I like that a few of your abilities were already acquired on the level up menu. At the very start of the game, Jensen has apparently already “spent points” on the HUD and other things. It connected the gameplay mechanics and contrivances with the leveling mechanics. It also showed that Jensen had been gradually easing into his augmentations on his own during the 6-month recovery time.
In this episode I talk about how cities are tough to do. This is one of the reasons I make such a big deal about Grand Theft Auto IV. That’s pretty much your worst-case scenario for environment design. It’s hard to manage that much texture data at so many different resolutions, it’s hard to manage all those buildings at so many different detail levels, all changing in real-time, it’s hard designing a tool set that will let multiple artists all work in the same open world without getting in each other’s way, it’s hard having all those interior spaces available without loading screens, it’s hard with so many cars, people, sound effects, global actors (like the train) and getting AI to drive around in that mess without making a fool of itself. I don’t really hold it against other games for failing to live up to that standard.
However, you can see the technology gap here. In Human Revolution we’ve got a very limited section of the city, no traffic, few pedestrians, and there are still loading screens all over the place. I don’t fault the game too much for it. This isn’t an id Software game and I’m not here to gawk at graphics spectacle and coding prowess. However, there will be one point later on when the game will really, really be undermined by the technology to an embarrassing degree. Josh is apparently displeased with my habit of looking ahead, so we’ll save that discussion for when the time comes.
The Best of 2019
I called 2019 "The Year of corporate Dystopia". Here is a list of the games I thought were interesting or worth talking about that year.
Blistering Stupidity of Fallout 3
Yeah, this game is a classic. But the story is idiotic, incoherent, thematically confused, and patronizing.
Revisiting a Dead Engine
I wanted to take the file format of a late 90s shooter and read it in modern-day Unity. This is the result.
Secret of Good Secrets
Sometimes in-game secrets are fun and sometimes they're lame. Here's why.
Spec Ops: The Line
A videogame that judges its audience, criticizes its genre, and hates its premise. How did this thing get made?
187 thoughts on “Deus Ex Human Revolution EP5:Hi Mom!”
“be undermines by”
“I am the UnderMiner! I am beneath you, but NOTHING is beneath me!”
Fuck, my domino mask is still a the dry cleaner’s!
I’m kind of looking very far ahead here, but for your next spoiler warning game, I think you guys should do Deadly Premonition. It would be very interesting to hear what you have to say about such a strange game
Too bad it’s not available on PC. And after watching the Giantbomb endurance run, some of the technical issues while genuinely hilarious are downright awful.
I personally would want to see the guys do Alpha Protocol. That’ll be hilarious. :P
The murderous rampage centered around Josh’s place might be fun to read about on the news, I suppose…
Alpha protocol,but with uzis!
I would agree if they cut out every single overbloated combat section. The game would’ve been much better without them. It would just be boring to watch otherwise as there wouldn’t be much to talk about in those points.
In the second last sentence it should be ‘undermined’…or maybe ‘under mines’, but that doesn’t make much sense…
Vandenberg Air Force Base – that took place during the day, didn’t it?
EDIT: Nope. Misremembered. There was a sunset or sunrise on the horizon, though.
I think daytime in DX1 always happens when JC is in transit or trapped in an underground base.
Tai Yong Medical is during the day, maybe all of Hengsha, but you cannot see it from under the Pangu. When you are above it and look out of the window you can see it is bright day.
The final level also takes place during daytime.
And to tell the truth, the daylight you can see beyond the glass in Tai Yong is truly striking. In my first play through the moment I noticed the daylight I went straight for the window and just looked at the background textures for a while. Some digital artists can rest easy knowing their work didn’t go unnoticed.
Though really, it gets really noticeable once you start sneaking around and taking down the security. How come neither Shamus, nor Josh or Rutskarn remembered it?
EDIT: “Your comment is awaiting moderation. ”
What the hell is that? Did I raise some flags? What did I do wrong?
I think the site has certain phrases that, if found, automatically flag a comment. I’ve had a few comments flagged and then removed later. No worries, though. Shamus is pretty lenient if you’re not deliberately trolling.
I know the phrase filter system, but really, what sentence there could trigger it?
Really, I just want to know what I did to hit face-first into spam-checkers. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t a sentence. Then again, it could be the spam-checking software acting up, but I’d like to know if that was the case also.
“I know the phrase filter system, but really, what sentence there could trigger it?”
Dont fret about it,no one knows.I had a comment become flagged for moderations simply by editing it and changing “to” to “from”.Its just weird.
While on the topic, Vampire: the Masquerade – Bloodlines (which is basically a Deus Ex clone, only WoD) at least had in-universe reasons for the entire thing being at night.
However, there will be one point later on when the game will really, really be undermines by the technology to an embarrassing degree.
Was that meant tp be a D.
Was that meant to be an O?
I’m really upset you didn’t have a typo in your reply. We could have formed some sort of ouroboros proofing.
I was considering to do the same typo again…
I think your attempt was undermines by making a grammar error instead. ‘Doing’
EDIT: Please read that as a punctuating sound effect rather than a verb :D
Also, is that Harry Mason from Silent Hill: Shatered Memories? with the goggles round his neck?
That… is… I didn’t notice that until you said it, but they do look a lot alike.
One more reason not to go to an ice level in this game.
Whelp, now I know Shamus didn’t watch my LP of the leaked beta… or at least not the suave/stealth run.
Edit: Pro tip: Don’t watch my LP, it’s terrible. My computer barely runs the game by itself let alone with Procaster going and I’m just not very interesting in my commenting.
I kinda like how every time you ask a quest giver about a reward, they always have some form of “Are you serous? What a jackass!”. It demonstrates that Jensen is normally a nice guy and that’s out of character for him. I don’t really have a problem with Jensen being a preconceived character and not a blank slate.
Also, I have no idea how you missed the police conversation, Shamus. Shame too, it’s a pretty interesting conversation that sheds light on the events in Mexicotown.
Maybe if you don’t mess it up it does. Apparently I chose the wrong options, as it locked down and didn’t let me inside, so I went for the sneaky approach. Which became the killing people desperately approach later. And at one point on the way back out, the slowly-nosing-a-cardboard-box-across-the-space-between-a-corridor -and-some-stairs approach, because apparently a man carrying a box is suspicious to a guard staring at him but Bumpy the animate cardboard box is not.
You’re supposed to be reassuring throughout the conversation in order to win. It’s probably more because of my playstyle because I always play as the good guy who tries to heal all wounds than because of skill that I passed that check. I think the only one I actually lost was
the final conversation with Darrowon my first playthrough. I never invested in the social enhancer the first time.
Yeah, I couldn’t get that one either. Blowing them away with an explosive revolver round sure made up for it though. I was amazed I was even allowed to do that. Then I got the wonderful icing on the cake by getting to sucker punch
Nope. Crushed him twice before reassuring him. The game is designed to change up the conversation between playthroughs, so choosing the same option all the time won’t always lead to a success.
Rather, you have to read the opponent’s body language and voice tone and desperately hope you’re picking the right options. :p
Just like in real life!
Wait, real life has a quicksave button?
Yes. It’s called alcohol.
I believe you’re confusing that with the ‘generate new content’ button.
I always interpreted it as something akin to “roll on the random events table.”
Whenever you reload a conversation, it changes the path you need to take for conversation success, so I’m totally fine with calling “alcohol” the “quicksave/load button”.
In case of Megan’s mum it actually makes perfect sense for her to be shocked with you asking for a reward. Jensen and Megan were once a pair and their conversation implies they stayed on a friendly basis. Judging from the dialogue she considers him at the very least a “friend of the family,” on top of that its also the same attack that he himself was wounded in. The logical answers would be either “I’ll look into it” or some kind of gentle refusal not “how much will you pay me for this”. Unless of course you’re roleplaying a Jensen who’s empathy has seriously atrophied during these six months.
That’s exactly why I like it. People act appropriately shocked when you say something like that. Most of the side-quest givers in Chicago are at least old acquaintances of Jensen before the augs. The conversations and the reaction to what Jensen says tells the player a lot about him in very subtle ways.
I never asked for this trailer:
I’m noticing again that men in this game have got little heads. It looks like they got enormous shoulders, but it’s just little heads.
I noticed it too, especially on Adam with his 5:1 shoulder-to-head ratio. Even still it looks like everyone in the game must be around 8 feet tall. My guess is it was done for artistic effect and to help emphasize the different silhouettes between characters.
I mostly noticed that his civilian coat seems to add about three inches to his shoulder width. During missions, where he’s not wearing it and only has his actual bare shoulders, it doesn’t look as bad.
You mean stuff like… this?
But you haven’t noticed the long necks on pretty much everyone? That kind of stuff has been bothering me since Mass Effect 1. Surely they could’ve done the long collars -thing with less disturbing proportions.
Every time you guys make a “lol Rutskarn is young” joke, you make me feel like a toddler.
(For the record, as of the time of writing, I’m 17).
I feel the same way (18).
I used to feel that way. Don’t worry, you’ll get over it as time passes. (21)
And then you’ll just feel old. Too old to do the things you did as a child or teenager.(24)
Really? ‘Cause when I got old, it meant I had money to do what I did as a child and teenager, but without having to ask my parents for permission. So awesome! (26)
Young’uns these days….
As you get older you start caring less about age itself, and begin looking for order in the world. Like the age progression in this thread! (28)
Damn, now I feel old. (37)
Fun fact: Rutskarn and I are practically identical. Same age, same height, same build, similar facial structure. It’s kind of creepy how he’s basically me, only better at all the things I want to be good at.
Same name, if that’s your name, too IIRC.
Are you old enough to drink?
I am a little older than he is, jokes aside, so yes.
And yes, Adam is my real name.
Very important difference: he’s a pc gamer, I’m a console gamer.
I actually am his age but they’re funny all the same.
Dont worry,its just Rutskarn.He is permanently 12.He will be 12 even in his 50s.
I still would like you all to realize that Mexicantown is a real neighborhood of Detroit. :P
Is it the neighbourhood right by the Ambassador Bridge? I think I’ve driven through it after crossing the border.
Please also tell us more about Milwaukee Junction.
See, that sounds crazy to me. Then again, I do live at the very southern tip of Nevada; Mexico is the practically the next state over.
Come on, Josh, that’s hardly fair: there’s a large swath of Mexicanized California in between you and Mexico!
As for the conversation-“bossbattles” being hard without the creepy-casie-aug. Yeah, Rutskarn: consider yourself corrected on that.
I actually found them rather easy to do without that aug. In two playthroughs I haven’t even gotten the thing. The only conversation I had to reload to get the outcome I wanted was the one with Zeke when playing the game for the first time. And that was just me screwing up because I was still learning the how and what of the system honestly.
It’s just a matter of picking an option and watching their (well done) facial animations to see wether or not you’re getting through to them. Using the casie-mod is basically entering easy mode and skipping over the fun part of the conversations (namely finding out what each character’s buttons are).
As for Josh’s comment that there’s nothing the pre-rendered cutscenes can do that the ingame engine can’t. Well, there’s having non-ridiculous animation during conversations for one.
I don’t think I ever got one truly wrong either. Usually their expressions will be easy to read, and if you have a knack for facial recognition, it’s really not that difficult. I breezed through them myself.
Usually their expressions will be easy to read, and if you have a knack for facial recognition
I have Asperger’s Syndrome (medically diagnosed) and I had no idea why my answers would occasionally bounce their heart rate around like a ping-pong ball. I pretty much figured out which responses the writers wanted me to choose though, but I didn’t know I was supposed to pick up on their “facial tells”. Like real life! (Well, I can guess but it’s not intuitive.)
I agree. The conversations were really easy for the most part. You can tell within 1-2 choices what the guy in question likes, so all you really have to do is keeping picking the favorable option. I also found them to be the most interesting part of the game gameplay-wise. It’s cool to talk to someone and have your words visibly affect them. I kinda wish there were more of those scenes in the game.
Deus Ex: Puma Seduction did LA Noire’s main feature as a side-feature much better and without the ridiculously expensive face-reading technology.
Yeah, I too didn’t even bother with the social aug my first play through. Figured it’d be more fun to see if the engine could convey the conversations well enough I could reach my own conclusions, and it did. Interestingly, I too only had to redo the very first one with Zeke because I was experimenting and wasn’t completely sure his body language and reactions should be taken seriously or not.
One playthrough, I convinced Wayne at the police station to let me through by being nice to him, sans social enhancer, and I had no problems. I tried cajoling him with the enhancer next time,
but he was very bitter about letting me in. Also, when you encounter him in your apartment building much later, he shoots you on sight rather than having an awkward (albeit nonlethal) conversation.
I actually appreciate how manipulating people to get what you want had some unpleasant backlash.
Only if you pick the wrong options. There are CASIE options that make him not hate you too. I think.
That there are. I did the nice dialog options and later in the apartment it was a conversation with him, not a fight.
That’s the exact opposite of what happened to me.
He came to me angry, upset, and desperate for help and Jensen apologized and offered him a job at Sarif. He apologized and thanked me.
The CASIE aug is not necessary, no. But I think it’s possible to get people to do things they wouldn’t normally do with it, even if you win the conversation. As in, it opens conversation paths that are otherwise impossible thanks to pheromones and such.
You guys have to do Malik’s sidequest.
If you do Malik’s sidequest then you have to use the CASIE mod on her. For the lulz
I’m sensing a DLC pack here, Megan’s Mon II: The Reward.
Megans mon?Is that the sequel to the pokemon,or the digimon?
It’s a prequel to BOTH.
Actually, the China sections take place at day, but you don’t notice it because another city is built right on top of lower Hengsha. When you go to upper Hengsha you can clearly see the sun shining though.
By the way: am I the only who just didn’t get the whole [email protected]! thing with Deus Ex? For a while it got to the point where everyone got their little pet minority to complain about: For some it’s Letitia (“Well, Sheeeeeit. If it ain’t the Cap’n hisself!”). For other it’s the Chinese and for other it’s the Mexicans in the game.
I suppose this is one of those pesky “different peoples have different values”-thing. Just like the time Shamus linked that Disney video and I for the life of me couldn’t spot the horribly offensive racial stereotype in it.
But I can’t help but think that if Letitia would have been replaced with a stereotypical white-trash character, no one would have given half a fecal matter about it.
I’m pretty oblivious, but I didn’t know that this blatant caricature existed until the controversy was everywhere. I just never talked to her or really anyone else on the streets. Adam’s got a job to do, he might stop to shoot hoops and knock out some local drug-dealers, but he’s not going to stop and chit-chat with everyone in Detroit — even if it would only take two minutes total.
Hrm. Would it be possible for you to accept that maybe you just don’t happen to have the best sense for these things? Not that you should immediately defer to every assertion anyone ever makes about a racial stereotype, of course, but if you could at least act like it’s possible for other people to have legitimate concerns that deserve to be taken seriously, even when you don’t really get the problem yourself? That’d be pretty good. Like, instead of framing Human Revolution’s issue with stereotypes as “[email protected]!” with a capital R(idiculous), you could maybe just refer to it as “the racism thing”. Y’know, talk about it as if it was something people made a big deal out of, although you personally didn’t see the problem, as opposed to insinuating that people were just hysterically causing a fuss about nothing.
Also? You just said that when people talk about stereotypes in Human Revolution, there were problems with a number of different groups and characters, and that it wasn’t just limited to Letitia. So how the hell would replacing her with a white trash stereotype have changed anything?
Why don’t you take a trip to Detroit in real life? You can maybe meet some of those stereotypes in real life. Try not to get mugged.
What’s ridiculous about Letitia is that she acts more like a black woman from the 1970’s than anything contemporary (let alone 2027).
Without a trace of irony. Great. Great! Perfect. Good job. Have a medal. It’s yours. Congratulations.
That’s it! The 70’s thing.
You’ll notice in the episode I was quiet on the racism thing. Her character bugged me, but I wasn’t really comfortable charging anyone with racism. She just felt WRONG and out of place and I couldn’t figure out what was bugging me about her. And you’re right, it’s that her mode of speech feels wrong. It’s not the hobo thing, it’s the particular style used here. She talks like a 1970’s Marla Gibbs character. That style of speech is both old and played for laughs. (Which is probably where the racism comes in. A lot of those old shows seem racist because so much of the humor is basically, “Wow. Don’t these people talk funny and have amusing idioms?”)
It’s like if Max Payne ran into a guy with a bowler hat and a handlebar mustache. Okay, such a person COULD exist in that world. There are eccentric people in the world and all. But it would feel jarring and the sudden shift in tone makes the player think the writer is trying to get their attention and say something.
I couldn’t help but feel Letitia played up the uneducated bag-lady image. She is incredibly well-informed. She knows what’s happening in Detroit better than the cops and journalists do. From an investigative standpoint, slipping her some cash nets you more info than hacking half a dozen secure terminals. There are probably good reasons Jensen used her as an informant.
Except Jensen already knows she’s well informed so there’s no reason to play up the act to him.
I wonder. This style of speech,the shoulder pads, some of the architectural design choices – aren’t the designers just trying to put up this retro-future-70s vibe, like Fallout and the 50s?
Interesting. I remember thinking this character wasn’t quite right, but my take was completely different.
I travel quite a bit, and my initial reaction was that this was somebody (the developers) not American trying to affect a characterization with a character they (the developers) weren’t familiar enough with. Almost like the research they conducted was watching older movies and TV shows, and then trying to copy the stereotype. I didn’t see racism, just a character that didn’t quite come off properly.
I was bothered by her because, while it’s supposed to be evident from her digging in the trash can that she’s down on her luck in some way, she doesn’t look like a hobo in any sense. At least the other hobos have ratty looking clothing.
The reason DX:HR’s Detroit has lots of non-African American people in it, is because David Sarif has rejuvenated this 2027 version of the city, investing in it and bringing in many well-educated middle class people from outside to work for his company. A kind of cyberpunk-era gentrification, if you will.
Modern-day Detroit is of course a horrible ruin inhabited by the dregs of society. Time Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1882089,00.html) and the Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/23/detroit-decline_n_813696.html#218521) agree with me.
“Would it be possible for you to accept that maybe you just don't happen to have the best sense for these things?”
However, as I said I will accept the possibillity that some people will see things where I don’t see anything. That said, if you need to draw me a road map with diagrams and everything in order to explain why something is racists, after which I still don’t get it; then I’m more partial to the explenation that it’s not the work of fiction that’s the problem, but you.
I just have way to much experience with people who want to be offended for various reasons and who are always looking for excuses and stuff to blow out of proportion to get angry over.
And that’s not even getting into the different-cultures-different-sensibillities-thing.
“there were problems with a number of different groups and characters, and that it wasn't just limited to Letitia. So how the hell would replacing her with a white trash stereotype have changed anything”
The point. It was missed.
Sorry,but I have to voice an issue with your “If you have to draw me a map,and Im still oblivious,then its the problem with you,not me”.Thats just so wrong.Before I say anything,let me assure you that Im not trying to offend you,I dont know you,I have nothing against you,Im just using an example to show your argument is wrong.
Anyway,conspiracy nuts.If someone is so dense to believe that there never was a landing on the moon,you can draw them a map,and they still wouldnt believe you.Get them to the laboratory,and show them the readings from the lasers bounced of the mirrors on the moon,and they still wouldnt believe you.But that doesnt mean they are right,and that everyone is seeing something that isnt there,that just means they are stubborn idiots who cant grasp simple things.
With that said,I partially agree with your first point.I didnt see racism in deus ex,except for the letitia.She felt so wrong.
“I can't help but think that if Letitia would have been replaced with a stereotypical white-trash character, no one would have given half a fecal matter about it.”
Yes they wouldn’t. Because you know what, white people are still the majority in power and in the social environment.
Despite what is usually equated, there is a difference between prejudice in a single instance and racism; racism being when that prejudice reinforces a social construct which constantly belittles and cements stereotypes that force minorities into well defined roles so as to diminish their value on an equality scale.
See Infinitron up there who establishes the dominance of a stereotype over a huge stretch of human population with only one person calling him out.
See a film like The Help which diminishes the effort of black people towards equality by implying that the civil rights revolution was pushed forwards by a white woman.
See the way the media talks about MLK day, trying to describe the civil movement he pushed forwards as accepted demonstrations and ignoring all those times he was imprisoned.
See how low of a percentage of governments and top economical, educational or professional are occupied by POC.
See how so many people proclaim that they “don’t see race” just to pretend that there is no racism in the actual society and to avoid discussing that same subject matter.
See how we’ve gone through one mission of the game already and how many POC characters have we seen? The overwhelming amount have been white characters specially as we move upwards on the power and importance scale of the game.
That’s why one stereotype is bad. Because despite what might many people want to think, racism is still a very solid social construct and we honestly should not on this day and age allow such great and obvious elements of it to persist.
“See how we've gone through one mission of the game already and how many POC characters have we seen? The overwhelming amount have been white characters specially as we move upwards on the power and importance scale of the game.”
And do you think its racism that in hengsha as we move upwards on the power and importance scale,we see mostly chinese people?Or is it racism only when white people do it?
“Or is it racism only when white people do it?”
Really? You’re going there?
I can’t do nothing here except hope you educate yourself more because I have no desire to face strawmen arguments.
If you wish here is a proper page if you wish to self-educate yourself.
So much fuss for one insignificant character that many didn’t even talk to. Also most game devs being white and asian is also part of the big racist problem no?
I’ll not comment regarding the point of there being just one character characterized as such because I think I explained above how even just one racist characterization as such is bad.
Commenting on the state of the industry though:
It is true that the problem of ethnicity in game development is a big factor in this, just as it is a big factor in the lack of female characters in games. But it’s really only a problem with one solution.
The disparity in numbers of professionals in this area is relative to the previous generations of people interested in videogames. And this number is connected to how those people are treated and accepted when it comes to finding videogames they want to play.
If we want to increase the number of POC and women working on videogames then the only way to do so is making sure that we diminish the racism and sexism in our games and try to work for equality in those. That’s the only way we’ll get a more homogeneous workforce and the only way we’ll little by little fully resolve this kind of problems.
For now though, we need to raise our voices against those cases, to make sure that we walk those steps as quickly as possible.
Realize it’s the devs ip so there is no problem with having whites/asians etc. as the majority as long as the other races aren’t demonized(the dehr example is shitty writing not racism). It’s just annoying seeing you trying to force others do their things your way. I’ll stop the politics here.
I have to ask where you think I’m forcing my opinions on other people. I’m analysing a story, checking its flaws and the way it reflects and contains prejudiced trends, and discussing and explaining it to other people so as to transmit the problems in this work of fiction and why its important that we fix those problems. If you reduce this to its basics of argumentation I guess you could proclaim that, but how is it that what I am doing is any different from what any reader does when they rally against sexism?
Secondly, excusing racism because it’s their IP and saying it’s not racism because they aren’t demonized?
Like I said above racism is a social construct that permeates various layers of society, and as such is revealed not only in direct demonization but in various other factors. Consider the demographics of the USA in percentages, and then consider how pretty much all of the high ranking political and economical posts are occupied only by white males. If we take the demographics of Detroit for the past year(10,61% white, 82,69% black, 1,06% asian and 5,64% other), and consider how the world of Deus Ex is not made too dissimilar to our own to create a bigger identification to the player, then how do we explain the vast majority of white people we’ve seen so far in the Detroit of the game? Portraying an ethnicity in advantage contrary to what would be expected from reality is a huge prejudice. It’s not an active demonization of POC, and it probably was not even a conscious thought of the developers, but an unconscious action from normal people who have lived all along their lives with white privilege; and that’s normal, I suffer from the same privilege and I often caught myself making comments or actions which come from the same privileged position, but it’s important to realize those situations because it’s only by doing so that we can improve our works of fiction and our behaviours.
Yea dehr`s flaws aren’t its short length, small mission areas, boss fights, lack of melee combat, awful end level, primitive AI. It also had greedy retailer specific DLC. The writing isn’t bad because Jensen’s motivation is the old&tired “They killed my love!”, nothing interesting happens about the transhumanist problem, nor plot critical cutscenes where you can do nothing. No, it’s that one small allegedly racist character! Oh, and I’m sure having Jensen and other major characters be of color would have been such an improvement! I’m done replying to you since you’re blinded by one thing.
But the developers of this game arent from detroit,they arent even from the usa.And to the rest of the world,usa is uniformly distributed,so when we see that 70% of its people are white,we expect that to be the case in every city.
Thank you (mainly the link) for helping me find out why I avoid talking when the topic goes to racism:
Sooner or later both sides end up sounding like dicks.
“Sooner or later both sides end up sounding like dicks.”
Oh man. I’m glad I’m not the only one who feels this way.
I visited a friend after posting that and mentioned him the same thing. He agreed, so that makes three. He usually says something non-committal, so it came as a bit of a surprise. (I am also glad I’m not the only one.)
It might even be true Shamus, but if we don’t talk about it how can we expect the situation to improve?
I realize I’m already slightly beyond the line about politics that you establish on your blog and I’m sorry for that; but the truth is that this is quite the issue which is very hard to talk about regarding videogames and of which more talk is certainly needed.
Racism is a social problem that’s reflected a lot in videogames and that surprisingly gets more flak when it is brought up than even sexism. Do you remember when the issue came up about Resident Evil 4 and its accusations of racism? How many gamers where there that admitted that beyond the issue of logical consistency there was an uncomfortable trend of ethnic characterization? How many important characters do we have that aren’t caucasian?
Racism and sexism are two issues that suffer quite a lot on the realm of videogames, but the fact that the excuse of ‘there are no girls on the internet’ was used for so long seems to now lead to a bigger movement in trying to correct the wrong of sexual inequality; while at the same time ignoring that we still have a huge problem of ethic inequality, just that this inequality was never as obviously commented on as the other one.
Hope I’m not putting words in Shamus’ mouth, but note that he isn’t saying that the topic should be off limits in general. I expect him to be against the topic here mainly for moderation reasons.
Personally I do believe that it’s important and interesting to talk about racism in various media and in the behaviour of people. If I didn’t, I wouldn’t have read any comments on the topic here. It’s just that they tend to start as interesting, quickly turn discomforting, as opinions heat up, and then go foul. It only takes one person to ruin the discussion for everyone.
Okay, just in case anyone gets it the wrong way:
I don’t think either Drexer or Daemian Lucifer, or anyone here, is being a dick.
It’s just the person who wrote that blog post sounds like one. The reason why he alone was enough for me to realize it, is because I already knew that the opposite end up sounding like dicks due to having more experience with them.
I have to say something here:
Please do note that the blogger at STFUracists is someone who invests quite a lot of his time on calling out racist behaviour and attitudes across the web and the tumblr-sphere. In fact it’s this active duty towards ‘calling out’ that originated many of the STFUblogs and which lead to their popularity.
As such, the amount of racism to which one is exposed while reading and writing that blog is frankly astounding and even scary(just check the latest posts for instance regarding MLK day); and that accounts in a great part to the tone of the post. It’s a direct post, that works to get points across quickly and effectively and doesn’t pull its punches. Even so in my personal opinion I don’t see why it sounds so much to you why that post is written ‘by as dick’ as you put it.
It might not be written in the calm and slow manner that most social awareness books are written(and that’s exactly why I linked there instead of a book as such, because it’s far easier to expect someone to read that post than to read a full book), but I don’t notice any degree of hostility there other than someone who is quite a bit fed up with a lot of the current apathy towards racism.
Edit: Actually, scratch all the following. Here’s the short version: Note the emphasis on the word “sounds”, it’s important. He could very well be right about what he is talking about, but I don’t want to hear it because he sounds like a dick. You find someone like Shamus who is more than willing to explain things to me in a polite, calm and clear manner, I’ll listen. Heck, just name a good book. I can’t afford one right now, but I’ll get to it.
But he doesn’t get the point across quick. He might be quick compared to a book, but that’s not saying much. No doubt it feels shorter if you already share the view. And he “doesn’t pull any punches” only in the sense that he seems willing to attack anyone. He seems aggressive, in a bad way. He doesn’t explain basic things, like what exactly does “reverse racism” mean. In fact, he seems to present the quote at the beginning as an absolute truth, without any explanation or context.
I didn’t finish the post because his tone is, for a lack of a better word, repulsive. It pushes away and encourages to leave him to his flock. He doesn’t try to teach, but to preach.
Here’s a quote from me:
“He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster.”
I can appreciate what he is trying to do, but good intentions only go so far. I don’t know about his daily dealings with racists, and maybe he is better when dealing with people who don’t want know, but from that post I’m of the opinion that someone else needs to be the voice explaining things to those who already want to learn.
The thing that frustrates me in cases like this is the word “racist”. We have one word that’s used to describe a ton of different behaviors and attitudes. If you want to lynch a black man and murder him in public, you’re a racist. If you just think that each race is better off marrying & dealing with their own kind, you’re a racist. If you’re slightly nervous around minorities on the subway, you’re a racist. If you’re unintentionally rude to a minority because some aspect of their culture eludes you, you’re a racist.
This makes a mess of the discussion. It would be like if we used the word “rape” to describe everything from actual sexual assault to being rude on a date. It’s going to be impossible to get the rude guy to see what he did wrong if he first has to accept that he’s a “rapist”.
We need an alternative word for racist that means, “You’re being unintentionally rude to these people, it doesn’t mean you’re evil, but things would be a lot smoother if you didn’t do that.”
How about ignorant?If you are unintentionally anything offensive to anyone,I think ignorant fits perfectly.
Yeah, there’s that too. Anyone can claim that one particular interpretation is the right one, but how many will actually agree? You’d need to start the discussion by stating what you mean by ‘racist’ just so everyone starts on the same page. But then some will start arguing about that, derailing the whole thing.
@Daemian Lucifer: I’m not certain if that’s descriptive enough to help. You could just as well call them rude, and they wouldn’t get what the problem is. The way I see it, is that the only way to help others improve themselves is through a discussion, but most of the time people are not prepared or interested in it. Especially if you head off with an insult.
Thanks for taking the time to write this.
I can agree with Josh being annoyed by your looking-ahead thing. You guys are gonna get there eventually, why rush?
Don’t be Bethesda; spread your content around the whole series. :P
Suddenly I imagine this is an elaborate way to troll by Shamus. Early episodes? He keeps talking about things that will happen later in the game. Then later on when he has nothing to say, having said it all, it’ll be him talking about the first conversation with Sarif and things that happened in the beginning of the game.
Besides, its already been accepted as fact that Shamus is a time lord. He doesn’t need that fancy linear time coherence thing.
I got the feeling that the guy with the goggles had just come up from the lab. It gave me a sense of urgency for him. “Sheesh, you couldn’t even stop off to step out of your scrubs? This must be important!” Of course, since there’s no real time pressure it feels rather ridiculous later when I got lost wandering around the city and ended up killing a whole hive of gangsters. Luckily they stayed dead, which turned out to be quite convenient later. Dead gang members can’t detect you, as it turns out.
Acheivement Unlocked: Deus Ex Ex Ex; Romance Megans Mum/Cassandra.
That secretary sure was impressed with you too, might be able to work that angle.
Yeah, but you gain Renegade points if you choose the secretary, and you get locked out of Cassandra’s scene if you have too many Renegade poi…
What? I’m in the wrong comment thread?
If only her name was kelly.This way we cant be sure if she is just frendly,or of she has an alien fetish.
Or a Batman obsession .
Rutskarn will become a gravely voiced, black trench coat & mirror shades wearing bad ass with a katana up each sleeve as soon as his nuts drop. He will make all who have mocked him pay. Then he will stand in the corner and growl at the women like a dog who wants his master.
In the scene with Cassandra, you guys managed to invent the sexual equivalent of diablerie in Vampire: the Masquerade. Work your way up the generations; the older the blood, the stronger. It sounds like a Bioware game: seduce your way up the family tree.
You said that you don’t expect id level coding prowess and yet it’s one of the smoothest games I’ve played on PC in recent years, as far as a multi-plat is concerned. I would put it up there with Saints Row The Third as far as optimisation goes.
So, I initially misread this, and it reminded me of something someone shared on Fitocracy.
Achievements for coding in VS. I think it works well for working out, but coding?
I had some problems with mouse control in menus, the hacking minigame, etc. Sometimes it felt like it was translating my pointer movement and clicks into equivalent gamepad input, rather than following what I was actually doing. But aside from that, I thought it was a pretty good port – I was actually rather impressed when it was able to suspend and resume progress perfectly when my video card hiccuped. Every other time that’s happened in other games, they froze up and crashed, quite understandably. But HR just picked up again without missing a beat.
There’s been quite a few good PC ports, recently – I’m really hoping the trend continues.
Did you run on a lower-end system like me? I had issues with the hacking and inventory input when my frame rate dipped.
I had a few pointer problems like that, but I seemed to have ALL THE BUGS as well. I don’t know why it happened with my copy, but in 30 hours of Deus Ex HR, I hit more bugs than I did in 150 of Fallout New Vegas. There were a couple of mission breakers, too: the part of Malik’s mission where you have to meet a guy in the LIMB Clinic? He didn’t show up on hard. Turn down the difficulty, and he pops back into existence. One street in Hengsha would have civilians hurl themselves violently against the wall, and then the gangsters would shoot me. I learned to go around there.
So about you’re opinion of annoying the mom ruts… Are you saying you’d like to give her a poke.
Going for two in a row.
Okay, so if nothing else, this series cements Rutskarn’s inability to be racially sensitive.
Don’t you have a bar to go pick fights in? You know, I’m getting flashbacks to that one South Park episode where Stan’s dad took up to fighting in every single baseball he attended. You kind of remind me of him.
“Stan's dad took up to fighting in every single baseball he attended.”
How did Stan’s dad get admitted into a baseball? It sounds fun.
Ah,the age old question of how many randy marshes can fight in a baseball.
Counterpoint: it’s one of the funniest things in the game.
Absolutely! Never even noticed her in my play through, so when the ‘controversy’ popped up, I was all, “I missed THAT!? Dammit!” Totally would have been right there with Ruts goading on to see that!
I’m looking forward to the conversation with Letitia in the next episode…
Oh wait, I’m really, REALLY not!! :(
I just noticed, the outro music sounds like something out of Animal Crossing.
I think for the most part, the low number of people suits this area, it feels a bit run down and depressing, like most of the people who could have got up and gone away. Heng Sha would have been cool if it was really really busy but I think it would have screwed up some of the stealth elements later on, or at least exposed some flaws in the way the game works
Speaking as a complete and utter Human Revolution fanboy, I have to say that hearing Rutskarn call the game “kind of mediocre” makes me sad face.
I mean, yeah, it had some unfortunate weak points, but I’d consider it a step in the right direction at the very least…
Ah, well, different people have different tastes and all that.. Rutskarn thinks DX:HR is mediocre and SR3 is great, I think DX:HR is great and SR3 is mediocre, some people can’t play DX:HR3 for more than 3 hours because it’s not ‘Gears of Modern Dutyfare 13’ and only like SR3 because it has dildos…
So, yeah, different people.
I think HR wants to be a game for the head and sometimes succeeds. SR3 wants to be a game for the feet, and it always succeeds.
Both are good games, but HR has very lofty goals to meet. SR3 has it easier. So, comparing HR to the game it should have been, it is something of a disappointment.
Don’t kid yourself. SR3 isn’t a game for the feet, it’s a game for the butt. And also the dick.
It succeeds at both, far too well.
Human Revolution has more obvious flaws because it’s a more complex game. I think it’s fair to be critical of it and to say that something like Saints Row 3 is better from a pure gameplay and design standpoint, even if it’s ultimately less ambitious (unless you count ambition in dildos).
That said, while Human Revolution is an awesome accomplishment, it also doesn’t feel as effortless to me as the original game, or smart. It’s clearly more limited by modern design and gameplay conventions, and the inconsistency towards the endgame, in the boss battles, etc. shows either poor management and planning or a lack of a true understanding of what makes Deus Ex, Deus Ex. They captured a lot of the themes and imagery, and the art is fantastic, but the gameplay and especially the level design can often leave something to be desired.
Saints Row 3 is actually the opposite of ambitious. It’s largely a retread of Saints Row 2, and yet it has considerably less content. The appearance customization is far more limited, for one thing.
Having said that, I enjoyed Saints 3 quite a lot. But yes, ambitious is definitely not a word I’d use to describe it.
Well what else can you call a game that only reaches 7,5?Its in the middle of the scale,so it is mediocre.
(dont give me the actual score the game got,its irrelevant for the joke)
EDIT: Man, I am stinking this place up with all my derp. I did NOT just post something that was completely missing the joke, it was all in your head.
7.5 on a scale of 10 is well above average.
And that is the joke.
^ This was the perfect dead pan reply :D It’s like you set up your own brick joke with other people
Except if you use the “6 to 10/10” video game reviewer scale.
Lovecrafter seems to think it’s a 6 to 10 scale, to me it looks more like a high of 10 down to a playable failure of a game getting an 8, and everything below that considered a bomb (as opposed to “the bomb”). So, 7.5 is distinctly below average.
I’m not sure if I was right in interpreting some of those digs as being about Invisible War, but I actually thought the antarctic finale was done fairly well and was the only part of the game (except Trier) which felt like a proper Deus Ex game. Unfortunately it was also kind of poorly justified in the plot and I’m not sure it was adequately explained why JC Denton decided to go there.
Ahahaha that’s what I get for posting before watching the whole video.
One thing I want to vehemently disagree with is the way Adam starts with upgrades, if only because I think that regenerating health should have been something you have to purchase, rather something you start with. Just like the “play it Splinter Cell: Conviction-style” stuff is optional, I think the “play it like Gears of War” mode should have been optional. Also, not a big fan of it because they kind of lied about the number of augmentations in the game for marketing purposes. “Regenerating health” and “radar” are not “augmentations” if you start the game with them and have no choice in using them.
I concur, although I also think that there should have been health kits you can use, and have pain pills, stims, etc be temporary buffs. It’d certainly make more sense than my usual strategy of “pop all the pills, and drink all the whiskey” when dealing with shootouts. Regenerating health should have been upgradable, too. Nothing like realizing that your health bar is as high as it will ever permanently go, and no amount of PRAXIS will make it go up. (And yes, I know the body armor aug basically does that, but shut up, it’s the principle of the thing.)
This, so much. At least for regenerating health. I was really pleased the put in the “drinking alcohol heals you” thing, but felt that the automatically regenerating health made it sort of pointless. JC Denton starts off with a couple of basic upgrades (the HUD and infolink, iirc), but nothing as epic as health regen.
But then, I have fond memories of JC Denton lying shit-faced on a bathroom floor in Paris because I’d got him badly roughed up and run out of medkits! My solution was to locate *all* the alcohol in the area and drink it in one go. Happy days! :D
What happens in Paris…
The health bonuses are a bigger deal on the higher difficulty (i.e. the right way to play the game) because you die so much faster and regenerate so much more slowly. Boosting to 200 effectively doubles your staying power in combat, and allows you to take stronger enemies head-on. Unfortunately, the healing items in the game are very limited (especially Hypostims), to the point where you are still going to be relying on hiding behind cover to regenerate. I think this kind of hurts the combat balance as a whole and really takes the emphasis off of the skill in playing.
In the original game, you could actually get by on skill alone. You never needed to use the Ballistic Armor or any of the damage-sponging augmentations if you were good enough to avoid enemies or to dodge their gunfire using the speed augmentation. The game was an RPG in many ways, but there was also a level of player skill that really mattered in handling different encounters.
Human Revolution allows for pure stealth options rather well, and provides a nice sense of attrition (different alarm statuses), but in combat, you’re basically either alive, dead, or near-dead and waiting. Due to your slower movement speed you’re basically always going to get shot in combat, so winning is more a matter of using cover at the right time and popping the moles when you have an opening. There is no attrition, no variability in handling encounters, and the regeneration is almost cosmetic. Regeneration is interesting in the first game because, overpowered as it is, you’re still sacrificing a valuable resource – in Human Revolution it’s just what you do, rather than one option of many.
Long time lurker, first time poster. I always look forward to a new episode of Spoiler Warning. Please keep it up.
To be fair,gta doesnt have this amount of detail all the time.
Also,really what is wrong with Josh?He isnt trolling,he isnt killing everyone,he isnt bunny hopping.Is he at least going to start jumping everywhere he goes when he acquires the jump aug?(really thats the only way to travel)
Also,of all the comments I made today,just the one with the pokemon is up for moderation.Thats bizzare.
To be fair, I found it much more difficult to be a dick in this game because I very rarely wanted to. All the characters feel more human than anyone in Fallout 3/NV and the plot points make more sense than Mass Effect 2. I had no reason to lash out at the game most of the time.
…when I got the jump aug in DX:HR, I spent quite a bit of time riding a police ‘bot like it was a pony. :p
Damn my memory,time to edit the comment has passed by the time Ive remembered what I wanted to say.
The “I didnt ask for this” meme at least has jensen say the words,unlike the sup dog meme.
Can you download and read katawa shoujo and maybe write a post on that? i’d like your opinion. k, thanks!
i’m pretty sure it’ll not leave you disappointed…
Mumbles! What happened to your gold speech boxes?
10.26 is that harry mason?
ARRRrggh! It’s “an-TAR-ti-ca”, not “ANT-art-ica”! /doesntacceptpronounciationdifferences
Closing doors behind you: Heh, I’m the opposite! I leave doors open so I know precisely which rooms I’ve visited and which ones I’ve yet to explore/hack/break into. XD The only times I close them behind me is when I need to be stealthy, because having closed doors in the way helps muffle sound over distances and keep people from accidentally spotting unconscious bodies lying around.
Pre-rendered cutscenes: You know… I don’t think those are actually pre-rendered cutscenes. They’re actually made using the game’s own engine, but there’s some sort of layering effect put over it so it looks darker and more cinematic. You can really see this effect happening in a really late conversation in the game with Hugh Darrow, when he looks outside the building and you can see the close-up pixellation of the birds flying outside the window.
7:20: It looks darker? Well, DUH Shamus. Adam’s wearing sunglasses indoors! ;)
8:40: Not true, Rutskarn. Several parts of the game in China take place during the day. ;) It just SEEMS like it’s night due to the Pangu hanging over the lower city. And it’s bright daytime when you get up into the TYM tower.
11:55: Yeah, it was REALLY dumb how there wasn’t an option to, “Geez, man, why did you have to tell me all of that? Now I’ll have to do my job and arrest you!” :P
J.C. Denton: Aww, come on! J.C. had some hilarious lines! Like the time the terrorist yells to you that he’s got a bomb, and J.C. replies in the most bored, deadpan voice, “A bomb’s a poor choice for close-range combat.”
“I never asked for this”: Yeah, the line was used in the official trailer, and it just… caught on by the meme crowd somehow. It does make for some amusing rebuttals/rejoinders though. XD
Letitia: I have to admit that I never thought her manner of speech was racist. There are other people in the area (mostly male) that use the same type of accent, so I figured it was just the local dialect/slang in Detroit. After all, Eidos did quite a good job in using authentic Chinese speakers for locals during the China missions, so I figured they’d do the same thing for the other town hubs.
I think they’re pre-rendered because Square Enix does them. Maybe it’s PC conversion thing, but on the consoles the pre-rendered look a lot better than the game (and I haven’t noticed in-game HR looking prettier than console HR)
But I agree there was jarring that they had all this cwl lightning and then suddenly it would snap out and be day again. Definitely not a good thing
I read an article about Deus Ex: Human Revolution in Game Developer Magazine. It was a “Postmortum” article where the writer interviewed the developers and asked them to list five things that went right with the game’s development, and five things that went wrong in their opinions. The developers said they wanted to do all the major cutscenes in engine, but they ran out of time and development focus while they worked to polish other areas. In the end, they contracted the FMVs to the same 3rd party who made the promotional videos. There were a few other interesting facts in the article. I recomend looking for it.
I really liked the Sarif offices. On one of my early visits there, I went around hacking into peoples’ offices and nicking stuff because a locked door is an *invitation*, dammit. Then the next time I was back, I found an email on Jensen’s PC from some guy that was worried about a recent spate of thefts, and could Jensen please check his office to make sure it was secure! XD
I totally missed the “walk in the front door” approach to the police station too. Though part of me really wanted to do a 21st century version of the police station mission in Thief 2, so I refuse to feel bad about it. If I replay, I’ll give chatting up chappie a go instead.
Unfortunately you get those emails even if you haven’t been going around other people’s offices.
Really? Dammit. D: D: D: And I was so impressed with it too. Was convinced they’d gone for a classic DX-style “world reacts to your actions” thing. Now I feel kind of cheated. :,(
Are you sure? I can’t remember reading them and I’m not sure I knew about them until I started hearing other people talk about them, and I didn’t steal on my run. I could have just forgotten about it though (but I did remember the other references, like the toilet and the vents)
Actually, those e-mails (about the secondary thefts) only appear if you’ve been TAKING stuff from the offices. This includes even things like Pocket Secretaries and candy bars on Pritchard’s desk etc. I know because I assiduously avoided taking ANYTHING on my third playthrough, except for stuff in my own office, but I DID enter offices that Athena sent me the access code for (to investigate the Neuropozyne thefts), but still no e-mails appeared. However, at one point I accidentally grabbed a Pocket Secretary from a drawer, and immediately the next time I returned to the office, the e-mails were there waiting for me.
Ah that might be why I got a couple. I did grab a bar off of Pritchard.
Maybe Deus Ex is set in the Arctic Circle in the winter. So it’s dark 24/7
On the subject of sidequests, I feel like you also need to do the Acquaintences Forgotten quest. Please?
So,basically they should do all the sidequests?
Yes, there is only one sidequest that shouldn’t be done (well I didn’t want to extort the lady either, but at least its interesting)
Man, I honestly preferred it to Deus Ex 1, but yeah, I can see how it’s a fair let down at times
Of course, I first played the first Deus Ex and Invisible Wars back in 2008 or so (also the time I played HL and HL2)
This is a really good lets play series…but man.
Calling Human Rev. “mediocre”?
What? That shit is gonna get taken out of context.
Either we have tastes and standards so wildly differentiated that there is no point me listening to anything Josh says, or he badly misspoke. From any angle I view it, it’s a ridiculous statement. I just can’t imagine that anyone who enjoyed this game on any level also managed to find it less than above average in the things it essays to accomplish.
By all means criticise the numerous flaws, nitpicks and missteps. No one is defending the boss fights or Endo-tron2000. That’s why I’m watching this! Some story decisions and gameplay mechanics are controversial and subjective, and it’s enlightening to get other views on it. And, was it objectively better than Deus Ex? No, for many reasons, it probably isn’t better than what is widely acknowledged as the best PC game of all time.
But if a game can try this hard, do so much right and get so little wrong and get labeled as average…fuck’s sake brah.
This industry isn’t going to get better if efforts worthy of high praise for so many, many reasons, don’t get that praise. Gears of War is ‘average’. CoDXX is mediocre. Fallout 3 is OK. Human Revolution is not like these. By throwing them in the same bath, you are telling publishers that it doesn’t pay to try. Why support the Eidos team over standard AAA game assembly line?
Let’s review how many things should have been wrong with this game and are not:
* Reboot/resurrection of a classic franchise by a new dev team…that doesn’t rape the corpse and sell the body parts of its predecessors. That actually manages to capture the style, themes and tone of the original without being a tired remake.
* RPG/FPS hybrid done well, in 2011 (with the fresh memory of BioShock 2 still trying to be blotted out). If it isn’t a proper Looking Glass or Spector “immersive sim”, it’s the closest thing we’ve seen in ten years. It’s significantly better than any of the Mass Effect entries, which people cling to as the best examples of the shooty-rpg in recent times.
* Mature, competent tackling of complex social and ethical issues.
* Good story. Good writing. Good dialogue. Good voice work. All in what looks like a ‘shooter’ and is actually fun. This makes it practically unique right there.
* Multi-platform release that manages to not insult one or another userbase.
* Not scarred by massive DRM issues.
* Great AAA title not by one of the evil twins of Activision / EA
* Complex gameplay not gutted in favour of ‘accessibility’ or ‘wider audience’.
Again, nitpick on these. They aren’t perfect. There IS DRM. The gameplay IS dumbed down compared to the original. But its a huge stride, not a step, in the right direction, and you end up with a fun, deep title that is worth multiple replays.
That is not a mediocre effort. It’s a classic that is not perfect. I despise the ‘entitled gamer’ idea, it’s an irrational and ridiculous assault on consumer rights in almost every case – but this is the closest thing to it. If you want the next game to be that perfect game, the intended fan base of the title should not bandy such a condemnation as ‘mediocre’ around unless they really mean it.
I don’t have ANY IDEA what you’re on about. It’s been moths since I recorded this, and I don’t even know which host you’re talking to. I have many positive things to say about the game and my final thoughts were also quite positive.
So… I don’t know what, or who, you’re arguing with.
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