annoying for me. Blowing up doors with grenades, fine. But you can punch through a wall, and not punch a door down? And at the same time, shooting it with 20 pistol bullets causes it to shatter into a thousand pieces? I realize Deus Ex was always kind of gamey, but that kind of inconsistency in the rules of the game world is ridiculous.

            Honestly, the more I look at Human Revolution the more I kind of wonder if Eidos Montreal really didn’t understand how the individual game mechanics in Deus Ex worked together to form coherent systems, and instead just sort of went “it needs stealth, shooting, and exploration” without figuring out how to tie them together (further emphasized by the very distinct “stealth/combat/social” paths the game has). Melee combat was compelling because it also had strong utility value; hacking and lockpicking were interesting because investing in them at the expense of weapon skills left you gimped in a firefight; augmentations were clearly differentiated from skills by being limited-use superpowers, rather than mundane passive bonuses, and so on. I have great respect for them and the game they made, but I really have to question some of the rationale behind the decisions they made.

            1. Thomas says:

              I don’t think Deus Ex:Hr has any of the signs of a game where the devs didn’t know what they were doing and considering everything I feel it’s a shame that people keep putting it down as if Deus Ex was a magic ‘make game good book’ that Eidos Montreal kept to itself in a little corner and dumbly transcribed a couple of the lines down and then packaged it. You could tell from the very first room of the game that it’s not like that

      2. Hitch says:

        I’m pretty sure the inventory space augment is going to be the incinerator of Deux Ex. Josh will not buy it, and complain about an over-full inventory until the very end of the game. At which point he’ll break down and buy it an not pick up anything else for the rest of the game.

        Adam “Cuftbert” Jensen definitely has Cuftbert genes. Just as he got addicted to Whiskey with one bottle in New Vegas, he has this sort of reaction to his first drink in Deux Ex.

        1. littlefinger says:

          Please Josh. Listen to this man.

          Also, you missed a praxis kit. That jump you almost always miss in the beginning of baller territory, go back up the flight of stairs, and jump on the guardrails at the top. Above you, in a box, you’ll find it.

  7. The Hokey Pokey says:

    I love how Josh punches out the second merchant in Detroit because he couldn’t wait the two seconds it takes for the bodyguard to leave the hallway. Silencers are overrated anyway.

  8. Sleeping Dragon says:

    I won’t be able to watch the episode for the next few hours but I watched the Errant Signal episode under the link and this sounds quite interesting, a very intellectual approach to gaming… now I wonder if I’m going to have elevated expectations and the first things that Chris says is a pheromone joke…

    Also, Shamus, cut him some slack, you were also able to keep it mostly DX related for your first episode.

    1. Gamer says:

      Yeah. You get the host used to the show first, THEN you side-track him.

  9. Even says:

    You know that guy downstairs? HE WAS THE THE DAMN SHOPKEEPER YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO TALK TO AAARRGGHH! Not that he was that important character, but still.

    I hate to say it, but not knowing any better, it’s things like this where it comes off like you just ran through the game without paying attention to crucial things. Not saying you did, but for someone watching the first time, I feel that would be a fairly justified observation to make. This is almost exactly what I would perceive as the major weakness in just making the show as you go. One could argue it’s also a strong point in regards to the potential of hilarious moments, but after suffering through the New Vegas DLCs, I don’t know if they’ll ever fully make up for it, if the show decides to go down that alley again.

    Ranting aside, welcome to the show, Chris!

    1. Daemian Lucifer says:

      To be fair,this episodes points one of the strong points of the game:No plot armour for npcs.

      1. Even says:

        Actually there’s quite a few, most notably the whole of Sarif Building and the Limb Clinics. You can’t even bring up a weapon inside them. Taggart is also explicitly plot-armored when you first meet him inside the Stadium.

      2. Eric says:

        Watching people play videogames is disheartening, especially if you ever make them. No matter how many big flashing arrows you point at something, or how often you reinforce basic details about the story, characters and world, a few people are always going to completely miss those important things or forget what’s going on at any given point. Why do you think quick-time events, forced triggers for dialogue sequences, and non-interactive cutscenes are so common? Keeping people attentive and occupied for an extended period of time is not always easy to do. The worst part is, sometimes it’s not even the game’s fault, and you still have to figure out ways to fix it.

      3. Nick says:

        The most egregious one is for Tong later, as there are several moments where you’re completely alone with him in a room with a closed door. Add in the fact that he’s a bit of a bastard and you have a recipe for screaming at a plot wall

    2. guy says:

      I had not the slightest clue there even was another shopkeeper in Detroit on my playthroughs. This was the result of a phenomenon known as “bad game design”.

      Seriously, if something is important and a majority of the players miss it entirely, it is a problem with the game and not the players unless it is intended for most people to miss it.

      Now, there is nothing inherently wrong with hidden shopkeepers, but there should have straight-up been more shopkeepers in order for the hidden ones to become tolerable.

      1. Gruhunchously says:

        Technically, all of the shopkeepers are hidden, seeing as how you are never explicitly told about them (unless you save the hostages)or given their exact location. But all of them are in or near locations that you have to visit in order to complete story or side quests. Also, for the most part, there are NPCs nearby talking about them and off handedly giving away their general location (i.e “this apartment” or “The Hung Hua Hotel”) and most of them have conspicuous looking bodyguards that signal their presence. I don’t see how this is “bad game design”.

        Specifically in the case of Seurat, the shopkeeper that appearently nobody could find, Greg Thorpe tells you about him if you rescue him and his wife, when you go to the MCB hideout, where you have to go in order to complete Jenny’s sidequest, you can hear two gangbangers talking about getting weapons cheap from Seurat because Double T gave let him stay in the apartment. When (and if) you go down to the hallway where Seurat’s room is, you can see his bodyguard standing in the hall. Normally at this point, the guard walks into Seurat’s room, encouraging you to follow him. In this case, he caught Josh hacking a terminal, and (for whatever reason) decided to try and gun him down.

      2. Even says:

        Or then, the majority just isn’t inclined to explore their immediate surroundings. Like Gruhunchously said, it’s not like he’s hidden behind the Doors Of Durin and nobody in the world can read the runes. I’m not criticizing them for missing out on their own playthroughs, I’m criticizing them for not educating themselves before hand for the show, which yet again lead to annoying-level-stupid things to happen. It’s just 3 minutes of plain awful when Josh first decides to ignore the obvious warnings and things go down the shitter, when nobody even mentions that he was the shopkeeper and especially when Shamus goes on to make fun of the lady in the apartment. It just feels so embarassing to watch. His location was also pointed out multiple times in the comments of earlier episodes where they explicitly mentioned not finding the shopkeeper. Maybe they didn’t read them, maybe they forgot, I don’t know.

        1. Shamus says:

          “His location was also pointed out multiple times in the comments of earlier episodes where they explicitly mentioned not finding the shopkeeper.”

          And when the episode opens with us in a generic hallway, clearly we should remember the directions given in comments five days earlier and… somehow know that this is the guy we said we didn’t know about?

          Also: I did encourage people to relax about this sort of thing last week. We ARE going to miss things. This is particularly true given the fact that most of us finished our play-throughs half a year ago, and have played many other games since then.

          1. Tse says:

            I just think things like this make the show funnier.

          2. Even says:

            “And when the episode opens with us in a generic hallway, clearly we should remember the directions given in comments five days earlier and… somehow know that this is the guy we said we didn't know about?”

            Well obviously it wasn’t enough info so I guess not. I didn’t mean to say you should automatically pick it up from there, for it would probably be better to draw a map or make a video in your case.

            It’s just that you did have some forewarning. My original point was that it is my belief that this could have been avoided with some additional “research”, if you will, as would have some bigger mishaps in the past. Whether you want or care to do that is of course up to you.

            It’s just a more of a general issue that’s been bothering me from time to time. I can live with you skipping or missing things, that 3 minutes just brought back some bad memories.

            1. Daemian Lucifer says:

              I like the show being spontaneous because it contrasts my style so much.Unless I really want to be surprised by a game,I research the hell out of it before I even start.I read walkthroughs and guides so that I can get all the hidden stuff and maximize my builds,because I enjoy getting 100% on everything.Rarely do I go into a game blind these days.Human revolution I did semi-blind(Ive read all about the augs and how to maximize them),and bastion was the last game I remember going in fully blind.So I really enjoy that spoiler warning is a complete opposite to that.

              1. Gamer says:

                This. I watch Spoiler Warning to see a guy Role Play as a drunken moron while he and two-to-three others comment on a game. If I wanted a perfect run, I’d do it myself.

                1. Even says:

                  “If I wanted a perfect run, I'd do it myself.”

                  Did I say I want one? Part of the overall charm of the show for me is the way it’s a little sharp around the edges. I don’t believe in absolutes when it comes to personal preferences and there’s nothing fundamentally wrong with their style. For me most of the enjoyment just comes from the commentary and the hosts’ interactions with the game and each other. With the massive Dead Money vibes in the start, it’s just like it’s 2011 all over again and I’m in hell watching those episodes on a never-ending loop. The horror.. the horror..

        2. Daemian Lucifer says:

          Yeah,but the hubs in the game are all mazelike.You get to this one by going through the window.And the npcs do tell you that he is in the building,but not “the one you can access only through the window”.Its great that the game encourages exploration,but it also encourages different play styles.Just because Josh is playing it differently doesnt make it bad.Its quite refreshing actually to see something so radically different work out.

          1. Eric says:

            Okay, I take issue with you calling the hubs “mazelike.” No, they aren’t long straight corridors, and they aren’t big arena areas, but Eidos place very frequent and obvious landmarks (statues, important buildings, changes in lighting and tone, different sounds in different places), and everything is compact enough to find quickly. Hengsha is definitely a bit more complex, but there are detailed maps, quest markers, and so on to help you find your way. I guess some people are bad with direction, but if a city block with an alley running through the middle qualifies as a “maze” to you then I wonder how you leave your house without getting lost.

            I know you didn’t really mean to imply this, and I don’t mean this as a personal attack. Still, I think the general aversion of actually making players figure things out for themselves and learn to navigate based on obvious signs rather than floating GUI elements and GPS devices is part of what’s really hurting level design in games these days.

            1. Daemian Lucifer says:

              I didnt mean like a real maze,but the structure of these levels is weird.Yes its just one city block with a street going through it,but its a street with a bunch of twists and turns,and hidden vents and holes all over.I mean one of the most useful paths through detroit(for me at least,and judging by one of the previous episodes,for the spoiler warning crew as well)was through that vent beneath a building.Also,you do enter that building only through a window,and the door is blocked.Thats just odd.

              But dont get me wrong,I like that this game encourages exploration.I want to see more of that.Having non linear levels is a great thing.

            2. Shamus says:

              “Mazelike” as in: Many branching paths. This street leads to a pair of alleys. This alley leads to a pair of doors. This door leads to a pair of hallways. This hallway leads to something interesting.


              It’s really easy to overlook something like this, even if it isn’t a “maze” in the sense of a confounding puzzle. I don’t have a problem with game designers leaving things for us to find. I don’t have a problem with needing to explore to see things. I just complain when people insist that X is easy to find because they passed it twice in their play-through.

      3. Eric says:

        So what would have been good game design? A big sign that says “illegal weapons for sale”? A quest compass marker pointing you directly to him? Putting him in the middle of the street, stationed at a lemonade stand? Seurat is not a major character and is by no means necessary to enjoy the game. He sells some optional items and that’s it. If you aren’t interested in exploring then I really don’t see how you can complain about not being given the rewards for exploring.

      4. Thomas says:

        @Guy I really really hope you aren’t the sort of person who complains about modern day games spoon-feeding you things and not trusting you enough to explore and discover on your own :D

  10. BenD says:

    WELCOME CHRIS. Don’t think this means you’re off the hook making new Errant Signal. I expect more of that stuff right away. *snap snap snap* :D

    1. Arvind says:

      I second this. We need more of everything!

      1. rayen says:



  11. Daemian Lucifer says:

    Finally,Josh drank something!I was starting to get worried.And he knocked out a merchant,who you all have been wondering where to find for the last few episodes.Splendid display gents!

    I was disappointed that wall punching was always lethal.But its a useful thing to pick up to see which walls are breakable,and then break them with grenades if someone is behind,because those just knock them to the ground.

    You can ghost this place without stealth,it just takes a lot of patience.And save scumming,unless you are replaying it.

    And now that youve recorded this block of episodes,I have to ask because I cant wait for tomorrow:Did Josh pick up the rocket launcher?And did Shamus break down completely at that point?Come on guys,tell me,I HAVE TO KNOW!!!

    1. evileeyore says:

      “I was disappointed that wall punching was always lethal.”

      Technically it isn’t.

      Granted the only time it isn’t lethal is when used on the bathroom wall from the outside to take out Double-T. In that one case it just knocks him.

  12. Some_Jackass says:

    New person added midseason? …I never asked for this.

    Chris does seem to be strait out of season 1 though what with him having long periods of silence…I’m sure he’ll mesh real well once he gets his SW baptism by fire out of the way…by which I mean subjecting him to an avalanche of puns…

    And I love the occasions when Josh stops to save his game, announcing that he’s about to attempt something silly and ill advised.

    1. X2Eliah says:

      Sounds like he didn’t really have much chances to say anything on-topic / relevant, really, what with the constant unrelated backchatter. Let’s see if this improves after a few episodes…

  13. Grudgeal says:

    And just when I thought this show couldn’t get better.

  14. Dev Null says:

    I could never stockpile enough indignation to get a good rant going, and so I let the game slip by in silence.

    Oh no! I tried to warn you all, but noooooo… you said “Shamus’ righteous indignation is a renewable resource”. Now the latest round of wrestling with Windows Live has drained his powers! Quick! Uhm…

    System Shock 2 is being remade as an all-brown Wii platformer with extra DRM and the story re-written by Peter Molyneux.

    Better yet?

    1. Bubble181 says:

      To be fair, the new SS2 does have really cool quick time events.

      1. Dev Null says:

        How could I have missed that?

        Oh right; I was busy pushing X to not die.

      2. Shamus says:

        Of course, it would be called System Sh3ck. And would have a space marine as a protagonist. And it would be linear.

        Okay, I need to stop this. This is terrible.

        1. Irridium says:

          You forgot to mention its new visceral multiplayer mode!

          1. Rasha says:

            Which will be mandatory naturally. Also there will be constant jokes about the computer villain from 2 even though she’s also your problem now. She’ll be right in your face from the beginning with no atmosphere. Not to mention all the rpg elements will be stripped out completely and the game will be made much more easy. I’m talking free cloning chambers easy. The plot will make no sense at all and will somehow manage to involve you collecting little sisters and becoming a big daddy.

            Oh you know like that other game that was much better than system shock 2 released a few years ago… Seemed to involve plasmids and genetic engineering… Oh that’s right Bioshock was better than System Shock 2! Have I brought about a rage induced coma yet?

            1. acronix says:

              Not to mention that SHODAN will plug herself into a giant mecha whose body is a giant monitor broadcasting her face. And to defeat her? You plug your big daddy suit into a twin mecha that was in another chamber for no reason, run up to her, have a series of QTEs, run to the other side of the corridor, activate a set of large levers (right for the size of your giant mechamonitor) before punching her again. You´ll have to repeat that five times before her health bar drops to zero and you are subjected to a last QTE. If you fail in this, you´ll have to repeat all the battle over.

              The RPG elements won´t be completely gone: there´ll be an upgrade system for weapons that is made completely redundant after you get the machinegun that shoots bullets propelled by rockets that explode into a thousand carnivore rabbits.

              The survival horror element will be present by an incredible ammount of a hundred cat scares that consist enterely of different generic corpses dropping, being thrown or dragged at you after every single corner you take.And you´ll have a plucky Comic Relief companion speaking to you over the comm, yelling needles exposition about the old games while the mad electronic apliances try to kill you.

              Lastly, the UI will be really big and littered with hundreds of innecesarry information, like your blood type, your favourite song and the last time you watched Oprah. All this to make sure your immersion is utterly destroyed (Just in case the evil toaster robots that shoot lasers and speak with the voice of Mickey Mouse isn´t enough to shatter it.)

              Actually, those Mickey Mouse toasters would REALLY be scary. I guess they won´t put that in.

              1. Rasha says:

                0: You sir are an artist no wait an evil troll. Actually a beautifully articulate… evil person who I will never be quite as evil as. I didn’t even PLAY system shock 2 and I want to kill something now…

              2. Dude says:

                Dude, they already made this game. It’s called Dead Space.

                1. acronix says:

                  Technicalities! When has an overused idea stopped developers to make a game? See all current generation shooters, or every sport game ever.

          2. And when you push a button, something awesome has to happen! Button = Awesome!

            1. krellen says:

              You know, that game design idea actually works in Saint’s Row 3.

        2. Nawyria says:

          System Sh3ck

          You just made my day sir.

        3. Sumanai says:

          No, it will be a “re-imagining” and therefore be called just System Shock.

          1. Daemian Lucifer says:

            No,it will be syshock,to appeal to the teens.

            1. Sumanai says:

              Or if they go the Syfy -way, Sysho.

  15. Jakey says:

    The wall breaking upgrade is actually pretty nice because there’s at least 3-4 Praxis kits hidden in Detroit and Hengsha sewers that you can smash your way into, making it a net profit to take this augment since it’ll basically pay for itself while still in Detroit.

    1. SyrusRayne says:

      Can’t you just explode the walls, though? The aug highlights the area, of course.

    2. Someone says:

      You can actually break those with pistol shots, if you notice the crack in the wall.

      I also like how you can use the augment to break through walls but can’t destroy boxes with it. At one point I found myself unable to quietly break a wooden crate blocking the way because I had no silenced weapons and Jensen can’t into melee.

  16. rayen says:

    you as far as DNF goes, somehow letting it slip by in silence seems to be the norm, and the more shameful passing. as if we all knew this was coming, and couldn’t get mad about what we all deep down knew what was going to happen. it’s like getting mad about game somehow justifies it’s exsistence. anger proves there was a good idea in there somewhere it just wasn’t used correctly or at all. anger validates that there was somewhere a expectation that this could have blown us away. DNF, the silence, the cold shoulder if you will, shows that we knew this was gonna be bad either as a duke nukem game, or as a video game as a whole. and it was bad, somewhat suprisingly, in both ways. its two diametricaly opposed parts (enemy spam shoot’em up, with light misogyny and campy male machisomo and realistic cover based shooter mechanics against aliens seperated by spectacle set pieces)fighting eachother for attention and ending up in an unplayable mess…
    oops… didn’t mean to go on that long… uhhhh /rant i guess?

    1. Currently DNF is 75% off on Steam… still don’t recommend anyone buy it. Pity I already have…

  17. Eärlindor says:

    You got Chris to join the show? EXCELLENT! :D

  18. Tse says:

    Welcome Chris. Since you’re replacing Mumbles I have 1 question: Do you like boobs?

    1. Destrustor says:

      Cannibal boobs?

      …That would be a great band name, actually.

      1. Tse says:

        Topless cannibalism party!

        1. Dante says:

          That’ll be the name of my GWAR cover band.

  19. False Prophet says:

    I think you can use iron-sight/scope shooting from cover, but you have to pop out first.

    1. Deadfast says:

      The only way you can use iron sights from cover is if you lean out and let go of the cover key. Which makes it rather hard to get back into cover again.

      1. MrPyro says:

        Not sure what you mean by saying that you have to release the cover key; you can certainly use the scope while still holding down the cover button.

        Unless you mean that you’re running out of fingers on the mouse/controller.

  20. Actually wasn’t all that bothered by playing a security guy muscling around Detroit with grenades for my boss because that is basically the same character I played when I used to play Shadowrun. Just a different city. In fact, DXHR comes across as a really good spiritual successor for a single player game.

    1. Someone says:

      Did your Shadowrun boss also refuse to provide any money or equipment for the covert missions you were running for him?

      1. He was stingy yeah, but I wasn’t head of security or nothing :P

      2. Daemian Lucifer says:

        You wont get any money if you dont ask for it.

  21. guy says:

    I grabbed the punch through walls augment. It’s actually pretty common to encounter cracked walls.

    Shotgun blasts to the face are the #1 argument for Dermal Armor, which combines with eliminating recoil and sight-bobbing while moving to transform Jensen into Gordon Jensen.

    Incidentally, a running theme in various comments and reviews is people saying that pure combat is a bad choice because it gives less XP. My experience doesn’t gel with that at all. Sure, you get fewer augments, but you also need fewer augments and can start picking up random junk once you reach Hengsha, just like ghost runs.

  22. Dmatix says:

    NOoooo the show is ruined forver!!!111

    Just kidding of course. Good to have you on board Chris. I really like your show. You should talk more, you have interesting stuff to say.

  23. Campster, my man, what’re ya doing? Ya had like three lines total in the whole. Gotta learn to dig in there man. Can’t just hang on the backburner waiting for dead air. MAKE an opening. Don’t be afraid to go over their nonsense. You need to be the WEDGE Antilles of the conversation, if ya know what I mean. Or if you’re more a Trek fella: ENGAGE!

  24. littlefinger says:

    Josh. Take all button.

  25. RTBones says:

    First – welcome Chris!

    Second – the punch aug…I didnt get it until past mid-game. I was always afraid that if I punched a wall, some bad guy would be behind it and I’d lose my ghost points. As far as I know, the only use for it is/was breaking walls.

    Third – had to laugh, as I remember this section. It was notable (for me) for sneaking under the initial platform, waiting in the gap for the conversation between the two thugs to happen, me using the stun gun on both, then pulling the bodies under the platform.

    Fourth – I had one thought as Josh got closer and closer to death each time he went through this section: ELMO FACE!

  26. Wolverine says:

    I played stealth character, I got Pacifist achievement and honestly don’t know where I lost Foxiest of the Hounds, but after the first boss I kept one SMG, upgraded it to the max and stockpiled ammunition, so that the next boss would not catch me unprepared. Sure enough, it came in handy…

  27. Gale says:

    Oh jeez, when you said you had a fourth commentator lined up, I didn’t think you meant Chris Franklin. This should be fantastic. I mean, not that I don’t love listening to Rutskarn trying to drown out the sound of gunfire and cursing with his vast array of fart noises, but Chris is a really sharp guy, and I’m excited to hear more from him. Hope he doesn’t have too much difficulty finding his voice in the group.

  28. silentlambda says:

    Awesome to have Chris on the show, I look forward to hearing more of his thoughts on this game and Deus Ex in general. Which is why I’m glad we’re getting to the DRB transmitter to stop their… errant signal… because Highland Park comes next. You all know what that means, right?

    Boss fight time! :D

  29. Reet says:

    “Oh no! Somebody changed my internet show and now it's different! Change it back! I fear things that are new and strange!”

    It’s funny because nothing really did change. Shamus and Ruts were still talking about nothing related to the game and Josh was still hacking terminals for no reason, failing at stealth, gunning people down and then getting shot himself. Not a complaint, just an observation

    Chris didn’t really have much to say, although to be fair the chatter was a bit impenetrable. Hopefully we’ll get more out of him later.
    Also, Welcome to insanity Chris! The bar is to your left, the elevator to the rooms are on your right and we hope you enjoy your stay!

  30. RCN says:

    Welcome to our deeply dysfunctional family, Camptster. Loved your videos and have much the same opinions on Half-Life. Wonder if you’re ever gonna touch on other genres than FPS (not counting Bastion… that I haven’t watched yet because I didn’t play Bastion yet).

    In fact, I’d love someone touching Acti-Blizzard’s Starcraft 2, if at all possible.

    That said, back to Deus Ex: German Revelation. I had waaaaay too much difficulty into infiltrating the gang territory. I didn’t have double takedown or invisibility yet (just finished taking hacking 5 and was starting to upgrade my running and jumping, if I’m not mistaken, so I could navigate faster. I always tend towards upgrades that improve my movement and lessen the length I have to walk around, ever since I played Might and Magic and beelined for mother-fucking-FLY).

    This part have a lot of duos and quite a few trios walking around, making ghost very, very difficult. Nothing a bit (or a lot) of patience can’t solve, since they all eventually split for a bit, but it is a tough part of the game.

    1. Daemian Lucifer says:

      “Deus Ex: German Revelation”

      Do you have some list of these you are reading from?It is quite amusing.

      1. tengokujin says:

        Deus Ex: Ghost in the Machine’s list of alternative names are made up on the spot, as far as I can tell.

        1. RCN says:

          I’m just making them on the spot, yes. It is the fault of the developers really, to use such an easy to abuse subtitle. I know a fair bit of linguistics, and I assure you, they couldn’t have come up with easier words to exchange if they tried in the English phonetic repertoire.

          1. Daemian Lucifer says:

            Well you should make a list,to have it preserved for the future generations.

            1. Destrustor says:

              Deus ex: future generations

  31. Hey guys! Thanks for all the kind words!

    I’m still getting used to the notion of on-the-fly Let’s Play style commentary, so forgive me if I’m simultaneously a little quiet/mumbly this week and/or tend to go off on longish diatribes when I do talk. I’m too used to working with (what I let pass for) a script, I guess. Hopefully, though, I’ll soon be keeping pace with Shamus, Josh, and Rutskarn!

    The meat of DXHR has yet to really hit us – the game’s pretty plot heavy, and the game doesn’t really open up on that front for another hour or two. And the most interesting gameplay combinations don’t open up until you’ve unlocked a bunch of abilities with Praxis points, so stay with us – it’s only going to get more interesting from here!

    1. Daemian Lucifer says:

      And once you get settled in,they can finally drag you into their half life 2 playthrough.And it will be glorious!

    2. Dude says:

      It’ll be interesting to hear what you have to say without all your facial expressions.

      In fact, fuck it. Intercuts of his WTF face every time Josh uses a Q takedown; we demand it!

  32. rrgg says:

    Anyways, a couple of days ago I found a new game to play while watching this show. Every time Josh crawls through an air duct mentally add in a “BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM!” sound effect like there should be.

  33. Zerotime says:

    *walks past a storage locker*

    “I don’t know where all these storage lockers are!”

  34. Zaxares says:

    1:25: … WAAAAHAHAHAHA! I didn’t know it was possible to piss off Seurat like that. XD If you kill him, does that mean you forever lose out on his store? And does Greg Thorpe ever say anything about it?

    3:35: Yeah, that was one major failing with the DX:HR AI. While NPCs outside will sometimes run away (while yelling appropriate words) if you start shooting near them, NPCs indoors appear to be confined to a particular map area and will not leave it. (This is especially easy to see in places like the sewers.) They will rather just cower on the ground in complete silence instead of behaving the way you’d expect rational, if terrified, humans to act.

    4:42: … Well, I guess that solves your problem of having alerted all the MCB’s prematurely! XD

    5:51: This is one of those points where you scarf down candy bars like mana potions in Diablo, Josh. ;) Put them on an easily reachable hotkey, and then just mash the button after every takedown.

    6:50: Yeah, I never touch the Machine Pistol either, Shamus. It has a horrible recoil and is pretty inaccurate to boot. The Combat Rifle is better in just about every respect except clip size, and you can improve that with gun mods.

    8:31: Nah, he drank an ENTIRE BOTTLE OF WHISKEY in less than a second. If a bit of blurred and distorted vision is all he gets, I’d say he’s FAR from being a lightweight. XD

    9:15: Hacking while drunk is VERY difficult. The screen swerves around so much that it’s hard to see where and what you’re clicking on. Which makes sense, really. :P

    11:18: Hmm, not quite, Shamus. The NEWSPAPERS are repeated quite frequently, since there’s only 1 issue per hub or major area you’re in, but most of the tablets and e-mails are unique.

    12:48: No, the Wall Punch augment can be put to use a lot more frequently than that, but I agree that it feels pretty meaningless because there’s always another way to get around. The biggest benefit of the Wall Punch augment is that it gets you into some secret rooms (which also gives XP), including the infamous Sewer Porn Room in Hengsha.

    16:02: Yeah, unfortunately you were spotted JUST as you knocked him out, which gave him a chance to shout out and alert his friends. Incidentally, this side-quests where you need to remain undetected? It’s ridiculously easy if you go through the DRB territory prior to getting Jenny’s quest and knock out/kill ALL the enemies there first. They’re still dead/unconscious when you come back. ;)

    1. Daemian Lucifer says:

      “Hmm, not quite, Shamus. The NEWSPAPERS are repeated quite frequently, since there's only 1 issue per hub or major area you're in, but most of the tablets and e-mails are unique.”

      Its not per hub,but per section.It cycles usually when you finish a major quest.

    2. Rax says:

      “including the infamous Sewer Porn Room in Hengsha.”

      googleing “hengsha sewer porn” as we speak, I’m a little bit scared to look at the results.

  35. Gamer says:

    I remember when I did side-quests in Derelict Row. The first time, I had already explored the area (I have a condition where I have to explore everything. Yes, this does make playing Bethesda games difficult.) and knocked out every single person in the place. It was easy to come back and complete both the side-quest and the main quest later because I had no opposition. I remained undetected because no one was conscious enough to detect me.

    That does beg the question of how no one noticed that they themselves were KOed.

  36. Thomas says:

    I had the same problem with the punch through walls augment. Playing a really stealthy ghost character who leaves gaping holes in the walls just didn’t feel right. It does actually help with ghost, but it feels so wrong. I got it and then tried my hardest to avoid using it in every situation. I still feel guilty when I used it in Heng Sha just to break down some random public alleyway wall. At least normally I could justify it as causing damage to bad guys stuff

  37. Museli says:

    Having watched most of Chris’ channel today, I feel qualified to state that his presence on SW is A Good Thing. Welcome to the show, Chris, I hope you have as much fun making it as we all do watching it :)

  38. Lunok says:

    actually as long as you tell the ATF and pay the $200 tax per grenade per year you can have all the grenades you want

    1. Daemian Lucifer says:

      Have,or carry them concealed with you?

      1. Lunok says:

        in states the require a LTCCW if you have the LTCCW you can carry them in states that don’t have LTCCW you can just carry them in theory.

  39. Marlowe says:

    This should really be sub-titled Death of a Cybernetic Arm Salesman. It disappointed me to see Josh fail to acquire 25% of 47.5 million space bucks. He could have won the game on the spot through buying out David Serif and taking over the company.

  40. Bryan Bridges says:

    I saw Chris Franklin’s review of Duke Nukem Forever. I hated it. Here is why: Most feminists are intelligent, reasonable people. A small percentage however advocate a bigoted definition of misogyny. They hurt feminism by doing so. And this review perpetuates it.

    This review argued that it is misogynistic for Duke Nukem to have casual sex with two women, go to strip clubs and enjoy the sight of naked women, and get casual blow jobs from a glory hole. Misogyny is the hatred or presumption of inferiority towards women. Enjoying the sight of a naked woman and having casual sex is not mysogynistic. Anyone with an ounce of common sense could tell you that.

    If a gay man made a game filled with attractive mostly naked man and a male protagonist who had tons of sex, would we say that is offensive to men? If a women made the same game with a female protagonist, would we say the same? Objecting to the fullfillment of sexual fantasies of consensual sex just because the individual in question is a heterosexual male is in itself bigoted, and that bigotry hurts feminism.

    1. Shamus says:

      So you hated his review because he uses a very, very common version of the word “misogyny”? That seems kind of strange, since his was a game review and not a discussion of gender politics.

      The game IS morally reprehensible, and while I’m sympathetic to your position that “enjoying the sight of women” should not be equated with “treats women like cattle”, this game is probably not the best place to draw your line in the sand. The part where Chris said “I have no words”? That looks like misogyny according to your own definition. Two women are raped, and Duke can only make a lame-ass joke. Then he has nothing to say about their horrific death. You can be a manslut and not hate women. (For the same reason a slutty woman doesn’t “hate” men.) But if Duke’s sexual partners die in front of him from explosive birth as a result of rape and his first response is to toss out a one-liner, I don’t think we can make any excuses for him. And I don’t think the “it was done ironically, as a joke” works either, considering the game is starved for both irony and humor.

      1. Bryan Bridges says:

        I agree that the rape/explosive birth part was misogynistic. What I disagree with is most of the things he listed before that. It just deeply annoys me that he is hurting feminism by perpetuating the idea that feminists are unreasonable with the most of the other points he listed.

    2. Daemian Lucifer says:

      Way to miss the point completely by hanging on to one term.The argument wasnt “Duke is misogynistic in this game,therefore the game is bad”,the argument was “Duke is in this game what he parodied in his last games*,therefore the game is bad”.

      And why are you tying this with feminism anyway?Cant someone have their own opinion without being labeled as a feminist from the get go?

      *Not just a misogynist,but an egotistical prick as well.

      1. Bryan Bridges says:

        The issue is that people who argue that the desire some heterosexual men feel to have casual sex is misogynistic, tend to inherently be associated with feminism, regardless of how accurate that association is.

        Regardless of whether or not the person making that statement is feminist, they are perceived as such, and they wind up hurting feminism through their actions.

        The misuse of the words “misogyny” and “sexism” is a beserk button for me. It deeply annoys me, and tends to color my perceptions towards a work in general.

        1. Daemian Lucifer says:

          Yeah,enjoying casual sex is not misogynistic.But,enjoying casual sex while slapping women around and making rape jokes while the rape victims are being brutally murdered in front of you is.Dont pick apart examples when its the whole that matters.

  41. ps238principal says:

    Am I the only one who thinks the “punch through walls” augment was just kind of an homage to “RoboCop,” in the scene where he “arrests” someone by, well, punching through a wall and dragging him through it?

  42. Fang says:

    Not checked the website in a week or so… COME BACK TO FIND YOU GUYS HAVE CAMPSTER ON. OH! That high pitched girly sound I’m not afraid to have admitted to screaming.

  43. Johan says:

    This was one of the things I really didn’t like about the coverbased shooting in DXHR, you can’t take more than a hit or so before going down

    Realistic? Yes

    Fun? No

    Even JC could tank more than this. And it meant that a single slip up in a firefight had you going right back to the loading screen

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