T w e n t y S i d e d
A few notes on some housekeeping changes here. Sorry to bore you with non-entertainment content, but I’d rather say this once in a post than a half dozen times in email:
I’ve updated the site theme. Quotation boxes should now have more than 40 characters across, and the home link on the top should now actually link to home.
On the downside, I had to remove the neutral and evil themes for now. Sorry about that. About two years ago we had an interesting thread talking about why some people prefer black backgrounds and some people prefer white. At the time I thought it was due to environment (lighting) or hardware (size and brightness of your screen) but after reading what people said I’m now confident that different people just work differently.
It came down to a choice between Super Cache (which I need in place if I don’t want the site to go down when I get links from a really big site) and the theme switcher. They were not compatible and the theme switcher wouldn’t work properly for people who never left comments. (That is, a vast majority of visitors.) It IS possible to make the two work together, but not without writing the plugin myself. A caching plugin is a large and complex task, and I’m not up for that level of project at the moment. This isn’t a problem that can be sorted out with just a couple of hours of hacking, anyway.
As an olive branch to the dark background fans, I’ve altered the default theme so that it’s a couple of shades away from pure white. Hopefully this will make it less painful for you to read. This change in experimental, and might change again based on feedback. I’d like for the site to be just right for everyone, but we can’t have that. So the goal now is for something we can all live with.
Feedback on the theme and site behavior welcome.
EDIT: I said in the comments below:
Bethesda’s Launcher is Everything You Expect
From the company that brought us Fallout 76 comes a storefront / Steam competitor. It's a work of perfect awfulness. This is a monument to un-usability and anti-features.
This Scene Breaks a Character
Small changes to the animations can have a huge impact on how the audience interprets a scene.
Project Frontier
A programming project where I set out to make a gigantic and complex world from simple data.
A Lack of Vision and Leadership
People fault EA for being greedy, but their real sin is just how terrible they are at it.
If Star Wars Was Made in 2006?
Imagine if the original Star Wars hadn't appeared in the 1970's, but instead was pitched to studios in 2006. How would that turn out?
Looks good to me. I like the not-quite-white background more than either of the previous themes.
Edit: The comments look a little weird with a gray background though.
While i strongly prefer the evil theme the current light grey is acceptable and a lot better than a white background.
The darker shade helps, plus I just hit ctrl plus sign on firefox to increase the size of the font for the whole site by one which makes it readable again. On most sites with white backgrounds I have the fonts increased to ludicrous sizes to avoid eye strain.
So thanks!
Also your comments with the gold lined box don’t show up as nicely on the lighter background. With chaotic evil they stood out like a sore thumb. A sore thumb someone set on fire.
Looks good. I have to agree with Cybron on the comments thought. Maybe make the gray boxes there a slightly different shade of gray?
Looks like regular white background to me? Certainly not what I’d call “grey” or even noticably darker. Perhaps something isn’t working quite right for me.
I can live with this… maybe looks a little bit half-baked (I was vaguely expecting some other colour to load over the top of the grey until I read the post) but I’m here for what’s written on top of the background.
The #1 thing on my wishlist for this site? Full article text RSS feed…
Looks pretty good to me, I’d prefer a slightly darker shade (I’m one of the dark background people myself) but it’s a good compromise.
Have you considered orange on green?
Could you possibly lighten the grey a little? I’m not sure if other people feel this (I’m a white on black person myself, when programming at least) but this colour has made it harder for me to read some of the longer articles.
Perhaps just a little off-white, rather than grey?
Additional: I just realized that to integrate theme-switching with super-caching I’d also have to re-write my dice roller, since it needs different images for white and black, and those would need to be controlled by the CSS.
:(
So the choices primarily were black text on white or white text on black? The obvious solution is to go with grey text on grey…
Compromise: the subtle art of ensuring that no one is happy.
I love your site no matter the scheme. I’ve always been more concerned with layout, and you have mastered that.
I couldn’t actually tell the gray was different from the white [I’m one of those who like the black] until i hit the comment boxes. at that point it became really obvious, and much easier on the eyes.
any of the colours you currently have for comment boxes are probably good page colours, actually, Shamus, though i think the yellow you use for Your comments is probably best. [of course, then you’ll need to find a different comment colour :)]
also,now that i look back up the top, the fact that it’s gray rather than white is quite noticeable there too. psychological thingy, i guess? hehe.
anyway, if you could only have one, i do like this better than the white. it’s nice.
anyway.
As someone who prefers light-on-dark, I’m perfectly fine with you disabling theme switching for chaching. But I feel keeping the default Black on White scheme would look better, giving a higher contrast to read by.
I totally understand; you have to do what’s best for the site.
I am a diehard black-bg person due to eye-sensitivity and therefore I do miss the Evil theme. However, I truly, truly appreciate making the BG a tad darker–the gray is much, MUCH less painful to read for me than the pure white was. So while I miss the black, this is more than acceptable, and I appreciate your concern and thoughtfulness in the compromise.
And really, the kind of pearly-gray looks awesome. The die colors look much cooler against it. so kudos all around. :-)
Here’s a project idea (not necessarily for you, Shamus) but how about a Greasemonkey script that would implement the alternate themes? Just thinking of a way to have the themes that wouldn’t interfere with Super Cache.
Well, your blog looks far better than my website when the browser is told to use white on black no matter what colors the site specifies…
Is there a Firefox addon that intelligently makes “light on dark” without the page becoming so much only-white on only-black?
By Jove, Shamus, this is your best theme yet!
Meh. I was a true neutral anyway. I would like the grey background to be a few shades darker, but I agree with all who said “its better than white”.
David, the Readability bookmarklet could be what you need
You can find it here: http://lab.arc90.com/experiments/readability/
There are other bookmarklets that do the same job, but finding them is left as an exercice to those interested :)
I preferred the white background myself, but it hardly matters anyway.
I think i’d prefer either just a little darker or a little lighter. As it is right now the color makes me think the brightness on my monitor is off.
I preferred the black, but this is much better than the pure-white.
Also I’m having thoughts spinning through my head on how to combine multiple themes and caching without rewriting the plugin, so thanks for killing any hope I had of getting productive work done today.
EDIT: Given that people who leave comments get the uncached version anyway, perhaps you could reactivate the theme switcher only for people who have left comments?
The background seems very white to me… I used to have it set as Neutral, and I’m sure it was a good grey colour.
Too much white makes my eyes hurt! The grey was a nice compromise, and the black was very jarring when tab-switching.
I’m liking the black text on light grey. I’d prefer a tiny bit darker background, but this works well.
Well, thank goodness!
I thought I’d broke the intarwebs again!
I was freaking out, pulling my hair (Okay, I admit it, I don’t have much to pull), about to call the presses!
To where had my eye soothing black screen run away??
And then the stark bright white of yesterday…
Ack!
I searched every possible button and link I could find, and no alignment changer!!
KHAAAN!!!
This brings us to today.
A shade of grey/gray/grehy that is better than stark white (though a shade darker would be great for me), and an explanation!
I fully approve of your compromise and explanation!
Well done, sir! Well done!
Bravo!!
/applaud
I also cannot tell the difference between this compromise theme and the Lawful Good theme. At all. Which works out well for me as I always used and preferred the white! I am glad it’s helping the people who liked the dark background though.
Ok, now the grey background is working, along with different colours for the comment boxes that other people were talking about.
OK, I do somewhat miss my old CN theme, but the toning-down of the background has at least robbed it of the “staring into the sun” intensity that turned me off the LG theme. Frankly, white needs to be used sparingly for on-screen stuff; use a light background if you must, but try to avoid using pure white as the background.
I even set up my word processing apps to use light grey backgrounds.
I find the new grey background nice. I was using the neutral theme anyway though, so it’s not a huge change.
Seems like a good compromise. If you can’t have light and dark, might as well average them out and make everyone moderately happy.
My personal opinion: The people that take the time to comment (a massive minority) are probably not a representative sample of the readership.
The vast majority of websites are black on white, so I think most people are OK with that. For those who are not, I highly suggest getting an accessibility program that inverts colors on the screen.
All macs can do this by default, and there are third party apps for PC that can do it as well. Sure inverted colors mess up images, but it will solve the larger problem of extended reading on an uncomfortable theme.
It was still a white background for me until I ctrl F5 it. That said, looks good to me. But I’m on Firefox right now. I’ll tell yuo how it looks tomorrow on IE6 at work.
I’m going to be one of those criticizing.
I code with a background darker than this grey but I never have a problem with that because the code is in nice small chunks. With this black on grey however I found there wasn’t enough contrast to easily read the middle couple of paragraphs in this article.
I always used the Lawful/Good theme but I’d even prefer the Chaotic/Evil one to this.
Also Eric J makes a good point, I’m sure there’s someone who could implement a Greasemonkey script for it within a couple of minutes although it wouldn’t help everybody and you’d need to have a copy of the old good CSS file too.
I think the new theme is fine, but then I always preferred the True Neutral one.
Grey is a bit bland I will admit, but I don’t mind it, white always made my eyes hurt.
I love the gray. Better than white or black. Maybe the blue comment boxes could be a nice warm cocoa. And then we can get some red and burnt sienna throw pillows.
I Use Stylish in FF to make this site (and every other site I visit regularly) look the way I want it to, so I never even notice the changes you make unless they cause conflicts with my user CSS.
I think it’s great if sites give you an option, but whether they do or not the power is in our hands to to control our own experience (unless they wrap everything in Flash or something similar, and even then I often remove headers and other cruft to bring the useful content front-and-center).
I was a Neutral fan, so this looks great to me!
It feels plain. I think simply leaving it at neutral and letting the naysayers go hang would a good idea. Anything but the infinite featureless plain!
I agree with Eric (#17) and Blake (#34). It wouldn’t even have to be a userscript, though; it could just be Javascript built into the site. Javascript which uses cookies to drive DOM manipulation would work even if it’s cached. If all the theme selector does is switch out a CSS file, that’d be pretty easy to pull off.
I’ll take this one Shamus. The black was my fave certainly but this is a LOT easier to read for me than the white.
Plus it also might be easier to read than the black as well. At least the quote boxes.
I approve so I am sure now that you have MY approval you will finally be able to sleep at night.
Go on, rest. You have earned it.
I was going to bring up the Stylish extension for Firefox, but Benny Pendentes kind of already did.
I don’t actually use the thing very much myself, as I largely stopped keeping up with the innovations of webpage language just as CSS was starting to be introduced, and so I don’t know enough of how the stuff works to make my own effectively. However, if someone (perhaps even you, Shamus) were to design user styles to work with this extension that covered the bases of your other themes, you’d probably appease most, if not quite all, of the people who don’t care for the current look (or some close variation).
I seem to remember some time back reading a post where you discussed the browser preferences of regular visitors here, and the majority already used Firefox, so it wouldn’t be all that difficult for those interested to get the extension and download the user style for the site.
The nice thing about Stylish is the work of loading any differences from your site’s appearance would fall on the individual visitor’s machine, rather than your server.
This particular shade of grey is very strange. It’s almost, but not quite, the “default” Windows grey.
It does beat pure white, though. While I’m used to pure white, it isn’t until I switch to something that isn’t that I realize how glaringly bright it is, especially in a darkened room.
I’m a fan of the new look.
I would suggest creating a sort of launch page that wouldn’t be cached at all, it would check user cookies, and send them to their own page (one for each theme) which would in turn be cached. Basically take the blog out of index.php and make theme specific pages. The only downside to this is links to your site would always be in the linker’s theme rather than the user traveling to it.
The Grey is definitely a good compromise. Though: I would prefer to keep things as they were, and be allowed the gorgeous chaotic evil theme.
It just seems better to me to give everybody what they want most of the time, and half of everybody, in the not-most-of-the-time time. This, rather than to give everybody half of what they want, all the time.
(IT MAKES SENSE TO ME, OKAY?)
Rephrased: I liked the old system, bugs and all, better than the new compromise, because I didn’t find the bugs particularly bothersome.
You HAD to switch your site to gray on the day I had a 9-hour shift full of heavy rain, oppressive humidity, and cranky customers.
Truly, God has a sense of humor. (Shout-out to my Georgia homies!)
Being a dark backgrounder, it’s going to be a little difficult for me personally to read your site with the light gray background. Don’t get me wrong, I’ll still visit like I’ve done for the past almost year or so, but the average visit will probably diminish. I’ve just got a real problem with light (not even bright, mind you) background. Even with my monitor’s brightness turned way, way down, it’s still seriously difficult for me to look at any screen with a large amount of a light color. It’s why I can’t stay on Facebook for more than a few minutes at a time without going even blinder than I already am. I am thankful that you’ve put the current background at gray instead of blinding white. I’ll still come around for sure. I just may have to stay on the site a little less for fear of me thinking I’m destroying my eyes a little bit more quickly.
I’m on a 19″ TFT LCD flat panel display, and I prefer the white background, but the gray will do in a pinch. Seems like most of the feedback is pro-gray.
Gray feels decidedly “neutral,” however. My Paladin just became a Fighter. Thanks a lot, Shamus. Now I have to do an atonement quest.
This grey is better than white,I must admit,but it does feel a bit weird.Oh well,Ill adjust.
However,why not try sky blue?It works well for irregular webcomics forum.
Since Daemien Lucifer suggested sky blue, I suggest a glowing fuscia mixed with magenta highlights, it would be the bestest background EVER!
Maybe pink flowers too!
The dark grey on the comments background is a little too low-contrast with the black text for my tastes – but otherwise the new theme looks awesome.
I preferred Lawful Good before, FYI
At least now the background doesn’t kill my eyes.. I still prefer the black, but I can live with this too.
I didn’t use the black background because of some eyesight issue. I used it because it looked cool. I hope it’s back soon.
Looks fine on IE6. The only issue I have is the gray background for the odd comments is a little difficult to read. The blue works great, just the grey background of the comment and the black text need a little more contrast (or better yet a different color background). Oh, and your comments are readable as well (an odd canaryish yellow background)
Normally someone with an opinion like mine won’t bother leaving a comment, which makes us under-represented. I wouldn’t be surprised to find mine was pretty common: I don’t care. I’m not here for the look of the site; as long as I can read the content without wanting to scream (I’m looking at you, MySpace) I’m good.
I have no problems with the gray background on comments.. Maybe you have too low brightness or contrast?
The new theme looks good. A good compromise between the previous two, or was it three?
The one small complaint I have would be that I’d like it to be just a small shade of brighter grey. But with the people saying this one’s fine it’s probably best to leave it as it is.
It matches the standard firefox layout quite well.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1386
I preferred the black background, but this is a huge step up from the white background. The white one hurt my eyes. If we can’t have a theme switcher, please keep the site this way!
Reading the comments I feel like I’m the only one who liked the Good Theme. All this grey makes the site seem dreary to me. White and gold were so much happier. If you’re going to keep the grey background you may want to change the grey comment text boxes, the light blue works but the dark grey blends in.
Still I will read the site regardless of what color scheme you eventually settle on so disregard my comment if you don’t like it.
“As an olive branch to the dark background fans, I've altered the default theme so that it's a couple of shades away from pure white. Hopefully this will make it less painful for you to read.”
It does. Thank you.
I can deal with any of themes, but I prefer the evil theme. I think the original good theme looks better than the current one, but then I’ve never had a particular problem with black text on a white background. Still, if ever you’re able to get the black theme working again, I’m sure it would be greatly appreciated.
Also, for those whom the background currently looks white, or the grey text boxes blend in with the background: you may want to check your monitor calibration settings, as the tones should be quite distinct.
I’m definitely a black on white guy myself. I can’t relate at all to people who say it strains their eyes, as it seems to me that the white on black strains mine, since my eyes are focusing on the bright part that way. With black on white, my eyes focus on the dark, while the bright provides contrast.
But then, bright lights don’t usually bother me unless they’re directly in my line of vision.
That said, I’m fine with this light gray. It seems to feel darker the longer I spend on the site, and it seems weird, but if you can’t have straight white, then grey’s ok.
Two things though: The dark gray comment boxes look weird and the straight white reply box seems too bright when the rest of the background is darker.
Edit: Like some people said, the pale grey background makes me think my monitor’s off.
definitely prefer the gray background to the nearly-as-white-as-my-translucent-skin color, i say keep it dark!
I always used the neutral theme, as the good theme was too glaringly white for me, yet the black with white text is just as hard for me going to the other extreme. I need contrast, but not too much contrast. Yes, I’m aware it doesn’t make a lot of sense for most people. The compromise isn’t bad. It’s not glaringly white. I’d prefer just a little darker, but I’m not complaining.
The new theme looks much better than the old white one on the comment boxes, though for the main posts by you I personally preferred white. As for the rest of the site, it’s already growing on me. I’d definitely say it’s an improvement overall.
Re: the dice roller: Why not use a transparent PNG? Then it doesn’t matter what background color you use…
Oh, right, because IE6 (and 7?) is (are?) crap. There are CSS workarounds you can employ that may get them to work, but I don’t remember for sure if they require activex to be turned on or some such nonsense.
:-(
Oh well. Should be possible, but when crappy tools stop it from working, it’s probably better to do something like what you’ve done than to throw away the crappy tools. I’ll just have to get used to it. *shrug*
Bryan: No, the current dice ARE transparent, but they still look horrible on a black background. (And the black ones look horrible on white.) It’s a side effect of having so much going on in so few pixels. By the time you feathered the edges enough for it to blend, the image would be gone. :)
In case you’re counting votes or something, I’m good with anything that’s readable. I just come here for the articles, not for the background colours. ;)
What about a Greasemonkey style switcher?
It’s about a ten minute hack, and most of the people who prefer dark backgrounds use Firefox anyway.
I prefer the off-white back ground to previous options.
Yellow on green is the choice for real nerds.
Sadly I have found this compromise much harder to read than either of the other themes. While I prefer black on white, white on black is readable. This black on grey thing that is now the standard REALLY hurts me eyes to read :(
Looking back on this now, it just seems to have taken a few days to get used to the new color; it’s not necessarily better or worse than white for me, just different