And the last episode of the week comes to you a day late courtesy of Guild Wars. You’re welcome. It’s an action-packed Let’s Play adventure featuring bad euphemisms by Chris, Rutskarn ruining everything by singing, and me chickening-out at making fun of all of you.
I wonder if Mumbles is going to be mad that we made it this far into the game while she was taking a break…
Trusting the System
How do you know the rules of the game are what the game claims? More importantly, how do the DEVELOPERS know?
The Truth About Piracy
What are publishers doing to fight piracy and why is it all wrong?
Best. Plot Twist. Ever.
Few people remember BioWare's Jade Empire, but it had a unique setting and a really well-executed plot twist.
Who Broke the In-Game Economy?
Why are RPG economies so bad? Why are shopkeepers so mercenary, why are the prices so crazy, and why do you always end up a gazillionaire by the end of the game? Can't we just have a sensible balanced economy?
The Game That Ruined Me
Be careful what you learn with your muscle-memory, because it will be very hard to un-learn it.
301 thoughts on “Mass Effect 3 EP8: Krogan Air-Drop”
If you leave Chakwas on the Citadel, you get a minor War Asset for about 25 points or something. Michel also has some different (and sometimes interesting) dialogue.
Dr. Micheal is also worth 25 points, so it really doesn’t matter who you pick.
Really? I haven’t played the game since the Extended Cut, so I’m just going by the game guide and the Wikia. The latter of which says that Chakwas is worth 10 points, but for some reason I remember 25. So I’m not a super-reliable source.
EDIT: Just hit the end of the episode, so I’ll say this: if Mordin is dead you get a stand-in Salarian that accompanies you up to the curing-or-not of the Genophage, just like you get for Grunt or some of the other characters. He’s functionally the same as Mordin, though without, of course, the dialogue.
I got the same thing for a Legion stand-in. Except it is just Legion really with a slightly different skin and the game lampshades that to hell and back :)
Since Legion is just a collection of Geth programs that is in active communication with his people, why wouldn’t he have a backup version of himself? His ‘replacement’ could plausibly possess all of Legion’s memories up until the Collector base mission. Of course that would make the justification for where you find him super flimsy, since there is presumably nothing special about a Legion system image’s hardware.
I thought it was Legion in many ways, but some sort of VI version of him? I was a little confused about the whole thing though
Okay, I quick review of my save file says that I am talking out of my ass. Apparently Michel isn’t a war asset, only Chakwas is. However, at 10 or even 25 points, it hardly seems worth anything. It does effectively come down to whether or not you prefer old and familiar, or exotic french cuisine.
Chakwas lays the guilt trip on you if you don’t take her along, which is a little unfair.
The stand in is Padok Wiks, the guy who greeted you at the start. He’s actually a very interesting character. Wish they’d done more with him. He’s an evolutionary biologist who’s research convinced him that there is some power in the universe guiding evolution.
That the power might be the reapers never comes up, which struck me as a missed opportunity.
I WANTED TO HEAR THE EUROPEAN JOKE.
Ok,since you asked for this.
As a native noose-wearer, I love that the joke was (supposedly, it’s a joke) invented by a Belgian.
If she were French,there’d be a dozen jokes to be made. (Although there is the man from Lyon in the citadel who is actually pretty interesting to listen to.)
But the Swiss are awesome. They don’t fight in wars because 500 years ago everyone made them promise to stop fighting because they kept winning and spoiling everyone elses fun. And even today, no one attacks Switzerland because everyone has a gun and knows how to use it.
And if she were Swiss, she’d be a nice contrast to Reginald Cuftbert, as the Swiss were the BEST mercenaries around. Those wars they kept winning? They weren’t even their own wars.
If she is a Swiss, considering the amount of pure gold bullion average swiss has on himself, they could use that gold as kinetic impactors.
The mission with Grunt is one that I had a problem with (Where his squad is attacked by the Rachni). It’s where they almost completely invalidate the Rachni Queen decision. If you didn’t save her, then the Reapers clone a more aggressive one. Either way, you can choose this one (either the clone or the original queen if she survives) or kill her off once and for all.
If Grunt wasn’t loyal at the end of Mass Effect 2, then he’ll die if you don’t abandon the Queen and focus on evacuating.
If you saved the Queen before, then she’ll give you Rachni war assets (they help build the Crucible) if you save her again. If you choose to abandon her, then she understands and accepts her death.
If you got the clone by killed the original, then she’ll give you assets at first, and then betray you later, taking them away and doing some damage. If you abandon her, then she’ll freak, but eventually die.
There is some choice and consequence, but I think the cloning of the Rachni Queen seems like a huge ass-pull and is really stupid.
Also, why is previous episode listed as Episode 4?
And Chris, in my first ME2 playthrough, Mordin was the only person who died. Everyone else lived except for him. If I had chosen him to be the escort over Grunt, he would’ve lived. I fixed that in New Game Plus.
Cloning the Queen is dumb, but it’s hard to think of a solution that doesn’t involve completely removing that section of the game, probably for most players (not importing a save through 1 and 2 will result in a default dead Queen). Not saying it made sense, it’s just a sticky situation to work with when the change is that big.
Yeah. I completely removed it in my own re-write. I suppose you could make it that remnants of a scattered Rachni force are what kept Grunt and his squad at bay. You’d just have to skip the choice at the end in favor of learning the consequences of killing the Queen.
Removing the Queen and most of the Ravagers is probably the best approach from a narrative stance, but the gameplay ramifications of something like that are huge. Ravagers are a standard late-game Reaper unit, and they’re a pretty important one, meant to keep you pinned down with heavy artillery. Removing them would inevitably require an imbalance, and whoever was on the wrong side of that imbalance would feel like the game was enforcing right and wrong choices, which you acknowledge must be avoided.
If I had my way, War Assets would be much more valuable in the end-game and serve as more than just a way to enable different flavors of explosions. They would ideally influence the outcome of the ending in a similar way to the Suicide Mission of ME2.
That way, it would be a choice between having an easier time playing through the game or having an extra layer of assistance in getting through the finale.
Of course, we don’t have that ending, which disappointed me.
I think though, that chosing to lessen the number of Ravagers because the Rachni Queen was killed in ME3, or remove them entirely if you killed her in ME1, would reinforce the moral dilemma though, if there was no extra balance.
It would show people that, as a Renegade option, it was the better choice from a “We want to win at all costs” Renegade approach, despite being initially the “Evil” option.
Same with the Krogan Genophage – oh, I guess all the Cannibals would be wiped out.
But then it forces the player to realise that said enjoyment of having an easier fight came *directly* from wiping races off of the face of the galaxy.
And if the War Assets meant anything in game from a gameplay perspective (Perhaps they become squads that join you on the final mission), that would’ve been double. Because now you don’t see as many squads join you in the final fight.
I think a good way to note how something similar in ME3 plays out – if in ME2 you destroy the Heretics, the Rannoch mission becomes much easier to satisfy peacefully, and not everything needs to be checked off. Thing is, the Geth are a weaker War Asset. But, if you mind-wipe them into being like the regular Geth…you’ve lost 2 of a total 7 points you can put towards the 5 point requirement to saving Rannoch – which means *everything* else has to go according to plan for it to go peacefully.
Which is then countered by the fact that the Geth armies are stronger when they join you, *because* the Heretic Geth are now also working with you.
Minor things like that in the game, such that they bias you towards different moral choices, would be amazing in the game.
Otherwise, you’re just giving us two choices, normal and evil. To make them moral quandrandies, there should be incentive to go with both the good and “evil” choices. Tempt the Lawful Good Paladin with pragmatism, if you will.
Though the Heretic geth issue is also complicated by the fact that my Shepards and the game disagreed on what the Paragon option was. :-) My Paragonest Shepard, as a military officer, of course believed that killing is sometimes necessary. But brainwashing and mind control are beyond the pale: that’s for the bad guys like the Reapers, the Thorian, Cerberus with its control chips and wired-up autistics, etc.
As far as she’s concerned, rewriting the geth was the pragmatic, compromised choice that might make things easier (improving relations with the geth majority and strengthening them as potential allies), and destroying them the difficult, costly, but morally right decision. Tiny sliver of orange on her morality bar notwithstanding. :-)
Minor nitpick: The Cannibals were made from batarians and humans, not krogan. Krogan and turians make Brutes.
The Ravagers are supposed to pin you down? The only class I got ‘pinned’ down as was the sniper and I’m staying down anyway to line up shots.
How did you manage it? Ravagers are almost on par with Banshees for me in difficulty, I tend to forget to use cover, even as an adept and they make toast of me if I don’t bunker down. I’m not sure I’ve got their mechaics down pat, because they seem to zone in, but if you roll out of the path they can swivel and hit you
THAT WAS RANDY?!Im as amazed as Rutskarn!
I genuinely thought it was Glitch.
I was sure I could hear Randy, but nobody mentioned anything, so I thought I was probably audibly hallucinating.
I heard the voice and was thinking “Who is that guy and why is no one commenting on him being there? Why isn’t he in the credits? Weren’t they going to reference him as mumbles?”
That indoctrinated Salarian idea is… really good, yeah. It would also give some goddamn variety in enemies, which would be incredibly welcome in ME3. (Yes, I know that ME2 mostly just had reskins of the same 4 or 5 basic enemies gameplay-wise, but reskins go a long way to making the world feel varied.)
Also, was anyone else pleasantly surprised to see some actual reaction from Shepard to the fact that they were brought back to life when you find the logs in the Cerberus base? It even makes an adorably lackluster attempt at handwaving the lack of previous angst as Shepard not actually realising that they’d, well, died. Combined with the fact that I got to break all of TIM’s things and get revenge on Kai Leng for beating me on Thessia by throwing Liara at Tali after I’d been gluing grenades to his face for 5 minutes and it actually made up from the fact that the plot was going to hell even faster than it had before.
To me it felt like that came way too late. We’re in the endgame where the fate of the galaxy is up for grabs. Only NOW do you doubt yourself. It’s also only one scene. It felt like weak-sauce.
It’s still totally inadequate for something of that magnitude, but it at least shows that someone at Bioware realises that yes, dying and being brought back to life should provoke some response.
It ties in to what I said earlier:when someone shows you that they can do better,but yet they dont,its way more infuriating than if they were just incompetent to begin with.
That shouldve been one of the major side things in the second game,instead of that cosmetic glowy stuff.
I see it more that the writers were incompetent in dealing with it in ME2 but someone had a brief flash of competence to write that scene, and it’s nice to see that someone knows better.
Yeah. When we criticise something, we do it because we want it to be better, and it we critique plotholes, it’s because we wanted them to think it through.
To have the writers go “You can’t critique us that we didn’t go this path instead because we totally did think of it – but we decided to go this stupid route anyways.” – that’s when it aggravates us.
It’s like “If you knew it was a stupid idea and are lampshading it, why did you do it?”
Also, was anyone else pleasantly surprised to see some actual reaction from Shepard to the fact that they were brought back to life when you find the logs in the Cerberus base?
I was really annoyed by that scene.
They introduce something really important – Shep questioning who and what she is. And then follow it immediatly by shooting that question down with “Don’t worry about it. It’s not important.”
It felt like Bioware was giving the finger to everyone who complained that those existential questions were ignored in ME2.
I liked it because it seemed like the writers knew that it was a throwaway plot device and didn’t realise or care that it shouldn’t be, so acknowledging it at all was a welcome bone thrown in our direction. The way it’s included makes me think that it was the work of a single writer, so maybe the only opportunity to get that in was somewhere that made giving it due attention impossible.
Problem with most of these “bones” in regards to Shepard is they just make things more jarring if you were ever trying to roleplay or take the writing even remotely seriously. They just don’t work with Shepard’s character development over the series. This specific scene should have happened somewhere between the start and half-point of ME2 for it to make any sense.
In fact, would’ve been great as part of the ending after destroying the Collector Base at the end of ME2 – just have TIM snap and yell at you for a whole minute about these reveals.
TIM: “**** you, Shepard! You’ve always been so short-sighted! I brought you back from molten slag, and this is how you repay me? **** You, I didn’t even trust you enough to give you a proper Cerberus team! They’re *all* just public faces, a show! EDI’s the AI you destroyed back on the moon! You’ve been played this entire time!”
Shepard: “…EDI, lose this channel.” *Turns, walks away slowly*
TIM: “Do you hear me Shepard? You will regret this, I assure you! Nobody turns their back from the Illusive Man, nobody! SHEPARD!” *Cut*
Okay, it probably needs a revision or two, but I would’ve loved to see TIM snap at that end point. Just have him go ballistic at you.
Apart from the moon thing (and that’s more a fancy that) I was shocked that Shepard was surprised about how her crew was chosen. I mean even if it weren’t really really obvious, the Shadow Broker files she reads actually say that back in ME2.
It’s not even particularly sinister. When TIM says she needs a team she actually _demands_ that he let her have familiar faces and people she’s comfortable with.
OOC it’s not a twist to the player either (even if they didn’t do Shadow Broker) because recruitment missions in ME2 ended with a file of TIM saying ‘I’m glad it turned out to be Garrus because Shepard is more likely to cooperate with me’
I just feel like Shepards correct reaction to TIM telling her that stuff is ‘Thank you’
Not only that but it was so poorly written. IIRC, Shepard was explicitly told he was dead in ME2, he just didn’t really react. Now all the sudden he’s being told he’s dead AGAIN and NOW he’s flipping out, wondering if he’s some “high-tech VI that thinks he’s Shepard–oh give me a break. You’re working with AIs for crying out loud and you’re wondering if you’re a “high-tech VI”? The whole thing is so late in coming and completely stupid. Why did BioWare feel compelled to add this?
I also liked that moment. While it would’ve been better had it been reinforced in ME2 or earlier in this game, it was good to see Shepard start to think, “…you know, I never DID get a second opinion about what TIMmy stuck into me…”
I know you’re just supposed to accept what Miranda and TIM says when they claim they didn’t change anything, but you’d think Shep would still have some questions.
The animations around the krogan air drop are fucking terrible
Also the fact that it’s “jumping out of a shuttle about 10 feet off the ground.” It’s really not fundamentally different from landing the shuttle and then WALKING off. Very, very stoppable.
Eh, it kind of shows Wrex’s recklessness. He doesn’t even check how far he air drops before he does it. Sure, they were not very far off the ground this time, but it sounds like he was hoping to do a much further jump.
Ive looked at the outcomes,and while some of the things you did do feature here,mostly they are irrelevant.Whether you keep maelons research or not,whether mordin dies or not,you will somehow still have the cure on your disposal.
However,I will give the game credit because the only way to get both krogans and salarians on your side is to kill wrex in game one.So you have to choose between 2 cool characters,or war assets.If only war assets had any actual meaning this wouldve been a really tough choice between 3 really good options.Though a tough choice between 2 good options is still nice,but not on as big of a scale since it only involves this 3rd part of the game.
However,I will give the game credit because the only way to get both krogans and salarians on your side is to kill wrex in game one.
Small correction: You can’t get one specific Salarian asset (that isn’t really worth much compared to the Krogan assets you’ll miss out on) if you don’t screw over the Krogans, but you can still get various other Salarian assets.
That little touch is something I did appreciate. Wrex is smart enough to figure out you screwed him, but Reeve is too stupid to do the same.
I have mixed feelings regarding the dalatrass. It seems illogical to worry about what the Krogan might do when the Reapers are coming to kill everyone. It also makes no sense to pull support for the only force that seems to be working just because you didn’t get your way.
It also makes no sense to pull support for the only force that seems to be working just because you didn't get your way.
I really loved her comment saying Shep is a bully. It really cemented her being a petualant child for me.
This and the Asari’s stand goes beyond illogical and into pointless stupidity. I feel like these characters are acting the way they do solely for the sake of artificially forcing conflict and tension.
To be fair,saying that we are actually doing something is a bit of a stretch.We are,after all,building something never before heard of,from unfinished plans,that will do who knows what.Oh,and collecting people to liberate earth,somehow.
I don’t find it hard to believe that a diplomat would be whiny, short-sighted and incompetent. Especially in a time of crisis.
For example, the U.N.
I find it odd that the U.N. is often a punching bag for being “ineffective,” yet only has as much intervention capability as its member states are willing to allow it, which is often none. I took an international law course in college and found it amusing how often the U.N. either sided with the U.S. or somehow produced a “neutral” outcome when other great (read: nuclear) powers’ interests clashed with America’s.
It’s only in science fiction that councils of various races somehow have power that comes from sovereignty given up by its members, like in the United Federation of Planets and so forth. Mass Effect is a far more realistic model, assuming other life forms would behave like us.
Yet the U.N. is still somehow a bugaboo for those with invasion fantasies (usually in the United States) involving black helicopters and the like. Go fig.
Yes world politics is a weird place.But we have never faced anything that wants to destroy us yet.The largest threat we had so far was a country bent on eradicating certain races,but merely conquering and allying itself with the rest of the world.
But what if we got some terrorist group bent on destroying all of humanity seizing control of bunch of our nukes?Sure,most all countries would send diplomat to them to try and get their countries exempt from complete destruction,but even before those guys dont return,you can bet that everyone would lend resources to get these bond villains eliminated as soon as possible.
“Ive looked at the outcomes,and while some of the things you did do feature here,mostly they are irrelevant”
That is because, despite whatever the critics might say or what you might hear around, Mass Effect is railroaded as crap and doesn’t give you any matter in any decision that is not flavour. Everything that is plot related is bolted down and untouchable.
We live in strange days, where “freedom of choice” means doing something either in a bad or a good mood, and “RPG elements” usually stand for a leveling system.
I miss Fallout 1 and 2 :'(
I wrote something about how Mass Effect advertised itself as a game about choice, but was actually just the illusion of it.
I think if they came out from the very beginning and told us it’d be about the illusion of choice, people would be less mad.
And much tighter writing could have helped too.
I’m curious, does anything change if you didn’t do Mordin’s loyalty mission in ME2?
Also, Shamus mentioned a flowchart of the possible differences, does anyone have a link to it?
Not having Maelon’s data means Eve dies.
Is that it? Everything that’s going on her is deeply connected to that loyalty mission and the only difference is that you don’t have the data? I know people have been saying that ME3 renders a lot of your choices irrelevant but, wow, I did not understand just how bad it is.
Eve dying is huge though. She’s the only other real positive influence in the Krogan race, without her there is a serious chance that Wrex will be overthrown and there will be a galactic war after the Reapers (well if it weren’t for the mass relays…)
Besides, in Mordins loyalty mission, there were only three things you could do. 1 Save the data. 2. Save the scout. 3. Save Maelon. (4 keep Mordin alive, he’s quite hard to save without a loyalty mission)
Saving the data has a large consequence on the universe, the scout gets mentioned at some point in the game I think, he has a minor role. And I can’t remember what Maelon does, but he’s mentioned and he has an effect. Maybe he helps you out on the Crucible or something
You get an email saying that maelon set up a clinic on omega, I think it also mentioned that he died when cerberus attacked omega, but that he saved a lot of lives or something.
There’s more to the Genophage mission than that, but I don’t remember what all the factors are.
For example, if you want Mordin to live in ME3, then Wrex has to be dead, the cure data destroyed (don’t remember if it matters if Maelon here is dead or no), side with the Salarian dalatrass, conceal the fact you’re going to sabotage the cure, then reveal what you did to Mordin at the end to convince him to not repair the Shroud. Mordin’s replacement may not be susceptible to this–not sure.
I think there are slight variations depending on who lives and who dies between ME1 and 2. I think Wrex comes after you if you sabotage the cure, and you’re forced to kill him, but I don’t think Wreav will do the same. Whether or not you got Wrex’s ceremonial armor in the first game may affect how mad Wrex is at you if you destroyed Maelon’s data. And, of course as mentioned, Eve dies if you destroyed the data in ME2.
That’s a lot of maybe’s, I know, and there might be something I’m missing. Wish I knew where to look all this stuff up.
You can get both the salarians and krogan if you saved the council in the first game, and either Thane or Kirrahe are alive; the salarian councilor won’t die when you-know-what happens, and he’ll pledge to the war effort.
Whee, my comment got a mention in the episode!
Yeah, this is the… second… least plausible instance of a Cerberus attack in the game.
Considering the plausibility of Cerberus attacks as a whole, that’s saying a lot.
invading the Citadelwas so stupid it HURTS.
I disagree there, at least the Citadel had a mole, and it was portrayed as lacking in defensive forces (maybe they all got sent off) and it’s a sensible target and it has the seat of alien government, which Cerberus dislikes. It’s also just one jump away
Here? There just isn’t much reason to attack, and it’s completely ridiculous that Cerberus would have the resources to do it. This is the homeworld, that’s beefed up by the navy, at a secret base guarded by people expert in intelligence. And the timing is really coincidental.
Heck, TIM was even a little less indoctrinated at this point probably. Even with indoctrination, it’s hard to see how they managed to convince him that this attack was a good idea. Especially since they’re trying to assassinate the female.
I guess Cerberus would hate the idea of curing the genophage. But they forget to mention that or make it an issue here or anything. It’s just Bad Guys! And it totally ruins the characterisation they’d built up with TIM. They have reasons for him to be a bad guy, but by not showing them and pulling crud like this you spend most of the game believing there’s no justification but the writers are completely out of ideas. If they’ve done the work why don’t they show it?
… which is to say I really object to Cerberus being involved here
I’m glad we’re all agreed on how dumb this is at the very least.
Though I want to save my grievances with whole Citadel thing for later.
I still dislike it, just much less than this one. But we’ll get there soon enough I guess :D
Re: “The Mole”…
Udina betray everyone for Cerberus, exactly? I’ve played through the game twice, and I don’t think an answer for that ever comes up. Was it hand-waived as indoctrination at some point that I missed? Is it just suddenly a thing he does, to clumsily force the plot to move forward?
No. He was desperate. That’s the only thing they ever say.
He didn’t quite thing it would be as severe either, I think he was expecting a more polite switch of power, like a show of force to get the council taking human interests seriously. He’d always been capable of that.
I also seem to have imagined that earlier games hinted at Cerberus ties, because I haven’t managed to find anything. He was always extreme and pro-human enough to be just in reach of those organisations..
Oh no wait, found it on a forum. One of the Shadow Brokers videos in ME2 shows Udina meeting with Cerberus people.
There’s also a scene in the second book, where a Cerberus spy says he’d prefer Udina over Anderson when all of the other characters in the room said that Udina seemed slimy, possibly showing that Cerberus thinks Udina is more susceptible to their bribes.
Neither of these things are good as reasons in that even I wouldn’t expect people to watch obscure videos in some DLC :D (or read the books) but at least it shows that some of the people involved with the series felt that Udina was/could have Cerberus connections before ME3
Yeah. It really should’ve been better foreshadowed in the game itself. It comes way to far out of left field.
Not just the invasion, but the sheer scale of it and lack of any real motive beyond let’s be dicks and piss off the other races, further ruining any chance humans might have at negotiating.
I think originally he had intended take control politically of the Council’s army and then send it to Earth (At least, I seem to remember the Codex mentioning that.).
When the council didn’t authorize it, he worked with a Cerberus front probably to try to get funds and an army, then organized the hit on the councillors. The idea being (At least in the “Saved the Council in ME1” part that doing so would remove any political block between him and the Citadel forces.).
IIRC, there’s no confirmation of him ever being indoctrinated, just desperate.
I’m OK with the attack you mention for one reason: it genuinely caught me off-guard. I had plans to come back in, check in with everybody, I had a shopping list all planned… and then wait, what, the Citadel is under attack?!
It was still stupid because we know from the first two games that C-Sec is huge and very well-trained/equipped (although they did emphasize in the second game that it took a heavy blow in ME1). It doesn’t make sense to me that they could be taken down that easily, especially on the Presidium.
Honestly, I’d have to disagree. They’d of course have to write more than
“Cerberus attacks the Citadel, everyone derps,”but an attack there CAN be plausible. Such as: Udina uses his considerable influence as a Councilor to enable a series of “refugee ships” carrying Cerberus operatives and equipment to be overlooked by security. The smuggled-in forces then attempt to seize the Council as hostages in order to prevent the considerable fleet and C-Sec forces from making reprisals against them.
This, however, is stupid, and unjustifiable. I find it extremely hard to believe that the Salarians, the race that specifically specializes in SECRECY AND INTELLIGENCE, has had their super-duper-secret research facility (which, mind you, holds a yahg, the ass-pull species that is so secret no one outside top officials in the Council races know about them) discovered by Cerberus. On top of that, this facility is on their HOME PLANET, and apparently an army of Cerberus guys and shuttles can swoop in almost completely undetected by the race that specializes in SECRECY AND INTELLIGENCE.
I guess TIM is just better than the Shadow Broker now, and the Reapers gave him super-stealth technology that goes with his super-cyborg-corruption technology. I just literally pulled that explanation out of my ass and it’s more explanation that is given in-game.
The story of Mass Effect 3. It could have worked if only they put more thought into it.
It’s possible the ship(s) he used to house the shuttles housing the army was powered by a similar stealth system to the Normandy, having already acquired plans when building the SR-2, and being able to green-light it by saying “Yes, it very much *does* work.” After all, it *did* work agains the Collectors/Reapers. It should very well work against the Salarians.
I mean, your ship didn’t get spotted earlier either, until your shuttle appeared on deck (Said shuttle apparently uses the stealth systems of the Normandy, just with a smaller core).
As for finding the stealth planet, one could presume they traced your FTL trace, if not just having an indoctrinated mole give them the co-ordinates from the Citadel.
Of course it’s plausible. The base is a hive of mad science, so Cerberus just has to get in on that action.
I think the thing I find implausible is the LACK OF DEFENSES at this super-important Salarian base. You’d think they’d have some of those AA guns that could wreck the Normandy or something.
I think Rutskarn was just making up for the lack of Mumbles being here talking about boobs.
And really,the whole cerberus shouldve been replaced with reaper supporters,either fully indoctrinated ones,or the ones who are just turncoats.And the second game shouldve been…well,completely different.Some funding from cerberus in 2 couldve worked,maybe a ship not as good as normandy,but having a terrorist organization with this amount of resources is just stupid.
Cerberus should’ve been more covert; make it more in line with its ME1 fluff, as a covert organization. tIM is manipulating things while stealing stuff to fulfill his plans.
I still like Cerberus, I think they could have worked if they’d just been used better here. All the side quest missions where you fight Cerberus work really well and don’t feel badly justified. Maybe a smattering of the main quest missions have the same justification. Haven would have been fine, attacking Cerberus base was fine, Citadel would have been okay if it was an assassination mission (even what you fight just feels like an assassination mission), but a takeover was ludicrous. This is ridiculous and ever other part they appear in the main missions was absurd
I liked the idea of Cerberus. I could see them as something like Timothy McVeigh’s militia movement, or the early Nazi party. A cabal of academics and scientists with xenophobic racial supremacist hypotheses, disillusioned First Contact War veterans with a hate-on for aliens borne of their combat experiences–probably with their own “stabbed in the back” mythology, and a handful of wealthy backers with something to gain. Have the System Alliance’s inability to get things done not the result of gross incompetence on their part (as the games seem to suggest) but because the partisan bickering between Cerberus’ xenophobia/human supremacy and more open and tolerant political blocs prevent the SA from making critical decisions quickly.
Instead, we have a group that basically goes from being something like a small far-right survivalist/militia movement in ME1 to COBRA or HYDRA by ME2, complete with limitless resources and the ability to stand toe-to-toe with the forces of nation-state. And with an enigmatic leader with no real rationale for his actions nor his endless resources.
I think TIM has a pretty decent rationale all the way through except for the missions I’ve mentioned. I’d always felt his motivation was pretty clear and enjoyed all the scenes with him in, in ME3, just regretting that you have to go through so much Ceberus stuff without that aspect being present.
I thought their ME2 power level was okay, it doesn’t fit well with 1 I guess, but taken as fresh it worked nicely and without the missions I dislike I think their power level would be okay here. Reaper assisted it would be sort of Team Rocket level bad guys instead of the almost Reaper level presence they became here.
What annoyed me is that they’re set up as well-intentioned extremists in ME2, and then they’re suddenly full-on Stupid Evil by ME3. It explains it at the end (nice to see there’s an actual explanation) and it fits with their appearance in ME1 but for about 75% of the game I was wondering if the mooks I was mowing through were people like Donnelly and Gardner.
We never do see Gardner again, and we do know (from that one guy’s journal) that they put Cerberus volunteers through the process, not just Sanctuary refugees. So it’s entirely possible that he was one of the mooks Shepard plows through.
I still dont get why mordins voice actor needed to be changed.Its a bit distracting.
I agree. The high pitch of Salarians help to make it less noticeably, but it is still quite jarring when I remember the voice from Mass Effect 2.
I haven’t even played ME2, I’ve only watched the Spoiler Warning, and his voice seemed off even to me.
The new VA didn’t bother me. The flanderized character did.
“Had to be me, someone else would have gotten it wrong” was not Mordin’s mantra and he didn’t previously sing while he worked (he said it was something he did for cross-species understanding -ie: it was a hobby). I’m happy to use the “had to be me” line as a final send-off, and maybe as a recognition symbol early on, but the constant usage grated on me.
Despite this, I like the character in this game, it’s just not quite Mordin.
The voice actor was probably changed because he was busy doing other work at the time. I don’t think Bioware just said “let’s change the actor to mildly annoy a couple of fans!”
Didnt he say that he wasnt busy,but they never called him?
What’s particularly bizarre is that they didn’t even bother to handwave it as ‘salarians’ voices change when they’ve only got a little while left to live.’
I never even noticed the change honestly…only found out after.
I didnt know until these comments :D
To be fair, I knew ahead of time it wasn’t the same actor. That may have played a part.
It becomes more obvious when you compare the two. The new voice comes off as lower and slightly more gruff, like he catched a cold or something.
Oh god,you guys have just figured out why humanity is so special!Reapers want to harvest humans in order to make toupées!
Cerberus set up us the bomb!
thanks for that.
It’s a bomb! We must all get ready now!
Some days you just can’t get rid of a bomb.
Dammit man, stop spoiling the ending to TDKR!
I think Disney beat him to it:
AND THEY ALL LIVED HAPPILY EVER AFTER!! :D
Personally I really dislike film grain, bloom, lens flare, hdr, colour filters and all that crap. I like to be able to see the friggin game. Not have my view obstructed by pointless and obnoxious effects. If I can disable it, I do it and never look back.
Damn you Skyrim for making me wait until the toolset was released before finally letting me remove that ridiculous fake-hdr [/random gripe].
About Traynor: While I didn’t have any problem with her, I did feel like a lot of what she did could have been done by Liara. It would give Liara something to do as she doesn’t do anything shadowbroker’ish now beyond standing in front a bunch of screens (Yeah, we’re told she does things, but we never got see it).
Indeed.Instead of focusing on all this random bullshit,how about we get a bunch of artists to actually animate something pleasing to look at?You know,like they were doing 15 years ago in the 2d era.
What do you mean? You must want Micheal Bay lens flares and explosions. Everyone loves those things. You’re everyone, therefore you love them too.
What? That’s what Hollywood thinks! Are you insinuating that Hollywood is wrong?
I don’t mind hdr. Implemented well, it really makes good scenes look way better. Colour filters, again, can be really useful when used in moderation (not to colour the entire screen in urine as New Vegas did – yuck).
A week ago I would have said that lens flares are useless, but. But. You know, I really really liked how the devs used lensflares in Sleeping Dogs. It was prominent but not overly obtrusive, and really helped nail that hong-kong-action-movie feeling. So here, just like with hdr and filters, it’s not the effect that is bad, imo, it’s how the developers have used it.
Motion blur and film grain, though? They can go die in a fire. Especially “film grain”.
I think Fallout 3 is the one with the universal piss-green colored filter they placed on everything. Was not appealing at all.
New Vegas installed a orange filter occasionally replaced by a brown or green one.
*shrug* For me the yellow was more grating.
To each his own.
In either case, the Fellout mod that removes the filter is a godsend.
YES!!! God bless the maker of the Fellout mod.
I had always thought that they implemented film grain in the game as way to improve the performance of the game on the consoles. Anti aliasing is expensive, after all, and having constant semi-random super tiny motion really helps your brain overlook jagged edges or oblique angles on textures. Oh, and I suppose that it could also be some sort of artistic thing, but what do I know about that.
Lens flares should go die in a fire, though.
It can look okay I feel, but the new way of using it is completely ridiculous. In the new Star Trek film it was taken to such a high level of absurdity that I actually started laughing.
I though it would have been taken as granted that it was ‘too much’ when you can’t actually see the picture anymore
Is it just me or did that explosion seem pathetically small given the size of the bomb? Also, putting it towards the back and in full view seems really stupid (although it is Cerberus, so I guess that’s about right). Either putting it right next to the door so it kills people outside the elevator or putting it out of sight so people get into the elevator and die might have made it actually useful.
IIRC this bomb looks more or less exactly like the ones in ME1, where Saren tries to destroy the colony with 3of them.
And my goodness is Cerberus fast and well informed on supersecret salarian bases.
Yeah, that’s one of the issues that bugs me with Cerberus and is why I mentioned indoctrinated STG as a much better option.
Basically, Cerberus apparently has massive spy networks in the upper levels of every government, almost as good as the Shadow Broker. There are two huge problems with this:
1) The Shadow Broker is obviously and blatantly not on anyone’s side, while Cerberus is a xenophobic terrorist organization. How do they get recruits with security clearances in alien governments to serve as spies?
2) Cerberus is not really very old, even compared to the Shadow Broker. Establishing vast intelligence networks takes time.
Although I agree with your extremely valid arguments, I have a nitpick about your first point.
Remember the original Mass Effect? Cerberus is an Alliance black ops organization.
A bit of plot which is promptly completely forgotten by every other piece of media regarding Cerberus.
And both ME2 and ME3.
I did a little writing before, trying to figure out a way to reconcile ME1 and ME2 (functioning under the assumption that we had incomplete or “spun” information each time) and came up with the idea that they were a separate organization, but the Alliance secretly began funding them, and then once their true intentions became clear (assassinating people, crazy biological experiments, etc.), they stopped supporting them. I drew up a hypothetical timeline that I felt fit pretty well the facts presented in both games.
Then ME3 came in, and half of what I came up with didn’t work anymore. So… yeah. Cerberus has DID on an organizational scale.
I read a summary of all this novel/comic/whatever stuff about TIM. They seem to contain lethal doses of ME2 writing and TIM was once a alliance spec ops guy.
And if I understood it correctly his team died. One of them went rogue.
But he left the alliance shortly after the First Contact War, so no sense in calling Cerberus an Alliance organization.
I think it’s mentioned in the ME2 Codex that “The Illusive Man” was a nickname given to (whatever TIM’s name was) by the Alliance during its black-op days but that’s about it.
His real name is Jack Harper, just for the record.
Quick,delete that comment before Rutskarn extracts some puns out of his name!
Quit harping on Rutskarn so often. It’s not like it’s his fault that his favorite passtime in groan-worthy puns.
You might as well hijack his spot on the show at this rate.
:( Finding out this stuff about TIM is sad. Jack Harper is an incredibly humdrum unoriginal name and it spoils the mystery. Proper TIM backstory should be hinted with little detail that you’re never entirely sure are true
To be fair, I’d have no way of knowing that if not for the Wiki. I don’t think many people read the Mass Effect comics.
Of course, his backstory is very detailed in those comics. We also know that he was just a mercenary until he was indoctrinated, unlike Josh.
I think his name pops up in the Shadow Broker files. I don’t mind the name. It doesn’t need to be anything incredible. What the frak an “original name” anyway? He could’ve been a great character, but wasn’t because of BioWare being BioWare, but he’s a man like any other.
He still is a great character! I just have to not read any of his backstory and stick to ME2 and ME3 stuff exclusively.
And an original name is anything but Jack :D
There’s even a Jack Harper on that list already. It’s no offense to the name Jack, Tom’s not an original name either, there were 4 in my class at school, 2/5 in the house at Uni were Tom’s and I’ve never had a period of life where I wasn’t friends with multiple other Thomas’ but Jack is pretty much the go to name for an action hero, at least TIM bucks the trend in that respect.
I highly doubt they had planned to go into his backstory at all.
And you’re right. Jack is a highly unoriginal name and one suitable to a generic action hero. Sadly, in the comics, he is exactly that for the most part (if the wiki is anything to rely on). Until he comes into contact with Reaper artifacts, he’s just another pretty boy hero.
In fact, from reading it, his indoctrination was a complete accident. The Reapers were intending to indoctrinate his friend and turn him into a husk. He tried to pull his friend to safety and was indirectly indoctrinated as a result, which is why it was somewhat weaker than most indoctrinated.
Grunt should be dead in this playthrough, by the way. You sent him to escort the crew back to the Normandy while he wasn’t loyal so that he wouldn’t be in the hold the line section and Miranda would die.
Well, there’s that comment about how while ME1 is more the Space Opera of 70’s-80’s, ME2 is more in style of the Sci-Fi of the 90’s and ME3 is more the new Battlestar Galactica.
Of course, this also means that Independence Day is the inspiration for ME2. Make of that as you will. And I’m not sure who here is familiar with Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, but there’s definitely bits of that in ME3. Not sure if Shamus is still interested in Anime, but I’d get the feeling that he’d have trouble getting into it since he’d see it as having a strong anti-intellectual message (it’s actually deeper than that however).
Maybe in the sense of being more based on and imitating real-world concerns and military technology/systems, but my knee-jerk reaction is still, “Battlestar Galactica was never this stupid!”
I saw the last season of Battlestar Galactica, you can’t fool me. The comparison is apt.
Considering BSG finale
“Let’s throw out all our technology into sun, because why not + god did it”I’d say resemblance is uncanny.
It’s especially insulting given that one of the biggest tropes of sci-fi, if not human history is “those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.”
A post-war society built by humans and cylons would have been FAR more interesting. Even if they’d gone with an epilogue that showed us reaching some kind of Singularity or Matrix-like dystopia, it would have been preferable.
Hey look, Cerberus mooks have invaded. Again.
I remember playing this section of the demo and I still don’t understand what Cerberus hopes to accomplish here. Do they want the Krogan female? If so how will screwing over the Krogans help them in their plans to control the Reapers?
You sound like you’re one up on me. I’ve never figured out what Cerberus was trying to accomplish in any of the three games.
At this point, TIM has the idea about reverse-indoctrinating the Reapers (or whatever). I guess they want to kill Eve to keep the krogan out of the war (and therefore preventing the alliance between the humans/turians/krogan, although wouldn’t that just mean we had humans/turians/asari/salarians alliance instead?), but… yeah. It’s not very clear, is it?
Isn’t it obvious?
The Krogans are filthy Xenos and their deaths are mandated by the God-Emperor of Mankind (as the Illusive Man likes to think of himself as).
Seriously though, I half-expected Cerberus mooks to shout cliche jingoistic Space Marine battlecrys like DEATH TO XENOS and IN THE NAME OF THE ILLUSIVE MAN or whatever. Seems obvious to me that at this point that TIM wants to be the GEoM.
Come to think of it, the whole organization plus the universe would be about bazillion times more interesting if they’d be just semi-religious extremists. In terms of darker themes, the ME universe is shown to be somewhat tame and it could have definitely spiced things up to show more bad sides to things and get a little more serious. When you listen to Javik’s stories about the Prothean empire, it’s like a whole another universe, when you have things like a race killing all of their children and young in a sacrificial ritual to try to appease the Reapers to no avail. One reason I like the character is because he keeps breaking the norms all the time. His history and almost whole character is just such a massive contradiction when compared to everything else, which is probably the biggest reason I like him enough to forgive his ridiculously extreme views and sometimes non-sensical opinions.
Funny, I wrote an article about that exact same idea of having the Salarians be indoctrinated so that we wouldn’t have this stupid random Cerberus invasion. I didn’t notice it when I first played, but the second playthrough made me consider for a second and think “WOW this is stupid.”
1. Rutskarn sounds like a Salarian.
2. Were your chickening out that untold Swiss joke, Josh? You cannot really offend an European* with this sort of a joke, because every European country has a collection of rude jokes about every other country it shares a border with and then some, and may the PC craze never root them out.
Now, what were you going to say about the Swiss? >:-)
*Unless s/he’s pathologically oversensitive.
Funny about the Swiss. I just read a book called “Air, Earth, Fire, and Custard” by J.W. Holt. In it, a character meets Audumla, the Cow of Heaven. Basically, she’s an ancient god-figure, and she looks, to the character, like a Swiss cow you’d see on a butter advert.
It makes sense to him that the universe could have been created by something Swiss, given the orderliness of time, matter, and so forth. Not humans, he thinks. They’re far too chaotic.
Michel has a different upgrade for your Medigel. One makes your medigel work better (which on Insanity is HUGE, since it sends it from 2 bars to 3), and one gives you another medigel slot. Forget which one is which.
Does anyone else notice the Previous for this one is Episode four?
…There was film grain in the first Mass Effect?
I think it was even on by default when you first started it. At least I think it was so on the PC version.
It was. I recall turning it off pretty quick because I thought it was just weird. Could be that I just haven’t watched enough old space operas but I never had that association with old films. While on the other hand, in Left 4 Dead it never really bothered me much. It never felt too much out of place and it always sort of blent into the background with the dark colour schemes.
…and actually helps you pick out things in the darkness. So it’s even useful!
I watched a video once that the L4D team did about how they carefully tweaked the graphics and lighting to get the old film look, as well as using it to give the player visual cues (it drops to black and white when you’re near death, etc.), while at the same time helping guide you through the maps. A huge amount of work went into it, and yeah, it really shows.
In the PC version, at least, yes. I didn’t notice it at first, but it’s one of those things I couldn’t stop noticing once I noticed it.
Michel also has a much more appealing accent.
That’s an excellent youtube snapshot for the video, btw.
i had mordin die.. all others lived.. and he died randomly too.. bleh.. so sad.. near perfect runthru…
It’s not quite “random”, it’s just that Mordin is first on the chopping block if the average ‘strength’ of the people you leave to hold the line isn’t high enough.
Taking him with you takes him out of the running.
You can also send him on the escort mission which works quite well.
I’m surprised how hard he is to keep alive though, because the two ways he won’t be in the last stand, he needs to be loyal to survive. It makes a lot of character sense, but it’s mad to think the best part of ME3 is the easiest to miss
Or sending him back with the rescued crew.
I remember a developer interview for ME3 boasting about how they finally learned how to animate hand-shakes, and how we’d finally see them.
And then we don’t, or we only see them if we don’t blink throughout all 30 hours of gameplay. Even Bioware’s insignificant promises went unfulfilled.
They’re are several handshakes in the game – a lot of them are paragon interrupts. Wrex and Javik immediately come to mind, and I’m pretty sure there are several more; e.g. pretty sure there’s an Anderson one.
I’m pretty sure all of them look terrible, probably even worse than any prior handshakes we’ve seen.
I should also mention that like, Shamus, I also like the offscreen handshake workaround. Keeps my disbelief well suspended.
Not me, just for the reason that the hiding of anything related to hands and/or feet make me think that somehow Rob Liefeld is involved.
For some amazing handshake shots, check out an australian show called “All Aussie Adventures”.
all handshakes have their own zoom in shot, but never match up to the scene currently shown (ie scene 27 has the handshake from scene 18 etc)
For things like Dr. Michel, you probably should’ve checked out some of the investigate options, since one part of Spoiler Warning is doing and showing parts of a game that most people don’t see. Then again, in today’s world of youtube compilations, maybe that’s no longer all that necessary or even reasonable. :/
Regarding the difference in tone between ME1 and 3: Yeah, that’s pretty much what happens when, by your third installment, you virtually have a whole new time of writers than when you first started, as opposed to one lead writer with a definitive plan or outline from start to finish.
I don’t know how writing teams work for games in general, but this just looks like a mess to me:
(This is a piece of a comment from Smudboy’s blog.)
The Lead Writer: Drew Karpyshyn.
Other Writers: Luke Kristjansen, Chris L’Etoile, Mac Walters, Patrick Weekes
The Lead Writers: Mac Walters and Drew Karpyshyn (and yes Walters’ name is listed before Karpyshyn’s in the credits).
Other Writers: Malcolm Azania, Chris Hepler, Brian Kindregan, Luke Kristjansen, Chris L’Etoile, Jay Turner, Jay Watamaniuk (Does this last name look familiar?), Patrick Weeks.
The Lead Writer: Mac Walters.
Other Writers: John Dombrow, Sylvia Feletekuty, Chris Hepler, Ann Lemay, Neil Pollner, Cathleen Rootsaert, Jay Watamaniuk, Patrick Weekes.
While the all the Leads were the same over all three games with the exception of Mac Walters becoming a lead writer FOR ME2 and Drew Karpyshyn jumping ship AFTER ME2, the writing staff got bloated for ME2 and then everyone except one person from ME1 and one person from ME2 jumped ship for ME3.”
Regarding Sur’Kesh and Tunchanka: it looks like I’m going against the grain here, but I REALLY hated this section of ME3. It just felt like it was full-on contrived railroad of stupidity, how Mordin suddenly decides to leak info to Wrex and wants to cure the Genophage after all the characterization we saw for him–he was ADAMANT that, given the crappy situation, the Genophage was the right call. Now all the sudden Mordin has this mentality of “Ohhh, I’m an old man and I want to ease my conscious before I depart from this world–also the galaxy looks kinda screwed anyway.” I see this as not only a major character break from Mordin, but also an incredibly selfish thing to do. The Reapers may win, but we don’t know that. And if we win we will have another Krogan rebellion on our hands. You have a warlike species poorly introduced to a modern society that was used as a tool and then put down–and their solution to that problem was more fighting. These folks have an axe to grind, and two idealistic krogan leaders (Wrex and Eve, assuming you saved the cure) are not enough to keep them in check.
Further more, curing the Genophage would not actually contribute to the war effort, it just makes the krogan feel better about themselves. Sure, they can “pop them out fast,” but they still need to be grown, trained, equipped, and sent to whatever battlefield they need to be in at a rate that is faster than is physically possible, especially considering how quickly husks can be produced. If that’s the case, than Warlord Okeer’s cloned army from ME2 would’ve been a vastly better deal. And that’s if we want to be overly generous and say that ground troops matter. They don’t. Not in the grand scheme of things. It’s a war against REAPERS. Krogan have no fleets to speak of, we’re just putting them on ships we already have (and are probably struggling to acquire).
Shamus is right, we needed more middle options or something for this whole Genophage scenario. One of the best and most complex issues in the ENTIRE franchise has now been simplified to a binary “For/Against” system. Choices that have carried over from as far back as the first game (an impressive feat) have all been rendered for naught–we HAVE to do this to progress the plot.
I don’t take issue with the cure option, I take issue with this being all they give us (or you HAVE to screw the Krogan over and kill Wrex). Honestly, I feel that this whole questline would’ve been SO much better if it was a character side mission like the ones you find for Grunt and the Rachni, or Jack. (Actually, I’m really disappointed the Rachni didn’t have a larger presence on the stage, but that’s another matter).
PS: Oh yeah, and Cerberus’s reason for attack the STG base? Yeah, they don’t have one. It really is just “for the lulz”.
I also think that Wrex’s actions and dialogue in ME3 is out of character. Wrex in ME1 and ME2 always said that it wasn’t the genophage that was killing the krogan, but their stupid cultural reaction to it. Wrex was all about needing to change krogan culture to let them become something better than what they are, without abandoning what they were. Changing that to ‘me want babies now Shepard, cure me my genophage!’ is really shitty direction and writing, IMO. (They could possibly have still done it if ‘characters being lured away from their ideas by a fantasy hanging in front of their eyes’ were a major theme (since I also see that same element in Mordin), but it’s not, and the game’s dialogue is never intentionally presented with such a tone.)
To be fair, Wrex got information that the Genophage had been cured in some Krogan from Mordin. It is hard to pass up the cure to something like the Genophage, so he seized his opportunity to do something about it.
I felt Wrex was a little out of place, but given he was willing to die over it in 1, I’m not really suprised he pushed so hard here. Gives him more support from the clans to lead a war too.
Mordin was more established, the lines you were quoting were said in a manner of him trying to convince himself than him believing it. His whole storyline in 2 is based around this, it’s subtle and easy to not see, but the reason he was on Omega was because he says he struggles with the actuality of his actions and wanted to do some small scale good to atone. He talks about being lost, seeking everything, religion, work, relaxation to distract himself from the guilt of what he’s done. He can rationalise it, but he was never able to convince his mind of that rationalisation. When he sees what Maelon does, he’s excited at the idea of a cure and in many ways wants to keep it, but was just shocked at the unethicalness of how it was done. He was willing to do your suicide mission, because he wanted to do something more wholesome with his life than what he’d done before and the weight of the genophage was worth death to deal with
I think the surprise and OOC isn’t that he didn’t want a cure, because he always has and he’s always been guilt ridden, but that his heart one over his brain eventually, which doesn’t seem like Mordin. But then he was nearly dying, so we’re looking at someone whose passed a lot more years than a human in the same time and his work with Eve gave him a hope that the Krogan society can be stablised
Which goes back to my point about it being selfish and pointless act, in addition to it being OOC.
It wasn’t selfish. He didn’t do it because he felt guilty. Instead he felt guilty because he decided that the purely rational decision wasn’t justifiable.
It sounds weird but its true. Example: UK public sector pension are Â£7000 which will be paid out for on average 15 years. So we pay more than Â£105 000 for 15 years of life, a lot of which is likely to be spent in poor health. So if we could save someones life under the age of 50 by an operation that needs less than Â£105 000 then logically we should make an old person destitute to do so (very hypothetical situation)
… the point is somewhere the maths has to stop. And what with seeing Eve and Mordin’s experience in life, he decided the maths had to stop here. Especially since he was comparing probabilities of deaths, hypothetical chances of war against actual war and actual death. It’s not being selfish to draw a line somewhere
Would have edited: I’m not sure again, I still haven’t come to a point where I’m comfortable on the practical – moralistic scale. Whatever the case I think Mordin made an unselfish moral decision, it’s just his idea of what counts as moral changed in a way I’m not yet old enough to judge
I actually agree with you on the Mordin thing. The Shadow Broker’s files said him joining the suicide was “an obvious attempt to clear his conscience.” He’s been struggling to deal with this guilt for YEARS. The dam finally broke and he couldn’t take it anymore. He now thinks of his role in strengthening the Genophage as the biggest mistake he’s ever made in his whole career and wants to correct it.
At least, as long as Wrex and Eve are alive. Reeve can go fuck himself.
No. Mordin’s action was incredibly selfish. It is selfish because all he’s doing his trying to soothe his conscience at the expense of everyone else in the galaxy. I don’t like to repeat myself and my arguments too much, so as I said before a cured krogan race will not help against the Reapers in any way. Assuming we win the war, the krogan WILL over-populate; they WILL overflow into other colonies (and eventually start to seize them); there WILL be another rebellion; and if the other races aren’t overrun first, the krogan WILL be put down again, maybe even without the benefit of another Genophage. I don’t care what the game says, two idealistic krogan are NOT enough to keep the rest of their ENTIRE and ever-growing-faster-than-anyone-can-comprehend race in check. The krogan are like children or cavemen with bombs. THAT is why Mordin is acting selfishly. He’s only thinking about what makes him feel better and not what is in the galaxy’s best interest. In a situation like this you HAVE to be cold and pragmatic. You HAVE to look at it as numbers and a bigger picture.
Yeah, it sucks. Yeah, the Genophage shouldn’t of happened. But the salarians never should have “uplifted” (it is much too positive a term for what they did) the krogan, but what else could they do against the Rachni? How was the galaxy suppose to know they would encounter the Rachni? That’s why it’s ethically grey. There were no right answers to any of the problems. So we deal with the situation given.
Curing the Genophage may be morally right in its own vacuum, but not when it’s at the expense of everyone else in the galaxy.
That is why I saved the Rachni too, so that they could both be a check on each other in the future.
Because that plan couldn’t possibly go wrong could it? =P
Don’t forget having the Geth at the ready in case the other two don’t cooperate.
The cured Krogan will help in ground battles not because they’ll be able to reproduce quickly enough to bring more warriors to the war, but because as Wrex indicates while on Earth, they can safely abandon their planet for the time being because they know the female Krogan will safely repopulate the race. It’s a morale boost. If a Krogan knows that his death on the battlefield will have been in defense of a thousand of his children, he’s probably going to defend better. Every loss means that they become more likely to lose the fight.
As for the Rebllions…Wrex makes political notes on the Citadel according to the news reports that their efforts in the war are an indication that they should have an embassy on the presidium. But beyond that…they have the respect of Commander Shepard for spear-heading the return of their population, and there’s potential use of Rachni space for both Rachni and Krogan to live in. Not to mention the Terminus Systems, which will be weakened at the end of the war as well – they could be coaxed by a citadel fleet to allow for population worlds more easily.
Oh, and with the Reapers gone, there’s plenty of un-marked Relays out there that they can open at will now – I mean really, what’s the worst that could happen that’s worst than the Reapers?
That’s nice and all, but it means nothing in this war. I don’t care how hard some giant lizard fights, it means very little against REAPERS. If we want to stop Reapers we need bigger, better, ships, guns, and tech. Like–gee, I don’t know–Thanix cannons, Blackstars, or the Klendagon Weapon
or the Collector Base >.>
The Terminus Systems don’t actually belong to the Council Races. Even in their weakened state I don’t think they could just walk up and say give us your worlds for the krogan. The krogan could technically do it I suppose, but it probably couldn’t be sanctioned by the Council with everyone getting dragged into another war (which I’m sure they’d be sooo anxious to do), and in order for the Council to look the other way, the krogan technically can’t have an Embassy. I’ll be honest, I dunno, but that’s what I think.
In addition, even if that were to happen, the krogan WILL outgrow their territory eventually and overflow into others. They can’t be kept united forever, and their nature insures they will probably try to conquer others.
Errr… the Relays were there before the Reapers showed up? :P And there are Council laws and conventions against opening relays and random ever since the Rachni Wars.
Complete and total economic and government collapse on a galactic scale with the chance of rebellions, wars, and chaos? :P
“The Terminus Systems don't actually belong to the Council Races. Even in their weakened state I don't think they could just walk up and say give us your worlds for the krogan. The krogan could technically do it I suppose, but it probably couldn't be sanctioned by the Council with everyone getting dragged into another war (which I'm sure they'd be sooo anxious to do), and in order for the Council to look the other way, the krogan technically can't have an Embassy. I'll be honest, I dunno, but that's what I think.”
Humans are doing it, and *they* have a council member.
Maybe not as forcefully as the Krogan would try, but…
Errr… the Relays were there before the Reapers showed up? :P And there are Council laws and conventions against opening relays and random ever since the Rachni Wars.
True, but if the Reapers are defeated, they’ve almost certainly guaranteed that the Relays won’t encounter anything tougher.
Plus, one thing I hadn’t realised – the Krogans basically are the strongest foot soldiers, having defeated the Rachni before – why *not* let them expand into uncharted territory?
Complete and total economic and government collapse on a galactic scale with the chance of rebellions, wars, and chaos? :P
Would already happen regardless of the Krogan Genophage Cured.
Actually we don’t know how Reaper culling/eradicating works. So calling krogan entirely useless would be premature. Bear in mind Reapers got significant ground presence for some unfathomable reason (I assume they have other uses other then being there for us to shoot at).
“Actually we don't know how Reaper culling/eradicating works.”
I never said the krogan wouldn’t be useful in a ground fight, just that in terms of Reapers, it won’t do anyone much good.
On the other, the Krogan do help by alleviating the ground battle on Palaven and allowing the Turians to concentrate on the space battle more. The more Krogan you rally the more Turians you relieve the better their ships are wrong. (also theres a loophole here, that if the Krogans are useless fighting ships, than the Turians should be able to kick their arse in any civil war)
I also believe you wrong about the Krogan, the Salarian position is that the tech was given to them before their culture could learn to deal with it. Krogans have had many years to advance as a culture and we have already seen (in 2) that not only is Wrex succeeding in uniting the Krogan, but that he’s wise enough to understand how to make them believe in his ideas too. What’s more the ancient ruins show that the Krogan have the potential to change as a society and support other viewpoints.
Galactic resources can handle the population, Krogan are hardy and can live on tougher planets than others, the wars were their immaturity wanting wars, not actual need for space, what’s more colonising and settling rough planets will give the Krogan the opportunity to sate their need for challenge. And once they’ve got colonisation underway they’re going to need a lot more Krogan farmers etc which will need to a readjustment of priorities.
All the pieces are there for the civilisation to come together again, they just need a strong (powerful) leader who will push them in that direction, and Wrex has shown himself to be ruthlessly efficient at forcing the Krogan into the direction he chooses.
Earlindor Sorry I didn’t convey my exact thoughts clearly. What I was trying to say was we don’t know how Reapers choose what to cull and what to destroy. Are they committed to culling? Is it a need for them? If so Krogans are more important than they seem as a ground force.
Wrex was behaving a little weird, but at the same time I’m not sure. Yes, he wanted to adapt krogan culture, but he was still sensitive about the subject and saw the Genophage as a sterility plague. When he heard Saren was working on a cure, he still wanted it until you talk him down, making him realize Saren didn’t have the krogan’s best interests in mind.
Actually that brings up something else: given that talk you have with Wrex in ME1, why wouldn’t he be leery of the idea of a cure now? Wouldn’t he question whether or not the Krogan would be turned into tools again only to be sterilized yet again?
Actually, that brings up another thing. I can’t remember which of Smudboy’s videos it’s in, but he talks about the inconsistency of the Genophage in between ME1 and 2 where in 1 (and in 2 and 3 as well) their is the mention of countless stillborn children, yet in ME2, Mordin talks about it altering fertility rates, which implies the prevention of proper fusion of sperm and egg all-together. So which is it BioWare? I guess the former since stillborns are consistently brought up, yet the fertility rate thing is occasionally brought up too. You can’t have both BioWare–one or the other.
Oh here we go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=PL22DEF15C8FFA22A2&v=pVa3hKWQFgk#t=187s
(Can’t edit comment for some reason.)
The guy does actually have good points once in a while, but I still have trouble agreeing with him on his ideas on the Suicide Mission. Mainly that Samara is a master of all forms of warfare and that she should be a master tactician capable of leading a fire team. I sort of understand what he’s coming from, but it doesn’t seem in-line for a character like her and his reasons are fairly shaky.
Not sure what that has to do fertility rates and stillborn krogan, but yeah. :P
Sorry. Just remembering his other videos…
Samara is a lone wolf whose rarely ever worked with any other people and has shown little capacity to understanding their thoughts, her rules are rigid and unable to grant space for other people. So she knows her tactics sure, but she’s got no skill in applying them nor ability to inspire and lead others.
If someone lets fear get the better of them, whats she going to do? She hasn’t had to deal and overcome fear in centuries. So yeah I don’t think she should be a leader :D
I didn’t. They were consistent with his reaction in ME1. When he believes Saren has a cure, he’s willing to fight you to get it–even if he thinks the krogan are being stupid about the genophage, he still wants the genophage gone. And in ME2, he works very hard to fix the bad cultural attitude toward the genophage, so I don’t think it’s unreasonable by ME3 that he’d believe the krogan were ready for it.
Besides, the situation had changed. They needed the krogan to be strong to fight the Reapers. The asari and salarians might be whining about what would happen after the war, but Wrex is pragmatic. I doubt he cares much about what could happen after the war so long as the galaxy actually survives that long.
And curing the Genophage solves the Reaper problem how? :P
There are a few things. Up above, I mentioned morale support.
It’s an important factor – as Wrex mentions in ME1, the Krogan became mercenary when they realised there was no hope for their race if it kept having stillborn in excessive amounts. It’s the one thing I feel the Salarians never realised about it – the Krogan are still violent, but now they lost any sense of defensive psychology – if they have no chance of starting a family, why should they ever worry about the few who can? Might as well just get credits.
The Genophage Cure will pretty much effectively just unite the Krogan (An important reason you want to avoid Saren having it) under the roof of whoever cures it, and as Wrex wants to spearhead the cure mechanism so that they are led under him (As opposed to led under Saren, the Salarians/Turians, or even really Shepard; he only dedicates his troops because he trusts Shepard won’t abuse them.). This also is kind of a political move, as since Wrex is significantly less violent and wants the Krogan to be peaceful to avoid a Genophage re-activation, it works to the public safety to leave it in his hands. Someone else might
have gotten it wronguse the cure to raise Krogan under a banner to fight off Citadel Space.
Beyond that…they reproduce quickly. Which may not mean anything *right now*, but it means that if the Cruicible fails, and the Krogan are the last standing, they can repopulate the galaxy with a second wave of ground troops. Hopefully someone raises them to space flight capability and militarises them so Wrex can lead them. In this case though, the argument that if Wrex is dead that the Krogan will go Rebellion wild again…is based on the assumption that mostly everyone else is dead. Or mostly dead. The Krogan can reproduce more troops at will.
Furthermore, the Krogan now fight stronger and more sensibly, since now they have a future to look forward to just as much as anyone else. Wrex is essentially saying what every other race asks Shepard to do, “Make this fight for Earth personal enough for us to care.”. Though he’s doing it to the Turian Primarch about the fight for Palaven. Otherwise, they’ll fight for credits.
I wonder if the Reapers have credit-transfering capabilities.
And I talked about how GROUND troops, regardless of giant lizardessness, means next to nothing against REAPERS. :P
How is this important? All Wrex said the krogan had to do was focus on breeding for at least one generation. Having their “defense psychology” certainly didn’t stop them from trying to conquer everyone before. :P
If we’re talking about against the Reapers, then they’re really not much better off than anyone else anyway.
This is not a fool-proof plan. How many times do I have to say that one or two krogan idealists are NOT enough to keep a war-like repressed war-like species with an axe to grind in check?
That… is a REALLY bad plan. The krogan are TOTALLY the next logical step after the Crucible. HOPEFULLY they can be militarized after the galaxy is beaten down? Nevermind weapons I’ve mentioned countless times in these comments throughout the episodes that would be infinitely more useful.
Cutting to the heart of the matter, the only reason we’re trying to get krogan support is because the Primarch wants it for some reason, even though I’ve already explained what feels like COUNTLESS times how that makes NO sense! The plot is forcing us to do this, instead of making it a side mission like with Jack or the Rachni (actually I argue the Rachni should take precedents in the main plot since they did in the first game and the Genophage has always been a side note, but that’s a whole other discussion).
But under him the culture of the Krogan has changed and is continuing to do so, the talk is about how they are ready for a cure, implying they were not before hand.
Considering he valued it more than his life in ME1 I don’t think it’s out of character.
One may think the krogan are not ready for a cure, but that is only one’s opinion, saying it is out of character for characters to have an opinion different from yours sounds silly. Maybe he’s wrong and the krogan are not ready, but thats not how he sees it.
Noooo! It’s “conscience”! Now I can’t fix it! Daggummit! D:
It seems like you could easily avoid another Krogan Rebellion by simply not giving the Krogan their own ships. The over-population of their own planet might lead them to destroying themselves with another nuclear war or something, but I can’t really imagine them constructing their own ships to invade another planet.
You mean the planet that has tons of derelict, crashed, decommissioned spaceships lying all around ready to be salvaged for parts?
Oh, does it, I didn’t know; I suppose the Krogan might be able to lash something together then. Although, why does it have a ton of derelict, crashed, decommissioned spaceships lying around?
Could be remnants of the krogan wars, I guess. The Grunt recruitment and loyalty missions from ME2 in particular showcased all the shipwrecks the planet had.
I think the Krogan respect basic mechanic skills as fair as instrumets of death goes. There vehicles in 3 looked fairly decent. Someone suggested Krogan almost suicide capsules to actually get them on the ground.
Grunt recruitment was on a different planet. Technically a trash planet.
As for Tuchanka…I have this image of them riding out of there with thresher maws.
EDIT: After watching that video again…I can’t help think…How bad would indoctrinated thresher maws be for the fight?
You know… having not played Mass Effect 3 and not seen the Krogan female, I was expecting something… different. Like, bigger. The size of a Shadow Bowser. Because Tuchanka was a crazy murder planet and until the Krogan invented guns the leading cause of death was predators, why couldn’t the Krogan females be the bigger sex? I mean, who is the one ostensibly going to be guarding the young Krogan from predators?
Ooh, and then there could be a scene where a Krogan male meets a random Shadow Bowser and he kind of has the same reaction as a human does to an Asari? “Why did the universe just make something to turn me on?”
That wouldn’t work because even krogan are attracted to the Asari. Two space hooker species would be too much for one galaxy.
You mean the same reaction that a human has to a Shadow Bowser, right?
Mumbles: “I just want to stick my hand in his mouth”
And then everyone agreed.
Argh! The stupid, it burns!
“Outside communication has been severed! We’re cut off! Secure all data to offsite location!” or words to that effect. If your comms have been cut off, IT CAN’T blat the data to offsite backup. All you can do is take a data dump with you as you bug out! Did NOBODY object to the sheer idiocy of that line?
I’m not seeing the stupid in this.
You can excuse that with the connection to the offsite backup being seperate from regular communication channels. Regular communications via radio (or whatever the ME universe uses) could be severed via jamming, while they can still send data to an offsite backup via good old fashioned hardened wires.
THEN WHY CAN’T THEY USE THOSE TO COMMUNICATE?
Because maybe the offsite backup target is an unmanaged/buried solid state device with some wires and basic firewall on it, and nothing else? How do you communicate with an array of storage units? What do you tell it to do? Spin their write/read heads faster so the night cames 0.0000000001 seconds earlier?
Perhaps they were doing exactly as you suggested and are gathering drives containing valuable data for when they extract. The phrasing of the order suggests that is what they are doing in fact. What is more egregious is that this top secret government laboratory complex doesn’t have a single QEC, the unjammable communications device that everyone seems to have access to now.
Or perhaps the “offsite location” is the euphemism for “burn barrel.” Or that the offsite location cannot easily be accessed from other locations. The important thing is to get the data off their computers -recovery can happen later.
I loved it when Shepard narrowed her eyes and said “Was I?” Her voice is the best part””it’s like she knows she’s being cheesy and ridiculous.
It’s one of those very knowing conversations where each party knows exactly what’s really is true or not, but goes along and doesn’t say it anyway.
Wait a minute, actually how does Josh have Kirrahae? My ME2 default save had him dead and he wasn’t in either the ME2 import or non-import ME3 save for me.
They really needed to have a better option for default save. I figure once you’ve played though the game a certain number of times or won a certain amount of trophies, you should be able to go into a lot more detail when you create a new save. Exactly who lives, what loyalty missions were done at least.
Because the ME3 default save is just rubbish. Everyone dies, everything you knew and loved in ME2 gets spit out in a wreck in front of your eyes, because you failed to save them. For example, in that bit Chris mentions, if Grunt was loyal he survives that moment. And it’s the same for all the sidequests, the only default sidequest that doesn’t end in a horrible death is Jacob, because for some reason he gets to live in default settings. (Although to be fair with Jacob, it’s hard to see how doing his loyalty mission put him in a better less distracted state of mind )
I always hated how the PS3 version essentially locks you out of Kirrahae and Conrad Verner. Those are some of the funnier and cooler characters inthe game and I was mad that I couldn’t get them.
Get the PC version.
EDIT: Nah, that is really bad then. They *are* the funnier parts of the game, and the game is all “What characters you heard of from the last game? Oh no, they died. Sorry if you bought the game based on a friend’s recommendation or anything.”
Nah. I don’t have a 360 and my PC at the time ME2 was released was no where near strong enough to play it.
That was in response to “Sorry if a friend recommended it”
And I got the PC version of ME 1 during the Steam sale, I intend to play it at some point.
I remember back when ME2 was in development they had a feature that let them change any variable they wanted when making a new character. But they took it out because… reasons, I guess.
I can see some arguments. It cheapens people’s work in previous games and part of these decisions is being there at the time and doing the stuff. If you can tick a box to do a loyalty mission… in many ways that’s cheating. And there are a lot of choices. Bioware must have included hundreds of continuity points. They were tracking over 800 from the first game alone.
But equally this is why I said you have to complete the game first and do some trophies maybe, if you’re asking me to play a 25 hour game again before I can play a thirty hour game again and what if you want your ME2 playthrough to tie into the ME1 playthrough…
And what’s wrong with cheating exactly? As long as it’s limited to one’s own playthrough?
I’m not talking about actual cheating here :D The problem with devaluing the effort put in is it weakens the narrative and feelings associated with the game. The whole concept of a game is about forcing people to do things the long way round, do things a little more obtuse and complicatedly so that the objective is more satisfying. Why not just start with the ball in the net in football? And humans have shown that they’re not necessarily very good as self-regulating their own fun. In online modes, even if camping is actually really boring, loads of people still camp because they want to win and then eventually get bored and play something else.
Apart from anything, if they sole thing keeping you from cheating your objective is willpower, then you’ve got this battle with yourself going on, even if you don’t cheat, you’ve spent willpower avoiding it and the goal feels a little more false because you could have just taken the short cut.
If they wanted to make it an actual cheat code (or a mod :D) then that’s different because you have to make a decision to make that possible, but I think it would weaken the game and make the previous ones feel more invalid if they gave you a switch that you didn’t have to earn in some way. Its a fun experience lining up a perfect playthrough across all games (the first time) and this would spoil that a little bit
Your comment is patronizing. You don’t get to say “your way of getting enjoyment from the game is wrong”. Some people like to cheat some don’t. Some people enjoy cutting mephisto 1000 times to get a stone of jordan (diablo 2 reference) some others just clone the damn thing because they find the grinding unbearable. Some people like to skip cutscenes, some like to watch them repatedly. Some doesn’t like spoilers, some do. Some uses walkthroughs, some don’t. You don’t get to dictate how people enjoy their games. If people like to cheat in their single player games they should be able to cheat. If they enjoy something in a different way than you do they should be able to do it.
The difference is between an actual cheat which if fine, and just having it as part of the game, I didn’t mean to patronising, I meant it would spoil the fun of my playthrough because I’m that type of person. If there were a cheats section and you could choose all your setting there it’d be fine because it’s not like part of the game, it wouldn’t spoil my fun because it wouldn’t feel like I’m resisting something that’s fairly available as part of the core game.
I’ve got terrible willpower, whenever I play MMOs or RPGs I end up grinding until I’m bored to the death of the game and give up. I can’t play sandboxes either, because I need someone to tell me what to do or else I do nothing and give up. I really do need a dev giving me a strong to help me enjoy their game, or else I will ruin it for myself. In a shooter I’ll sit in a corner and point the gun at the door unless they’ve made it so that’s not a viable strategy. Their are plenty of people who are strong enough to enjoy a game by themselves, but there are also people like me, who need this stuff
Oh and complaints about camping is one of my pet peeves. If your opponent is better than you in a physical way (hand eye coordination, reflexes, better mouse, etc) going face to face with him is stupid. This is why people camp. To beat other people with their brain. By laying traps, checking ambush locations, studying maps for advantages. They do camp because they know they’d be at a disadvantageous position in a face to face battle. And no they don’t have to charge and die just because other player is too lazy to check his corners or use grenades in open terrain.
Jacob was too dull to die.
In fact, the kid on Earth is the one exception to the rule of “Conservation of Character Fatality Rate” – “The more entertaining a character is to a story, the more likely they will die, if said story needs to kill off a character.”
Case in point: Leigon. Previously an Always Chaotic Evil race with a Vocal Evil Side…dies regardless of how you resolve Rannoch.
In ME2, Mordin. Master debater of all things related to the Genophage and its morality and similar topics. Contrast to Miranda – Mary Sue, death immunity until the very, very end, with deliberate planning. Especially if you don’t want to kill of anyone else.
In ME1, Wrex.
Oh, do I need to say something more? Virmire Victim then, one of the potential romance options.
Counterpoint: Udina vs. the Councillors. Udina has plot immunity until ME3 (Even to being demoted in the game below Anderson), Councillors can be killed off at the end of ME1.
Th Virmire victims count as interesting?!
Anyone else disappointed by how they handled the Yahg (the shadow bowser race) in this game? I was really hoping we would be able to go to their planet and they would be a race where we could debate whether to bring them into the fight to help us or to keep them out because they might be too dangerous or they might betray us, or even concern over whether we wanted to uplift them because it would make them a target for the reapers.
Instead we get a reference to the shadow broker dlc here, a brief mention of them by liara later, and… thats it. For how much their codex entries built them up in the dlc they hardly do anything with them in ME3.
I get that it would have been difficult to fit in alongside the krogan and the geth issues, but I was really hoping they would do something interesting with it. Also Yahg husks would have been an interesting enemy.
I wasn’t too upset about that. It is a bit of an oversight, but much less so than some of the other oversights this series has.
I didn’t see it as an oversight, seeing as the yahg obviously have no interest in cooperating with other races, and their planet is completely ignored by the Reapers anyway as they’ve yet to achieve spaceflight. Thus there’s no motivation for them to help.
Something did just occur to me though. What are the chances Liara’s “Next cycle box” was left on the Yahg planet for this very reason?
Well, assuming it *was* the Yahg planet, but that would make things *very* interesting. To me, at least.
Yeah, it’s more a nice thing to include but considering everything seemed stretched already, it’s pretty missable.
Would have brought up some interesting questions though, the Reapers aim to preserve pre-flight races, like the Yahg, so what would they have done if the Yahg had been in the fight?
That’s a better way of saying what I was thinking. The Shadow Broker’s race never mattered in the grand scheme of things and there are much bigger problems to discuss than not bringing in this new species which not many people actually cared all that much about.
I wasn’t that upset about it and I understand why they didn’t do anything with it, I was just hoping they would do something interesting with the new race they’d introduced, and was disappointed that they did very little with it.
Don’t get me wrong, it would have been nice. I did like many of the side-quests like Grissom Academy and Aria’s questline(speaking of, the quest log in ME3 was terrible) and the Yahg would’ve probably been handled similarly. It would’ve been a nice small touch.
On the other hand “Electronic Arts presents.”
There must have been huge resource issues for this game, the quest log is proof… how can you make something like that so much worse than in the other two games? It’s not lack of reading backstory, because you don’t need backstory to write them, it’s not a design issue because it’s just a straight up regression with no advantage and I don’t believe with the amount of detail in environments, volume of dialogue, good quest lines, huge improvement on combat, proper upgrade system and some of the people who’d been there from the start, that people had given up and weren’t trying. There’s effort in that game.
So there must have been big resource issues and small things like the Quest Log got cut along with bigger things
Just how good was Aria’s questline? Does it ever give you away to turn all this on her and tell her to push off? I refused to accept it and when I accidentally did I refused to accept it. I don’t see why she’s more acceptable than any other merc band and I wasn’t going to give her the power and satisfaction of allowing people to think she’d got Shepard in her pocket. I’d fight the war without her mercenaries because I refuse to set her up as a power afterwards, at least at the moment the infighting between merc factions stops any one from gaining too much power.
You do have to give Aria the mercenaries if you want to get those assets. I liked the quest-lines because they tested how far you were willing to go in order to get them to join you.
The Blue Suns have you get a turian commander off their back. You could just kill him outright, or you could listen to him and offer a deal to get him to temporarily look away (if memory serves) until the war is over. The deal gives you both blue sun and turian assets.
Eclipse has you either break out a violent psychopath fiercely loyal to Aria, or install a weaker-minded pawn as the head off the mercenary organization.
The Blood Pack has you kill the vorcha in charge so that his much more tolerable brother can take the reins.
Do all of them right and you can do as much general good for the Citadel as you do for Aria. Plus, I kinda like Aria as a character. I was mad when I heard Cerberus took over Omega, so it was my way of trying to get revenge in TIM. After all, Aria threatened to make him pay and I wasn’t sure we’d be able to confront TIM at the end.
And yeah, that quest log is more proof of the rush job that was Mass Effect 3.
I did the 2nd and 3rd by mistake, the game makes it hard to avoid. I wasn’t convinced I’d done good because Aria is using you as a pawn, the 1st mission all the good you do is really maybe saving someone from Aria killing them, which shows you why it’s unfavourable to have an unchecked Aria with three merc groups and a Shepard in her pocket. And the 2nd, the weak person isn’t an advantage, because that’s just giving stuff to Aria, if you don’t act then either she takes over (without getting to tell people that you work for her) or the situation is better because the psychopath is imprisoned and Eclipse is leaderless without a strong person to take helm.
Even on Omega I worked to undermine Aria’s power base. I made sure she had to show respect to the Patriach, established him as a bit more of a power on Omega and removed him as her trophy/intimidation.
The only thing I regret about not doing the quest all the way through is that for someone reason Aria got party member level dialogue in 2 and you could actually do the check up for an advance thing at one point and I thought you might get the whole story in 3.
I don’t know if it’s necessarily a rush job either, it was big enough that they could probably have any launch release. There’s a limit to profitability on games, if you want to make a profit without needing 10 million sales then you can only put in Â£30 million worth of man hours or whatever. Maybe they should have cut multiplayer, but it looks like that was designed to be self contained and self funding (incidentally I thought it was a bit cheap to have Skinner box micro transactions of the second worst kind in a multiplayer for a game you’ve already paid for. Maybe if it wasn’t random I wouldn’t mind so much, because as I said, it probably helped them afford a little more development for the game/multiplayer)
I stopped playing multiplayer because I got sick of the random draw style of getting rewards. I don’t hate the concept of microtransactions. In theory, it’s just paying for expedience. However, when you introduce random draw, it pisses me off.
If I wanted random chance to tell me how good my layout would be, I’d keep playing Yu-Gi-Oh. I would’ve rather had a system where you just pay X amount in either credits or irl money and got Y weapon. Putting it real world money for a CHANCE to get what you want is just slimy. Team Fortress 2 did it so much better.
Also, with the obvious slowdowns and noticeably higher rate of glitching, along with the lazy design in places like this, I am willing to call this a rush job. Really, they knew this was going to be massively successful. There’s no excuse for not having this game absolutely polished.
What I’m saying is, games have a finite amount of time on it constrained by their budget. When we gasped at UFC needed 2 million to turn a profit, it’s because it wasn’t a rush job and they spent a lot of time polishing it.
So if Mass Effect estimates it can only sell 5 million copies, then it can only spend that moneys worth of time making the game. Spending more time making the game would mean they need to sell more to make profit or they can’t make profit.
And Mass Effect is a big game so it eats up manhours. You can’t call it a rush job, because they didn’t cut corners to save time, they had less time to save money. If we feel it wasn’t polished enough for the money they were expecting to make we can call it mismanaged, they didn’t spend their manhours well, and I think that’s probably what happened. Huge project, large scope, hasn’t been tried before, they probably made a lot of mistakes.
It would be a rush job if it was cruddy because they were trying to hit a certain release window. That could have happened, but I think the game is big enough that they would have just delayed it. It came out in March so they weren’t aiming for a Christmas release or anything
EDIT: Am I quibbling semantics here? II guess rush job can also imply they didn’t care about quality and just wanted to get it out and I’m suggesting that might not have been the case and they just didn’t have enough money to polish and do what they would have hoped to achieve
There was an interesting peripheral story involving the Raloi, a never-seen avian species. They showed up in the ME2 Cerberus Daily News reports as just having achieved starflight. (Basically where humans were when they found the Charon relay.) There’s a sequence of updates in which they’re welcomed to the Citadel, various peripheral events happen (an avian flu outbreak, an out-of-hand krogan blood sport at the welcoming event).
And then in ME3, one of the news stories that plays in the background (I think in Spectre headquarters) mentions that due to the advent of the Reapers, the Raloi have withdrawn from Citadel space, retreated to their home system, and are planning on systematically destroying their space infrastructure and satellites. They’re hoping that the Reapers will thus see them as a pre-spaceflight civilization, and pass them by.
I don’t think we find out if they succeed, though it seems likely enough for the three main endings. (For the Reject ending, the fact that the next cycle had to get their information on the Reapers from Liara’s beacon implies that they at least didn’t maintain historical continuity.)
Mass Effect had enough species already. The Yahg are completely unnecessary.
There’s absolutely no reason to do that. They’re completely hostile, violent towards everybody, and, assuming they didn’t get completely wiped out, you’d probably be looking at another Krogan Wars scenarion, albeit (maybe?) on a lesser scale
On the one hand, no fantastic breeding rates. On the other hand, intelligent, strategic, malevolent instead of merely warlike, fully capable of advancing technology and building more and more war ships, and in society will submit to alpha male so no infighting and civil wars.
… would have been a tough one to call
Re: not being able to disagree with Wrex. I was not too mad about that because I was too busy being mad about not being able to agree with him in ME1 when it comes to Saren’s base.
EDIT: And about the indoctrinated salarians, I think that’s one we can blame on multiplayer. I would bet they wanted easy distinct factions for that.
Given the usual views on how multiplayer murders the development of game stories, that defense is roughly up there with “he had it coming.”
Having a Ceberus faction was nice in single player. Not only did they have a unique fighting style and were a change of pace in combat throughout the game, but having that style linked to factions allowed instant recognition and gave character to the fight.
It was also nice to have different tones. Even ME2 benefited from having a minimum of two distinct enemy types to break up the monotony of ‘fighting Reaper forces, fighting Reaper forces, fighting Reaper forces’
Maybe if they’d found a way to justify two unique sets of Reapers to fight, that would break motony, but then they’d have two unique factions.
Besides there are lots of places in the game where Cerberus being involved makes sense and is okay, just not this particular case. I don’t think it’s fair to blame multiplayer on this one.
(Apart from anything, in neither of the two games nor KotoR and maybe even Jade Empire have they ever had just one enemy faction you could fight, it’s not like they’re springing this on us combined with a MP mode all of a sudden)
On one hand, three different groups with three vastly different fighting styles really should be enough to keep variety in the game. And to the games credit, it does pretty much succeed in that.
However, there is something to be said for letting indoctrinated salarians be the bad guys for one mission. I understand it’d take a lot of work, but really only one faction (Reapers) has a motive for attacking and they should be overkill if striking like they do at any other target.
On a separate, yet somewhat relevant tangent, why aren’t there any Salarian husks? I don’t see why they wouldn’t be huskified like any other race.
Because Salarians are wimpy nerds :D They could have run Salarian indoctrination with standard Reaper enemies and it wouldn’t have really cost anything more at all and at least Reapers would have made a little more sense (although that equals an attack on the Salarian homeworld I guess, full out invasion)
They could have done a basically non combat level maybe. Salarian indoctrinated sabotage the facility and you have to run through fire and leap over stuff. Maybe fight the Yahrg. If they could have afforded the development ours they could do a dialogue based level where everything is in chaos and there are unknown traitors, and you have to figure out who you trust with the safety of Eve and people ask you to do things but some might be lying etc
Cerberus were just the lazy option here in the end
EDIT: I guess all those options might be resource intensive still. Not sure how much more time it’d take to do something differnet
Awww, Josh didn’t play with the button that the one salarian keeps getting mad at you for touching. I love that part!
Am I the only one who liked the film grain and ridiculous lens flair? :(
I did too. I also liked film grain in L4d. I think I like it just because it’s different. If EVERYONE did film grain I’d be sick of it.
I’m firmly on the list of people who hate film grain. XD I can’t fathom why people would want their video to look less hi-def, but hey, to each their own! More options are always a good thing.
Film grain works pretty well in Silent Hill 2, but then again that is a whole different beast.
Considering the art in many of the current games,Id pick film grain over plastic faces any time.
These imperfections are like adding spice to something. If you use too much and overpower everything else, it fails. Used correctly, it can be a subtle mood-setter that we’re not even aware of, kind of like how music can make us anxious without realizing we’re hearing trilling violins or what have you.
Still, JJ Abrams uses far too much shakey-cam and lens flare for his own good. Babylon-5 used a TON of lens flare, but I think their budget limited how many filters/effects they could afford.
To its credit, B5 only really ever used lens flare when there was a ‘reason’, such as a panning shot in space or a seriously big explosion or engine, and for the jumpgates. There was never the ‘every light and reflective surface’ flaring like in JJ Trek or we see here.
Exactly. I think the only time it was used on an “indoor” shot was for some of the energy weapons (setting the flare to be more of a tight “ball” shape), but not for a screen-spanning method of blinding the audience.
Film grain, like 24 FPS-with-motion-blur, creates a “Cinematic” effect in a game. The truth of the matter is that “Photorealism” is an oxymoron – in terms of image fidelity, photographs are distortions of the true appearance of something. We just accept it as “real” (even though it’s really not) because that’s what we’ve been conditioned to accept, and deviations from this look wrong. Without things like lens flare, film grain, and motion blur subconsciously reminding that this is not trying to be a truly realistic image, it makes photographic distortion, artificially-induced depth, and awkward animation stand out even more.
Well sure, I think overuse goes without saying. I really appreciated the specific style they were going for when BioWare first started Mass Effect.
I actually landed myself a special addition copy when I bought the game used a few years ago, and I looked at a healthy chunk of all the documentaries and concept art before even playing the game. Combining this with seeing the world created for the first time, and my reaction was a whispering “Wowwwwwwww…” You could see everything–the specific aesthetic, feel, music, etc.–BioWare wanted to convey not only in their concept art and vidocs, but it all came across in the game.
To be fair, the film grain in L4D actually has a stylistic reason to be there, since they pass the playthrough off as a movie, complete with credits and zombie movie poster.
Mass Effect’s was stylistic as well, since they were trying to imitate an old sci-fi TV show. :P
1:20: The best thing about bringing Dr Michel onto the Normandy is watching Garrus hilariously fail to pick up on the fact that she likes him. (And no, he never does pick up on it, poor girl. XD)
4:39: Those moving screens never seemed to line up properly. One time I somehow turned around in the room and all the screens flipped backward, and stayed that way for the rest of the time I was in the room.
5:12: I’m guessing they brought in the materials to build the Broker ship directly above Hagalaz, then guided it down into the atmosphere once it was complete.
7:40: Yeah, I always got that feeling too. Mass Effect 1 feels very much like a sci-fi game. Mission worlds like Therum, Feros and Noveria all evoke feelings of awe and wonder and remind you that space in general is a cold, hostile place that’s inimical to life. People only survive there through hermetically-sealed suits, state-of-the-art ships and habitats, and if something goes wrong, people die. Fast.
In contrast, ME2 and ME3 feel more like shooter games that happen to be set in space. The space-realism aspect of the games is downplayed in favour of action and plot convenience. I mean, even on worlds where the atmosphere is supposed to be toxic and hostile to life, NPCs like Jack can get by with only a breathing mask. (Little tip: walking into a cloud of corrosive gas half-naked is NOT good for your health. Even if you’re a biotic.)
8:47: No, you could have gone gallivanting about the galaxy prior to the Menae mission, but there isn’t a lot to do apart from scan some planets, do a short N7 mission (or play the DLC mission, if you have From Ashes installed).
11:02: Urdnot Dagg only shows up if Grunt is dead in your playthrough. I believe he always dies at the end of the mission if you choose to save a certain NPC, but Grunt can survive it if he was loyal in ME2. I liked that.
16:00: I also loved, LOVED, the interplay between Wrex, Liara and Garrus here. It just fills you with warm, fuzzy feelings to see three old friends reunited, still maintaining the camaraderie they shared from ME1. :)
19:00: Considering the game suggests there was a mole in the STG base, chances are that you’re right, Shamus. There WAS an indoctrinated salarian (or more than one) who helped the attack on the base possible. Of course, that would also suggest that Cerberus is indoctrinated and in cahoots with the Reapers, which contradicts a large part of what the rest of the game states. The whole situation strikes me as being rather shaky; why would a salarian, no matter how well paid, work for a human supremacist terrorist group?
24:33: Actually, in the novels, batarians often call humans “furheads” as a derogatory insult. XD
26:12: I believe if Mordin is dead, Padok Wiks (the guy upstairs who said “Hold your fire!”) is the person who fills his role.
19:00 – I think they were referring to Mordin’s transmission that went out, but if it was the indoctrinated spy, it should be noted that Cerberus did seem to be working for the Reapers at this point and time, while using Horizon to basically due what Saren did with studying indoctrination – only this time to try and revert it, so they could control the Reapers.
It’s possible the Reapers used this to their advantage, leaking the Illsuive Man information that told him to that there was a strategic issue with the Krogan – if Eve was killed, the Krogan wouldn’t be able to challenge humanity’s rise to power after the Reapers were “controlled”.
26:12 – I hoped the pecking line with Mordin (“Personally prefer to get job done and go home.”), Kirrahae (“Hold the Line!”), then to Padok (“Hold your fire!”).
Sadly, Maelon breaks the combo, IIRC.
So … what happens if you convinced Mordin that the Genophage was a brutal necessity and he deleted all of the data in ME2? Who is there helping? What are they basing their work on (I guess samples from the retconned-in surviving female test subjects? Surprising that what’s-his-face didn’t mention them when trying to convince Shepard in ME2 that he could totally cure the genophage, horrible experiments be damned. “I have literally already succeeded in my work” is a pretty persuasive argument.)
Also blah blah, usual complaints about Cerberus having an army, knowing about and easily breaching the perimeter of a top-secret Salarian STG facility, and apparently also having a space navy (Liara destroyed a “cerberus cruiser”). I’m more interested in whinging about the map-movement mechanic they kept in from ME2. Dragging the cursor around to manually fly the little ship was annoying and I much preferred just selecting my destination. This is why I have a pilot, after all.
In the event, it will still be Mordin, but the cure will fail because you didn’t have the data and Eve will be dead.
Also, if Wrex is dead, but Mordin is alive, you can convince him that the Krogan are doomed and that he shouldn’t bother with the cure. Doing so nets you his services as a 25 point War Asset as well as Krogan and Salarian support. (Reeve is too stupid to figure out you duped him.)
So the guy who rationalized that the genophage was a necessity and whom youve reassured that he was doing the right thing,is again having doubts about it being the right thing,up to the point where he informs the krogans that he has the cure and then you have to convince him again that genophage was a necessity?
Ok,admittedly thats not as bad as the reaper baby saved from an exploding base in the center of the universe,but it still is a bad plot hole that couldve been averted if bioware planned this series in advance.
I think it’s more of a case of “we got your females, come pick them up”.
I don’t think that’s a plot hole at all. If someone has nagging doubts, they don’t always go away the first time someone argues with them, even if that first time the results are “… yeah, you’re right.” Being convinced of something is not a permanent state.
So he kills his apprentice and destroys his research,but still isnt convinced?Even though he later tells you that he is?No,he has to let a krogan woman to die and falsify some data in order to be really convinced.
If that happens, Eve dies, because Mordin has to run harsher tests without that data. If Eve is dead AND Wrex is dead, Mordin can be convinced to walk away and let the sabotage ruin the genophage cure, because he realizes that without Wrex’s leadership and Eve’s calming presence, the Krogan are going to start another round of Krogan Wars.
But Shamus, they do make a big deal about indoctrination! You (may or may not, I can’t remember) lose war assets because of indoctrinated people like the asari scientist you met in both games. And Kar’sharn got wiped out offscreen and with absolutely no fanfare due to indoctrinated batarians… actually, you’re right. The only confirmed indoctrinated person you meet, in person rather than reading about them in an email or some news item is the Illusive Man.
Saren says Hi.
I think he was strictly referring to Mass Effect 3.
In that case.. every cerberus mook with facehelmet ever? Because we saw pre-meeting Liara, on mars, that Shepard takes a mooks helmet off and he’s half-cyberzombified. That’s pretty much hardcore indoctrination. (same visual effect as Saren had in first game)
I’m more wishing that Cerberus was more covert, and that those indoctrinated mind-slaves Vigil talked about caused some of the plot attacks instead; Sur’kesh could have an indoctrinated Salarian sabotaging stuff so the reapers can invade like they did at Kar’sharn, or, hell, an indoctrinated Cerberus scientist calling reapers to one of those side-missions. Instead, you get an email saying that doctor asari you spared went nuts and killed people, and you have to read about Kar’sharn in the codex.
When did the last stage of indoctrination became turning into a husk?Those two were different things.
Shamus, the “Previous” Link of this episodes page goes to Episode 4. It should link to episode 7. Episode 7 also doesn’t have to “Next” yet (presumably because of the former issue).
Also, the last Half-Life 2 and Modern Warfare 3 episodes have yet to be uploaded to the Spoiler Warning page.
Either you fixed it, or it never happened at all and I’m going insane.
Probably the latter.
I saw it too. Maybe it was fixed.
You know, I don’t think if it is intentional or not, but the Salarians sometimes after saying a phrase that’s humorous or encouraging they make a little awkward smile. I like to think of it as the Salarians trying to mimic the human smile, since they don’t express humor or encouragement in the same way, but would likely study the expressions of other sapient species.
Now that I think about it, it might even be the case. Except for the Asari, no alien species in Mass Effect (not races, godamnit) really have much in the way of facial expressions. And the Asari is a special case, since they imply Asari seem to telepathically influence how they look into other species. And considering the amount of actual thinking that went into the backdrop of the original Mass Effect, this might actually conceivably be one of those little details they put in.
Even if not, as I said, it is what I like to assume.
“Except for the Asari, no alien species in Mass Effect really have much in the way of facial expressions. And the Asari is a special case, since they imply Asari seem to telepathically influence how they look into other species. And considering the amount of actual thinking that went into the backdrop of the original Mass Effect, this might actually conceivably be one of those little details they put in.”
So…you’re saying they wrote in lore that saved them animation budget?
That’s pretty genius, if you ask me. “Eh, they’re always grumpy looking. And yes, the camera is always looking away from a handshake by coincidence.” :p
I’ve noticed that Turians tend to flutter their mandibles a bit when they’re taken aback or otherwise flustered. Sort of a visual “Umm…”
Chris: When you said “Does Mordin Kinda…” I heard “Does Mordinkind’s…” and immediately began speculating on what would happen if a Disjunction was cast on all this magic tech.
Shamus: The Sci-Fi “blood cure” sounds a lot like old-timey blood magic… interesting.
Guys. You’re all missing the most important thing.
Kirrahe is in it.
That’s all I wanted out of ME 3 on some level.
HOLD. THE. LINE.
(Yes, I am joking, but he was my favorite bit character in the original game, and I love how he factors into Mordin’s backstory.)
Humans don’t just have hair on our heads…most of us have some measure of cover all over our bodies. I mean, some of us have to worry about shedding if they sit too long on a white couch.
Heh! Gotta love the Spoiler Warning team. “this sucks, that sucks” then a little later they are gushing about “oh he lives? Oh you can do that. oh I never knew there was a NPC there”.
BTW! There was a panel (last comic con I think), should be a video on youtube. They aren’t saying anything about the ending/end extension dlc there. But they do talk about the characters, and the guy that did the Genophage stuff and wraps it up and did Wrex’s story etc. Gets almost a standing applause.
The Genophage stuff could easily have been a a Mass Effect story/game on it’s own.
And I must say that out of all characters in ME, I find Wrex (and Legion) the best looking and most original CG models.
The texturing on Wrex’s face and animation is so good that that’s it’s close to Avatar levels. (which is saying something since it’s a “console friendly” game and not a movie.)
Still waiting for one of the crew to address the fact that Mumbles has apparently left the show? :/
It’s probably just a one-week thing.
No. On her Twitter, she announced she was moving on.
Did I miss some on hold announcement or is Spoiler Warning on GW2 break?
It’s not exactly relevant to the current videos, but your old viddler stuff is now displaying “free trial expired” and not letting me watch them. I can watch other viddler stuff so I presume the problem is on your end? I didn’t know where to put this comment, since it’s affecting all your pre-youtube videos, so I just put it here. I really enjoy these videos (thus the going through the archives).
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