Spoiler Warning S4E11: And this is
my favorite [noun] on the Citadel

By Josh
on Dec 15, 2010
Filed under:
Spoiler Warning

It seems that we’ve finally gotten bored with all of the mindless shooting and awesome explosions, so with this episode we’re bringing you very special presentation:

Spoiler Warning: NOBODY DIES


Link (YouTube)

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A Hundred!2020202015I bet you won't even read all 195 comments before leaving your own.

From the Archives:

  1. Daemian Lucifer says:

    But,but,…but you didnt punch the reporter!

    Shamus,boo is angry with you not knowing who boo is!And when boo is angry minsc kicks some butt!!For goodness!

    Mumbles,its nice to know youve studied scientologists history.

  2. Deadpool says:

    Thank you Rutskarn! I was about to make a comment about the Space Hamster reference and there you are… Shame on the rest of you for forgetting Minsc and Boo!

    I find it odd that the game defaults to a dead alien Council but this scene makes SOOOO much more sense with the alien Council alive…

    Btw, did you notice the whole “Kaidan’s location is classified” response? CLASSIFIED? I’m a god damned Specter, with the highest clearance on, like, the UNIVERSE. AND the only human Specter to a human Council. AND the guy who gave you your JOB. AND the human council’s job. AND your personal god damned friend! And you STILL can’t tell me where he is? Fuck you Anderson! Shoulda let Udina be the Ambassador…

    Although, maybe this explains this scene. It defaults to UDINA being the Ambassador, right? Bet this scene makes more sense then…

    Still, on the grand scheme of railroading, I find that the final big choice in the game to be a much worse example than this one.

    • Daemian Lucifer says:

      Well it does make sense to keep your classified information away from someone who was dead for 2 years and is now working for a terrorist group.You wouldnt really expect from someone in cia to give you the location of their spy when you disappear for 2 years,and then do a few jobs for the taliban,even if the guy was your childhood friend,or a brother.

      Why you cant just say “Fuck cerberus,I wanna go back to being an official specter”,thats where the dumb railroading comes from.Though it couldve been made to work if they nixed the whole “you die in first 5 minutes” and instead had to deal with citadel bureaucracy first,then with cerberus as a last resort.

      • Deadpool says:

        Yeah, but that’s a reasonable excuse for the Council, or Udina, but not ANDERSON. Anderson is your boy. Anderson is a personal friend. And he knows I need all the help I can get!

        Hell, logically, if they were really worried I went rogue, secretly ordering Alenko to join my team as an Alliace spy would make more sense than hiding him from me. Now I have extra back up and the Alliance has eyes on what I’m doing. And if god forbid I’m telling the truth, they now know for sure…

        • Daemian Lucifer says:

          Again,even if he is your man,you dont give out secrets to potential enemies.That was the staple of espionage and politics way in the past,is now,and probably will be in the distant future.

          But yes,it wouldve made much more sense to have one of your old team mates as a spy with you.Way better than having them there as simply a bitch/dick for no reason.

          • Deadpool says:

            If we accept the idea that Andreson doesn’t fully trust you, then this whole “you can’t work with the council” ordeal might make some sense…

            • Piflik says:

              Maybe Bioware wrote the Council to be that stupid on purpose…to make it just as bureaucratic and powerless as politics today :D

              • krellen says:

                Then they probably shouldn’t have spent the whole first game writing up the importance of the Council.

                • Daemian Lucifer says:

                  The what of the council?Sure,they are treated like this big fancy club that humans want to enter,but what do they really do?They dont give you money,ships,manpower,…They dont even give you information,you have to dig up everything on your own.”Yeah shepard,we heard a rumor about this person maybe knowing something about seron,go check it out.Meanwhile we will just remain here dealing with more important stuff.Apparently there is someone throwing trash out of a trash can on the presidium!We cannot allow that!It threatens the whole galaxy!”

                • krellen says:

                  The Council leads you to Virmire.

                  I’ll admit that the Turian Councillor is consistently an ass, but that’s sort of his job. He’s the “bad cop” of the Council (to the Asari “good cop” and the Salarian playing “skeptical proof guy”.)

                • Daemian Lucifer says:

                  And how is that one different from what Ive described?”Shepard,we heard from our scouts on virmire that seron might be there,but we lost contact.Go there and investigate.We would do it ourselves,but you know,pressing matters on the citadel and all.Whats that?You need better equipment for the mission?Well buy it then,why tell us about it?”

                  Face it,they were useless in 1,they are just as useless in 2.The only difference is that in 1 the alliance gave you a ship and crew,and here even they became the useless bureaucrats.

                  Though,at least in 2 they have a reason for keeping things quiet from you and not giving you any support,because you are with cerberus(for whatever dumb reasons that is).In fact,when I think about it,the council is much better written in 2 than in 1.

                • krellen says:

                  Being somewhat useless in 1 makes a small degree of sense, as there’s a “who’s this FNG here making demands of us” factor to things.

                  In ME2, however, you’re the individual responsible for not only saving the entire Citadel, but the Council itself. Continuing to be jerks at that point makes no sense, and the only way it can make any sense is through the excuse of killing off Shepard with a random mystery attack in the first five minutes of the game, which is also stupid.

                  Stupid does not excuse stupid.

                • Daemian Lucifer says:

                  In 1,even if they dont want to support you because you are new,saren is an ex specter,knowing all their secrets,knowing citadels defenses.Hunting saren should be priority.And if you are the only one theyll send after him,no matter how much they dislike you,they should support you with everything they have.

                  In 2,you are working for terrorists,so why should they do anything for you?No matter what you did before,you still are a cerberus agent now,so its perfectly sensible not to trust you.Sure,it makes no sense for ashley/kaiden to forget all of your past deeds,because they arent government.But the council has the whole galaxy to worry about,and personal feelings cant be mixed with that.Its how secret agencies are working now,so why should it be different for the futurew?Especially when one of the council members is part of a race of spies,and the other is part of a race of soldiers.

                  Just because your actions are stupid,doesnt mean that the council is stupid by extension.

    • Josh says:

      Hey now, I was the one who first mentioned the “Miniature Giant Space Hamster!”

      • Deadpool says:

        You know what, you’re right. Shame on Shamus and Mumbles. SHAAAAME!

        • Mumbles says:

          Sure is hipster swagger in here.

          • Deadpool says:

            Did you expect anything else?

            • Mumbles says:

              It only makes sense that I would shroud myself in hipsters to hide my own true identity.

              • Deadpool says:

                Errrr… Bruce Wayne?

                Actually, now that I think about it, we know little about you Mumbles. Shamus posted Rutskarn’s blog up, but I don’t remember seeing a link to yours… Or even if you HAVE one. All I know is you liked Bioshock, you played ME and Team Fortress, and you have a tendency torwards Paragon choices. What’s with the secret..ive…ness… Pretty sure it’s not a word, but you get the point!

                • Mumbles says:

                  I am pretty secretive. For the longest time, people didn’t even know I was a girl. And, actually, I just soft launched my blog yesterday, funny you should bring that up. Check it: http://digitalmumbles.com/

                  This past month, I’ve been working on a Minecraft Mixtape that’s going to be posted later today.

                • Deadpool says:

                  Deadpool, your friendly neighborhood advertisement set up guy! No we just need Josh’s blog and the Spoiler Warning Blog Team (SWBT?) shall be complete!

                  And errrr… what people didn’t know you were a girl? Remember, I only know you as the girly voice in Spoiler Warning…

                • Daemian Lucifer says:

                  Uuuh,a music enthusiast linker?Ill have to follow your blog closely.

                • Mumbles says:

                  I honestly don’t know why he doesn’t have one by now.

                  I used to write album reviews and before then I ran a comic book- hey wait a second. You’re getting me to tell you things! About my past! Like that time I punched out a guy for handing me a gin and tonic! I mean that didn’t happen!

                • Deadpool says:

                  Comic book reviews? That explains the Batman fascination (although, nowadays, I’m more of a Red Robin fan)…

                  Why would you punch a guy for a free drink? Or do you just hate gin and tonics?

                • Mumbles says:

                  The Red Robin comics are REALLY hitting their stride, even in the face of shitty Stephanie Brown Batgirl crossovers. Honestly, I have more affection for the Batman vs(&) Robin series where Dick Grayson had to take up the cape and cowl in absence of Batman. Which is saying something, because I have almost no respect for Grant Morrison otherwise.

                  Reasons why I punched a dude for handing me a gin and tonic
                  A) He was annoying me all night at a frat party. I told him to step off. He did not.
                  B) Never accept OPENED drinks at frat parties.
                  C) Gin and tonic is for old people.

                • Daemian Lucifer says:

                  D) Mumbles likes punching people.

                • Deadpool says:

                  You couldn’t pay me to read a Morrison comic. Some writers get a free pass for work well done before (See JMS) and some get insta-ignored for poor work before. That’s Morrison for me. I keep hearing wonderful things about his new Batman, but I can’t forget the fact he’s the kind of writer who believes the metaphor is more important than the plot. Meanwhile, I’ve always been more of a “Moby Dick doesn’t work as anything until it works as a WHALE first” kinda guy…

                  I didn’t mind the Batgirl crossover much because I kinda expected it (Tim and Steph is that elephant in the room that HAS to be dealt with), although I’m one of the few people who preferred Red Robin when Chris Yost was writting it. sure, he was a bit emo in the first few issues, but it had to be dealt with for him to end up where he is now. I keep getting this nagging feeling that Nicieza is just looking for excuses to throw hot chicks at Tim (and no, having the character acknowledge that doesn’t make me feel better about it).

                  I know, I know, large part of comics is that boyish wish fulfillment (see Spider Man and his popularity) but it doesn’t endear me to the practice any more…

                  Oh, and don’t get the wrong idea, I’m all for punching out creeps. It just sounded like a funny story: And it was. did you throw the drink at him afterwards too?

                • Mumbles says:

                  Grayson will always be my favorite Robin, but Tim is a very close second. I think he deserves to have hot women thrown at him. He’s just as charismatic as he is smart.

                  Nah, I slapped it out of his hand and then punched him. I was very upset with myself that I didn’t splash it in his face. A girl only gets to do that once…maybe twice in her life.

                • Veloxyll says:

                  Those are all 100% valid reasons to punch someone.

                  Did you punch him in the FACE though?

                • Blanko2 says:

                  didnt you also clock that guy over at PAX west?
                  EDIT: and rutskarn dint make her a cat sweater, but ee did make her a banner. aaweee

                • Roll-a-Die says:

                  @Mumbles

                  What’s your opinion on Warren Ellis?

                  //Note: coming from a guy who would probably spontaneously felate Spider Jerusalem if he were real.

                  //Those of you who don’t get that reference, GO READ TRANSMETROPOLITAN. You’ll either love it, or find something new to bitch about on the internet, so it’s a win, win.

                • Mumbles says:

                  @Veloxyll I’m more of a gut puncher, myself. Trick is to grab their shoulder and just smash your fist as hard as you can into their diaphragm.

                  @Roll-a-Die Ellis is my man. Spider is my god.

                  @Galad I soft launched because I wasn’t completely ready to go, but wanted to see what I could do before posting music. It’d be like announcing to everyone that I was half naked.

              • Christopher M says:

                Shrouding yourself in hamsters would be cooler.

                @Deadpool: She has a twitter…

                • LurkerAbove says:

                  All this hate on Stephenie Brown is making me sad. I like Red Robin, but I think Batgirl is just as good if not a touch better.

                • Deadpool says:

                  *shrugs* Yeah, I don’t do that Twitter stuff… or Facebook for that matter. For a nerd and a net fanatic, I’m pretty far off the social sites.

                  I don’t know about HER, but I don’t hate Steph. I just didn’t like the crossover… I like Batgirl okay (although that detective both she and Barbara has a crush on thing is really eye roll worthy too).

                  I do like Red Robin better though…

              • Galad says:

                what does “soft launching” a blog mean?

              • Avilan says:

                …As a guy it’s easy to forget how much more paranoid most girls has to be. Sad, that.

                Anyway, I like the new Batgirl. Almost as much as the real Batgirl (now Oracle).

                I have never liked (any version of) Robin.

                Oh and I bookmarked your blog.

          • RTBones says:

            Hey, its hip to be square!

    • Nidokoenig says:

      Clearance doesn’t matter if you’re not involved with the mission. You don’t have a right to rifle through every file and read whatever you damn well please, you need to demonstrate need to know. A military classification system that lets just about anyone with clearance read just about anything is very rare and usually a reaction specific circumstances, like the US military’s response to 9/11 which let anything up to 3 million people have easy access to things like war reports and diplomatic cables so they could join dots better. If you haven’t been living under a rock, you’ll know why clearance+need to know is the accepted standard.

  3. Galad says:

    “11 billion players”? “Galaxy of Fantasy”? I bet whoever came up with that conversation was snickering at him/herself the whole day xD

    I’m not the only one who has more faith in the SW team than that, right? Sure, I found out about it from random forum browsing on the Bioware forums, but even I know where the Space hamster reference comes from :) So I think they simply didn’t remember that quickly..I hope..

  4. Amnestic says:

    You guys edited a save? Yay! <3 Wrex is still alive.

    Edit: That conversation is even better if you wait until you have Legion and bring him with you. It’s so totally retarded how they’re *still* denying it with a live Geth there telling them so.

    • Deadpool says:

      I never thought of doing that… That must be awesomely hillarious.

      Well, I planned on making a new save for ME3, now I know what I must do… Anyone else got some fun ideas?

      • Amnestic says:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWGgeRUjDSY <- Video of it. Enjoy the facepalms. Especially with the goddamn Turian Councillor. I swear if we don't have the option to punch him and his goddamn "airquotes" in the face in ME3 I'm…going to be mildly annoyed.

        • Deadpool says:

          Not as exciting as I thought it would be, but still amusing.

          Btw, anyone else think Kaidan/Ashley are being mind controlled?

          EDIT: Yes, great geth security you guys got there! Glad to know everyone on the Citadel is safe…

        • Chuck says:

          Show him a video of London under Reaper attack. That’ll shut him up.

          • Deadpool says:

            “Well, how do we know that’s not a doctored video made by Cerberus, just like that video you got from the Quarian in Freedom’s Progress? And all those messages we get scereaming ‘Dear god, the Reapers are here and they’re slaughtering my family!!!’ aren’t just fake messages ALSO sent by Cerberus to distract us from our REAL work? We can’t be wasting resources inspecting every single fake video or fake call for help from PEOPLE. We have important work to do!”

            • Chuck says:

              Then you have him committed to a mental institution for Terminal Idiocy :)

              Or just shoot him. The only reason I save the council anyway is cuz I’m a nice guy and I know it gets humanity a good rep with the other species.

            • jdaubenb says:

              I expect the Turian councillor to slack around on a couch Al Bundy style for the largest portion of Mass Effect 3.

              • Chuck says:

                I wouldn’t call the Turians racist, there just paranoid about us after the “war.” They might have a deep-seeded fear that had the war gone full scale, they might have lost, and that scares them.

                I think too much.

                • krellen says:

                  Humans used tactics the galaxy had never seen before, and though the force occupying Shanxi was only a minor scout force, the Alliance fleet completely destroyed it.

                  I don’t think you’re wrong about the Turians. Their biggest fear absolutely is that the humans are going to replace them, because the humans are just better fighters than they are.

                • BanZeus says:

                  I wouldn’t necessarily say humans are better fighters, but on a galactic scale the Alliance goes from backwater to superpower overnight. The idea that a species that only managed to first break orbit less than 250 years ago could pose a credible military threat to them has got to be a bitter pill for the Turian Heirarchy.

                • Piflik says:

                  Humans used tactics the galaxy had never seen before, because they are stupid…who in their right state of mind would put a pilot in a small spaceship and call it fighter?

        • bit says:

          Oh god, the lampshading! The lampshading burns my soul!

          Although at least they have to gall to make a joke out of it with the “geth infiltration” bit.

        • TSED says:

          I really want the council to call you for help, and there to be a renegade “Nope, screw you,” option.

          Of course, the conversation would go something like this:

          Some Council Member: Shepard! Help! We’re under attack by the reapers, if you don’t do something we’ll die in minutes!
          Shepard: Ahhh yes, “reapers.” The sentient race of starships allegedly waiting in dark space… You had dismissed that claim.

  5. Ouchies81 says:

    “GO FOR THE EYES BOO! GO FOR THE EYESSSS!”

    Yah, Minsk and his miniature giant space hamster insured he was in every party.

    That and, “NOW, Minsk leads. Swords for EVERYBODY!”

  6. Grudgeal says:

    You know, for all their bitching, at least the spared alien council deigns to talk to you face to face. Well, holograms to face. The human council does not.

    Of course, the aliens spend the face time being unrepentant asses towards you. And the turian councillor does air quotes.

    Death was too good for them.

    • swimon says:

      In fairness the air quotes and his incredibly sarcastic voice is hilarious even if that cover up is stupid.

    • Supah_Ewok says:

      Not making a Human Council that you could meet would make sense to me if Dead Alien Council was not the default choice. You would have to make a few new characters, give them lines, and personalities. (even useless snarky asshole is a personality)You would then have to carry this over into the third game. Why go through that work if Saving the Alien Council is the default, and therefore canonical, choice?

      Of course, Dead Council IS default. So really, there’s no good excuse for not making a Human Council.

  7. Daemian Lucifer says:

    Does anyone else feel sorry for saren?The guy gave his mind,his life and his reputation,just so he could expose sovereign and slow him down enough for the alliance to prepare,and for the whole galaxy to have a chance of survival,and no one except you knows about his sacrifice.And he is later even accused to be the mastermind behind all,and even to have fabricated the reapers.To me,saren is a bigger hero than shepard.

  8. eri says:

    I’m really disappointed in you guys. You’ve replaced all the wanton slaughter that made this show exciting to watch with a bunch of boring, plot-related dialogue and exploration. For shame. If I wanted to think, I wouldn’t be playing video games, I’d be back in school!

  9. Josh R says:

    Sunshine, lollipops, and, rainbows everything that’s wonderful is what I feel when we’re together!

    Yo dawg I herd u lyk gamin so I pyt a gaym in ur gaym so you can gaim whyle U game!

    Oh God – I’m not sure I will ba able to resist playing Sunshine Lollipops on a loop loud enough for everyone in my house to hear.

    • Deadpool says:

      On a relateed note, anyone else wish we could get Tali earlier too? Everything IS better with Tali…

      Bioware released some of those random ME2 stats, was there are “percentage of people who used Garrus and Tali as their main team through most of the game” one of those stats? Cuz I’d imagine it’d be pretty high…

      • Amnestic says:

        Because some characters have dialogue for earlier missions than you can get them (I believe Legion has some dialogue in Garrus’ mission), I believe that at some point you could get characters earlier than you can in game but they must have changed that around at some point after the dialogue was recorded.

        Don’t know why though.

        • Bodyless says:

          because they had to split the content, since it didnt fit on one dvd for the xbox.

          So yes, me2 would have haven far better if they didnt make a xbox version.

          • Daemian Lucifer says:

            I think same can be said for most(if not all)games.

          • eri says:

            The Xbox version comes on two discs? Excuse me a moment…

            AHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAH

            • krellen says:

              And the finale is on the first disc, for some reason (so you have to switch back to disc one when you start the suicide mission). It’s really stupid.

              • Kanodin says:

                Actually I can kinda see the logic behind it. Make all the first disc stuff mandatory (recruiting all of the first 4 party members and I assume the Horizon mission) then when the world opens up even more switch to disc 2, leaving space on the first disc for the suicide mission.

              • Taellosse says:

                No, the really stupid part is that you can install both discs onto a hard drive with the current 360 software, but it STILL makes you switch discs. Even though the only reason it makes you put it in at all is for disc-check purposes, so you don’t try to install the game to the hard drive and then sell the game discs.

      • Daemian Lucifer says:

        Also,dont tali and garrus share a conversation about elevators while on citadel?That one was funny.

      • Josh R says:

        I’m struggling to find the related note that you are allegedly on :S

  10. Hitch says:

    Where can I learn more about Mumbles’ Hobo Punching Theory of Economics? This intrigues me.

  11. Bodyless says:

    Too bad you missed the speach of the turian councilar:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Oc-pstqpc

    epic…

    • bit says:

      Ah yes, “Turian Councilor.”

    • Moriarty says:

      first youtube comment:

      Reaper-Councilor: Ah yes, “Shepard”. A returned from the dead Human-Spectre of the Alliance Army allegedly waiting in Citadel Space to destroy all Reapers.

      We have dismissed that claim.

      Harbinger: >:|

      • Newbie says:

        My favourate…

        Stares at incoming reapers

        Sheperd: Garrus!

        Garrus: Yes shepard?

        Sheperd: We’re going to need bigger guns.

        Garrus: Can it wait for a bit? I’m in the middle of some calibrations.

        Garrus is so annoying when he avoids speaking with you… :(

  12. Jarenth says:

    Josh: I’m in the process of watching the video, but I had to pause it when I heard that you guys cheated to save Wrex to say this:

    If we ever meet in real life, I’m buying you a drink for this.

    • Chuck says:

      Ditto.

      And for not having Udina as ambassador. I REALLY want to shoot that guy.

    • Jarenth says:

      So having watched the rest of the show, here’s some more personalized comments:

      Shamus: Man, your nerd cred took a big hit there. I recommend making your next post one long list of un-commented programming code; that’ll show the hecklers who’s nerd boss around here.

      Rutskarn: If you don’t use that Udina voice in the next Chocolate Hammershow to annoy Jibar and Phase to the point of them ragequitting, I will be sorely disappointed.

      Mumbles: You should write more history. You should write all the history.

  13. Vect says:

    Dammit, I keep getting the whole “An error occurred, please try again later” message. Problem is, whenever I try later (few minutes/hours) nothing changes…

  14. Gale says:

    Shamus. For heaven’s sake. You spent more time talking about Cerberus in that scene than the council did. They say it right there: they’d recieved reports that Shepard was working with Cerberus after two years of silence, which they find suspicious, so they ask that she explains herself. That’s it. They decide to offer her no support for a bunch of other bullshit reasons, but Cerberus barely comes into the equation. I don’t understand why you insist on spending this much time harping on such a non-issue, when there are plenty of other silly plot holes to mock in that same scene.

    • Daemian Lucifer says:

      But it is an issue.Sure,the council is justified in not helping you because of cerberus,but what reason do you have to work for cerberus and not go back to the council?

      – Because they wont help you?Thats bullshit.The only reason they wont help you is because you are working for cerberus,and if you were to just ditch them,the council would gladly take you back.I mean you have this amazing ship with you.Offer it as a proof that you dont care about the dumb terrorists.

      – Because they dont believe in the reapers or the collector threat?Bullshit again.In the first game anderson barely believed about the reapers,but he still helped you stop the threat,at great risk for himself.And even if they dont want to publicly do something for the colonies in the terminus sector,they did send an alliance soldier to one of them to install defenses.Im quite sure they wouldnt mind a shadow operative like a specter investigate this even further.That is what specters have always been doing after all.

      And yet,because the plot says so,your only choice is to say “screw you guys,Im off with cerberus”.Though you can say it in three different ways.

      • Gale says:

        “The only reason they wont help you is because you are working for cerberus,and if you were to just ditch them,the council would gladly take you back.”

        But that’s not even kind of true, and is exactly the problem I had with Shamus’ complaints. They don’t help you because of all the other bullshit about the Terminus Systems and not believing in the Reapers, but they don’t say all that much about Cerberus. It’s “We heard you’re working with Cerberus, what’s up with that?” At the beginning, and at the end, they say: “Look, if you have to work with terrorists, fine, we’ll give you your title back, but try not to cause trouble for us, will you?”

        Look, let me make myself clear. I’m not defending this ridicilous exchange between Shepard and the council. I think the whole situation is an excuse cooked up to gloss over a gameplay contrivance that’s only there to serve as padding, and I think that all the stuff you mentioned in your second point are undoubtedly glaring flaws in the plot. But it’s because there are so many other, actual plot holes to discuss, that I find it so nonsensical that Shamus insists on ranting about this issue that doesn’t seem to exist. Am I even hearing the same dialogue as you? Where are you getting this stuff about the council refusing to work with you because of Cerberus? Here’s all the lines regarding Cerberus I can find in this very episode:

        Anderson: “Rumours that you’re working with Cerberus haven’t helped. What are you doing out there?”
        Shepard: [Talks about Reapers and their pets]
        Anderson: [Also talks about Reapers and their pets]

        Shepard: “What happened to Staff Lt. Alenko when the Normandy was destroyed?”
        Anderson: “Staff Commander Alenko is still with the Alliance, but he’s working on a special mission. It’s classified. I can’t say any more. Not while you’re working with Cerberus. I’m sorry.”

        Aside from that, it doesn’t come up. Alternatively, when the council survives ME1:

        Turian: “This Reaper theory proves just how fragile your mental state is. You have been manipulated – by Cerberus, and before them, by Saren.”

        Asari: “We are in a difficult position, Shepard. You are working for Cerberus; an avowed enemy of the council. This is treason, a capital offence.”
        Anderson: “That’s too far. Shepard is a hero. I’m on this council too, and I won’t let this whitewash continue.”
        Asari: “Maybe there’s a compromise. Not a public acknowledgement, give your ties, but something to show peripheral support.”

        Asari: “Good luck with your investigation, Shepard. We hope for a quick resolution… And a quick end to your relationship with Cerberus.”

        They strongly disapprove, but this is after they refused to help you because of bullshitbullshit. I don’t understand how that can give the impression that Cerberus is “the only reason” they refuse to help Shepard investigate the colonists, and that leaving Cerberus would mean that the council would “gladly take you back”.

        • swimon says:

          Asari: “We are in a difficult position, Shepard. You are working for Cerberus; an avowed enemy of the council. This is treason, a capital offence.”
          Anderson: “That’s too far. Shepard is a hero. I’m on this council too, and I won’t let this whitewash continue.”
          Asari: “Maybe there’s a compromise. Not a public acknowledgement, give your ties, but something to show peripheral support.”

          Because of Cerebrus you won’t get a full acknowledgement as a spectre only peripheral support. Which means that you’re not a full agent so to speak which means that you still need to work for Cerebrus. If there was a possibility to quit the stupid terrorist organisation you could become a full spectre. Sure there would sill be mistrust and whatnot like the first game but the fact that the council distrusts you doesn’t seem to stop any other spectres.

          • Amnestic says:

            To be fair, how much support did they give you in ME1 anyway when you were a full Spectre? They gave you the Normandy and…a few leads. And that was about it.

            Oh, and Spectre Weapons once you’d earned enough of your own money since they didn’t see fit to actually pay you.

          • Gale says:

            “Because of Cerebrus you won’t get a full acknowledgement as a spectre only peripheral support. Which means that you’re not a full agent so to speak which means that you still need to work for Cerebrus. If there was a possibility to quit the stupid terrorist organisation you could become a full spectre. Sure there would sill be mistrust and whatnot like the first game but the fact that the council distrusts you doesn’t seem to stop any other spectres.”

            That’s ignoring the fact that the council had already refused to do anything about the enormous amount of colonists being whisked off, giving reasons entirely unrelated to Cerberus in doing so, and point blank mocking Shepard for being so insistent about the Reapers. Even if Shepard wasn’t working for Cerberus, they still wouldn’t do anything to help her. They see Shepard as mentally unstable, at this point, fixated on a fantastical threat that couldn’t possibly exist. Shepard could give Cerberus the finger and go back to working directly for the council, but even if she did, their stance on the matter of the colonists, the Collectors, and the Reapers, would be just as unhelpful as it is in the game.

            Which is why my position is that, while the things the council says are almost entirely ridiculous, it’s inaccurate to assert that Shepard working for Cerberus is the sole significant reason why the council are unhelpful. I don’t know why people keep taking that to mean I’m defending all the bullshit excuses ME2 throws around.

            • krellen says:

              The other reasons are all completely stupid and made up bullshit that is a complete 180 from the first game. At least “working for Cerberus” is a sensible reason, and being the most sensible, it’s the easiest to grab on and rant about, because it’s a lot easier to just ignore the completely bat-shit insane stuff outright.

              • Gale says:

                Yeah! They are bullshit! That’s why you don’t need to invent some other bullshit, when there’s perfectly good bullshit right there to make fun of! You’re just saying things for the sake of being contrary, now.

                • krellen says:

                  I rant about the made up bullshit too, you know.

                • Gale says:

                  Well sure, you might, and you might touch upon how unfair it is that the Council are all “Why are you working with Cerberus, they’re jerks” when the choice was never yours to make – but I was never really talking about you. I brought it up because Shamus has been acting like the Cerberus thing is the only reason the council doesn’t help you since the start of the season, incessantly mocking the circular logic of “You’re working with Cerberus because the Council won’t help you because you’re working with Cerberus” at every chance he gets, breezing past all the other bullshit they say in favour for this slightly relevant reason that barely comes up in the conversation.

                  Hell, in this episode, we met Anderson, and he told us why the council wouldn’t help, and Shamus was so busy complaining about the Cerberus thing, he didn’t even notice that Anderson only brought them up twice, as a passing comment!

                  This is what my point has been. I have no particular love for Mass Effect fiction – considering Shamus’ past comments that he treats the mistakes so harshly because he knows that Bioware can do better, I have far less respect for them than he does. I just find it irritating when somebody insists on harping on about a complete non-issue, to the point of ignoring the actual problems that a scenario has. After all, I know Shamus can do better.

                • Gale says:

                  Then… If there’s some part of the exchange that I’ve missed, a reaction I’m forgetting, a line I’m overlooking, please, point it out to me. I honestly don’t understand what makes this the significant problem with the scene, especially considering the other things that are said. Why is it this point in particular that makes it the go-to complaint about the Council in ME2? I understand that it’s an incredibly stupid thing to do to a story, and that the way the entire role of Cerberus was handled incredibly poorly throughout the game, but I just don’t see where the basis for this is. I don’t understand where it came from.

                • krellen says:

                  “Because you’re working with Cerberus” is the easiest of the excuses to fix, mind you. If their problem is that you’re working with Cerberus, the simple solution is to stop working with Cerberus. The option – or even the offer of the option – isn’t there, and it should be.

                  There’s not a lot of solution for “we think you’re a crazy madman”, but “we think you’re a traitor” has solutions that at least should have been explorable.

                  • Shamus says:

                    What Krellen said. It was the part of the scene that made me angry and seemed like such a lazy contrivance.

                    The other problems are mostly things that I got after I thought back on the scene and try to make sense of it later. But the charge of being a traitor was flagrantly absurd, since the game never gave me the ability to act in any other way.

                • Deadpool says:

                  I think the worst is our continued focus on the Reaper. Okay, fine, let’s pretend the Reapers are fake. The Collectors are real enough. And they’re taking human colonists. We know that. WE HAVE IT ON HIGH FRIGGIN DEF VIDEO. I could bring come Quarian experts to prove the video’s validity. Collectors are kidnaping hundreds upon hundreds of human colonists for some nefarious purpose and the council (alien or human) do NOTHING about it?

                • Jarenth says:

                  ‘Quarian experts’.

                  That and five credits will get you a space sandwich. I highly doubt that the Council (any of the two) will be swayed by testimony from a race of people that are essentially treated as space gypsy stereotypes by all other races.

            • Daemian Lucifer says:

              Yeah,but I really doubt that they actually see the reapers as a fictional threat.Sure,they tell you that,but then again,you are a guy working for cerberus,so why thrust you?For all they know,cerberus might very well be aligned with reapers.So it does make sense to mock you about it.

    • krellen says:

      It’s even worse a bit later when you get the mission to go to Horizon. Despite all attempts to make you believe you’re working “with” Cerberus because you “have no choice”, that mission makes it painstakingly obvious that you are working for Cerberus, under the direct (and unquestionable) command of TIM. He tells you to go to Horizon, and go now (instead of to whatever mission you were going to do when he interrupts), you have to take his call, and then you have to go to Horizon. No choice at all. TIM orders, you obey.

      The game has a similar problem when it decides the Reaper IFF is “ready” to install. It gets installed, no matter what you actually want to do.

      In ME1, if I wanted to ignore Liara for most of the game, I could. Sure, the game pressures me to go get her, but it never forces me to.

      • Ringwraith says:

        Horizon has a point, you have to go now or never be able to go at all, as the point is you’re hoping to catch them in the act.

        I liked the odd forced mission it threw you, gave everything a sense of urgency, even when there kind of wasn’t. More than most games manage.

        • krellen says:

          They should have had the source be someone besides TIM, then. Because, seriously, bleep that guy. He sucks. I hate him, and I spent the entire game wanting to have a “go to hell” or “*shoot in the face*” option with him.

        • Galad says:

          yanking the player away from interstellar fun..what a way to break immersion =\ (I haven’t played ME2 so in case there’s less interstellar fun in it than in ME1, ignore that comment.)

          • krellen says:

            There is less interstellar fun, but there is still interstellar fun, and that is exactly what Horizon does.

            • Daemian Lucifer says:

              Frankly its much better than rpg trope of “We need to get to that battle quick,the dark ones are on the march!”,and then you dick around for a week or so,in order to get the matching boots,and arive just in the nick of time.

              • krellen says:

                I disagree. I very much enjoy playing video games at my pace. It’s one of my favourite parts of RPGs. The solution is just to make sure you don’t write the completely overused “OMG we need to rush NOW or everyone’s DEAD” storyline in the first place (or only introduce it within a mission, not in front of the mission, as the first game did with the Conduit on Ilos.)

                If I want a rush plot, I’ll play a tabletop game with friends.

                • Daemian Lucifer says:

                  Im a completionist as well,but I still laugh when they say “Hurry,or the king will die!The enemy is at his doorstep!”,and then I get to take my time to mop the sidequests.Mass effect 2 didnt strike me as rushed at all.Sure,there are a few mandatory missions that you must do as soon as you initiate them,but I still had plenty of time to finish everything before theyve started.

                • Deadpool says:

                  I’d much rather ignore BOTH. And Bioware did something like that with the crew rescue ordeal, so why not here?

                  If you dick around, you miss out on the mission. You get to see a cutscene where people are captured and killed and you don’t talk to Ashley/Kaidan (long term effects on Mass Effect 3). After a few side missions, they announce ANOTHER colony in trouble (they can reuse the art and enemies to make making several maps cheaper). After the third ignored one, it’s game over.

                  A bit expensive, but not overly so…

                • Andrew B says:

                  Personally, I’m the complete opposite. I find it really, really hard to ignore the disconnect between a main plot (that is almost always time dependent in some fashion) and a sandbox world. Don’t get me wrong, I love some side-quest action, but it always sits a little wrong with me to be off doing some minor favour when the BBEG is planning world domination.

                  I for one welcome our new forced quest overlords. (Assuming they are done with logical, characterful execution, which judging by this series so far, I can’t be sure about.)

      • GiantRaven says:

        I’m probably the only person who would have liked more of this in the game. The ending would have had far more impact if you didn’t have time to do everything, like only having the time to do 7/10 of the loyalty missions or not being able to get all the upgrades. It seemed strange to me when I came out of a ‘suicide mission’ with only one fatality.

        • Dude says:

          Absolutely! That would’ve made replays all the more worth it, rather than just finding out the second different way Shepard can say, “Do I really have to? Sigh!” like a badass.

  15. Josh R says:

    They should have had udina be able to reinstate your spectre status (and have that mean something) and anderson, with his lesser beurocratic ability, not be able to to get you to be a spectre again, but tell you what kaiden is up to…

    • Rick W says:

      Udina could reinstate Shepard as a Spectre, but doesn’t want to.

      However, if either other choice is made (that the Destiny Ascension and the Council survived the first game, or that Anderson joined the Council instead of Udina), either the Council or Anderson offers Shepard reinstatement as a Spectre. It’s up to you whether (s)he takes it.

  16. Freit says:

    This season of Spoiler Warning inspired me to reinstall Mass Effect 2 for another run-through.

    I started one last night, and was shocked to find that the beginning of the game has seen substantial changes. Now the Illusive Man’s motivations for resurrecting Shepard are far clearer, and the Normandy’s battle with the Collector ship makes a lot more sense. There’s a LOT of new dialogue, CG and animation, and a lot of the old stuff is gone or cannibalized. Bioware took all the criticisms to heart and addressed a great many of them.

    I’m not sure if these changes are because I have installed DLC (everything except for vanity items and Kasumi), but it almost feels like a new game.

    Since Spoiler Warning used the old beginning, I thought I’d chime in, just in case y’all weren’t aware of the changes. :)

    • Kanodin says:

      Wait what? I’ve started replaying to and I didn’t see any of that. Could you give an example please?

      • Freit says:

        I had to check again to make sure I wasn’t crazy. :)

        An example from the very beginning…

        When Miranda and TIM have their first conversation, Miranda had a speech which originally ended with “and still it’s not enough.” See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVkqOo6cAVc at the 1:48 mark.

        In the new version, she continues: “They have her hunting geth. GETH! We both know that’s not what the real danger is.”

        TIM and Miranda also reveal why they need Shephard. Having humanity ascendant wasn’t enough to bring the aliens to their side (i.e. willing to work with Cerberus). They need Shepard, hero of the Council, to do that. No other human has her almost mystical reputation with the aliens.

        After the Miranda/TIM conversation, we switch to inside the Normandy. The crew comments on how they’ve been patrolling the sector for geth for days and finding nothing. Suddenly, the woman at the radar station spots a new ship. She thinks it’s a cruiser, but Joker comments that the signature is unknown. No one in the crew is worried, because they’re in stealth mode. When the mystery ship sets an intercept course, radar woman points out the geth have never been able to see through the Normandy’s stealth. Joker says they’re not geth, and belatedly takes evasive action, allowing the Normandy to be hit by the first Collector beam.

        The Normandy is far sturdier this time around, and doesn’t explode immediately… it stays together as a burning hulk, and there’s enough time for crew to leave in escape pods very reminiscent of KotOR. Kaidan tells Shep, before leaving himself, that Joker’s set on going down with the ship. Shepard then goes to try to fix that.

        That’s just the start. There are a ton of changes in the Lazarus project base, too. I haven’t played past that yet.

        • Amnestic says:

          That…doesn’t seem new to me. That plays pretty much identical to how it did when I first played it at release, without *any* DLC.

          • Freit says:

            I feel sheepish, after checking videos. :) You’re absolutely right. Strangely, though, I have very vivid memories of a completely different opening… o.o Hope I’m not going prematurely senile. :) I’ll chalk it down to aggressive daydreams.

        • krellen says:

          I pre-ordered the game (a mistake I shall never repeat), played it on launch day. That’s how the beginning has always been.

    • X2-Eliah says:

      I have no idea what you are talking about right now. New beginning?

        • X2-Eliah says:

          Hate to break it to you, but I don’t have the ‘paid-for DLC’ (beyond the cerberus network thingies), and all those ‘new things’ you mention are right there, in my game.

          All that you’ve described above I saw when I first played the game – back on release (okay, a week after that).

          • Freit says:

            I feel silly now, after checking all the YouTube videos I could think of… I’ve never had memory troubles, but I distinctly remember, in detail, a very different opening. o.o I’ll chalk it down to vivid dreaming. :)

            • Amnestic says:

              01:57-02:02

              Miranda: “But they’re sending him to fight Geth. Geth! We both know they’re not the real threat.”

              The differences in conversation likely depend on your ME1 choices regarding the council.

              • Gale says:

                Yeah, if the Council died, they talk about how great it was that Shepard quietly removed the old council, preserving much of the Alliance fleet, and set up a new, human-led council, ensuring that the political and military might of humanity is stronger than it’s ever been.

                If the council lives, they talk about how great it was that Shepard proved the usefulness of humanity, saving the council, and winning humanity’s place among the ruling council races, ensuring that the galaxy trusts humanity more than they ever have.

                Freit just imported a different ME1 save. Or imported a save at all, since dead council is what you get with default Shepard.

  17. Amnestic says:

    Just curious: Have you guys got any intention of cutting up the older Spoiler Warning episodes and uploading those to Youtube as well? Now that I can watch in so many p’s, I don’t want to go back to the smaller Viddler videos anymore. \o/

    Obviously not a huge issue if you’re not as I recognise it’d probably be a fair amount of work to go back for the umpteen episodes and do yet more editing on them.

    • Daemian Lucifer says:

      Wouldnt it be better if they just uploaded their episodes on some torrent site without any reduction in quality?

      And please guys,would you?I am proud of my new connection and ability to stream hd video without a hitch,but I still love having stuff on my hard drive.

      • Josh says:

        All of the episodes through Season 3 were done in Windows Movie Maker, which even at the highest quality settings generally doesn’t turn out sutff that looks very good, so the jump in quality wouldn’t be terribly significant.

  18. Ringwraith says:

    On the subject of the seemingly random ability to do paragon/renegade options on the shopkeepers, I think that’s because they’ve made it that way to show that some people are more receptive to certain method of persuasion, the turian obviously has a pretty low image of humans, so it takes a fair bit to persuade him, though simply feeding his views and jumping into an argument is much more effective.
    Likewise, trying to accusing the souvenir shop of classism is much harder to pull off then simply bringing up the fact that you’re a former Spectre and would be willing to give an endorsement, (although you can get away with it if you’ve been reinstated without needing to give an endorsement, effectively a staff discount).

    • Kanodin says:

      Sounds plausible. Now I’m curious if there are any other characters they did that to. It’s also one of the rare cases where your decisions matter, as if you save the council that Turian merchant is very friendly.

      • Avilan says:

        Not very, he still doubts your prowess as a warrior until you start talking like a big game hunter (basically) and then he is impressed and gives you a discount.

  19. guy says:

    Now that we’re finally at the citadel, I can whine about it properly since I know what decisions you made. It makes little sense to me that the council doesn’t want to see you in this timeline. The background politics are annoyingly unclear, but the fragmentary news reports indicate that the Volus and Elcor get to vote on the council now, and at least one original council member lost their representation or got reduced to nonvoting representatives or something. By my count, at least half the council has reason to be grateful to shepard, so why don’t they meet with you?

    I’m also kind of ticked at the relative shortage of background information on the New Galactic Order. I do forsee rocky times ahead, since the Turians apparently flipped out and declared that five times as many dreadnoughts as the humans just wasn’t enough, and they’d build as many as they feel like.

    In the other timeline, the mere existence of the Thanix cannon makes me want to punch the turian councilor extra-hard in the face. His intelligence service salvaged Sovereign’s main gun, finding out that it had technology that allows the Normandy to blow up the collector cruiser with two shots and proceeded not to tell anyone. I find it extremely doubtful they’d actually still believe Sovereign was a geth warship. (the Thanix cannon can be gotten from Garrus right now).

    Also, there is no, “You know that ship I docked here in? It’s full of terrorists I’ve been pretending to work with. Arrest them and take it.” option.

    • PurePareidolia says:

      “well actually, don’t take the ship – just arrest them and then give me a bunch of alliance crew members. Feel free to take Jacob and Miranda, but leave Joker with me. And leave my engineers alone too, we play poker on Wednesday nights. Chakwas who?”

  20. poiumty says:

    Shamus, Shamus. You haven’t played Baldur’s Gate 2. You disappoint me. It’s awkward that you’re this D&D geek and love playing RPGs but you missed the staple of D&D RPGs.

    Anyway, the thing with the Space Hamster is that it’s deliberate. When you clicked on Minsc’s hamster in his pack, he made a sound like someone saying “squeak” and then toning the pitch way up. If you buy the space hamster, go into your cabin on the Normandy and use the hamster cage, the hamster shows up and does the exact same sound after a while.
    The other reference to Minsc is in one of Tali’s battle cries when she summons her drone. She tells it to “go for the optics” while Minsc shouted “Go for the eyes Boo, go for the eyes YAARGH!” There’s also another reference to BG2 in the name of her drone.

  21. Specktre says:

    Oh my gosh… I was cracking up through the whole freaking episode.

    Loved your Udina impersonation Ruts.

  22. Double A says:

    Yo dawg we heard you like RPGs, so we put an RPG in yo RPG so you can level while you level.

  23. Zaxares says:

    Favourite Everything on the Citadel: I have a suspicion that this will be addressed in ME3. :D I deliberately made one playthrough where I gave a endorsement to every single shop just to cover this base!

    • Ringwraith says:

      Glad to know I’m not the only (insane) person who did this.

      Though I also simply found it incredibly amusing to have the same message played in every store.

      On my first playthrough I didn’t even know that would happen until the second shop, as I thought there would be a different endorsement for each store.

  24. Cadrys says:

    Rutskarn’s Udina rant immediately flashed me back to college..

    “Oh my dear, how boring, he’s defecting.
    Just like all the others, he’s expecting
    us to be impressed with what he’s done here
    but he
    hasn’t stopped to think about
    the paperwork his gesture causes
    we’ve an Embassy to run here!”

  25. tjtheman5 says:

    Yo, Dawg, We heard you like gaming so we put a game in yo game so you can game while you game!

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