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DM of the Rings CXIX:
Oops.
Previous in DM of the Rings: DM of the Rings CXVIII: Descriptive Text is Sometimes Important | Next in DM of the Rings: DM of the Rings CXX: Luck Thief |
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Actually this doesn’t happen very often. The DM is most likely going to point to the map, or the minis, and clearly describe which side everyone is on, even if that information really shouldn’t be so neatly defined for newcomers. However, if the DM is foolish enough to let players work out the sides on their own, then a friendly-fire incident is probably a good bet.
Now the question is: If the players attack the wrong guys and prevail, do they get XP?
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Previous in DM of the Rings: DM of the Rings CXVIII: Descriptive Text is Sometimes Important | Next in DM of the Rings: DM of the Rings CXX: Luck Thief |
We've got 89 comments. But one more probably won't hurt.
“Now the question is: If the players attack the wrong guys and prevail, do they get XP?”
They should get negative XP :)
I’d argue they still get xp, but face horrifying ramifications which outweigh the relatively low benefit of a new level :D
We had a similar question once as to what would happen if you polymorph an enemy into a giant rubber duck. The duck is incapable of attacking and therefore technically vanquished, but should the group them get xp for the giant they polymorphed or the duck it turned into?
Any suggestions should be sent to veklim@googlemail.com :P
So what’s the title for this strip? I don’t see it.
Damn that’s funny. xP
Heh, I can’t say that I saw that coming. In the first panel, Legolas looks like he badly needs to sneeze. :D
Is there supposed to be a title? Because I can’t see one (I’m using IE if that’s any help.)
“If the players attack the wrong guys and prevail, do they get XP?”
Of course they should. A kill is a kill. The xp system is supposed to be imitating real-life experience. And if you get xp for kills, that means it’s a game where killing people is supposed to grant some sort of real-life experience.
u’r takin advantage o them wit no lives! good, though.
THAT was GENIUS! Sheer genius! Aragon’s Expression in the second to last frame is just too beautiful for words!
I love the confusion, the betrayal, the smug look.
“SAME TEAM!”
Oh I laughed good and hard at that. Great going Shamus.
man, that would just suck getting rushed by an army of the undead, especially if you knew they were supposed to be on your side. :)
What an utter idiot. “Man-Sized”! This guy kills me, he really does. I also like the DM’s forlorn tone “was that supposed to be in character?”
@ NeedstoHeal and George: Oops is the title … appropriate, no?
Of course they should get XP, but it brings up even larger questions:
1) Do the dead get XP for killing Rohan forces? And if so, what does it do for them … get them closer to being able to rest?
2) For Rohan, can they kill these ghosts? And if so, do they get the same amount of XPs for each one or do their numbers go up based on what they were when alive?
These are critically important questions that need answers. Inquiring minds want to know!
Oh yeah, and where are the damn Rohan Clerics? Get out there and TURN those undead!
Are you sure!?!?!???
I did something similar in a grand battle my DM ran way back in the early 80s. A player couldn’t make it, and I played her druid, who spent the battle casting call lightning … every ten minutes. Dull.
So, the DM had described this armored figure flying around on a blue (!) dragon, attacking various groups of troops–but, for some reason, it wasn’t clear to me which side’s troops he was attacking.
So when the armored guy landed and approached at about the point my next lightning bolt was ready, I let him have it.
One of the other players, whose character was a paladin, yelled “NOOOO!” Huh? What was the problem?
“You’re not there,” the DM told the paladin’s player. “Let him do what he says he does.”
So, the lightning bolt kills the armored guy. Then the paladin comes running up and yells at me: “You idiot! That was the KING!”
Oops, indeed.
(Hey, how the hell was I supposed to know the GOOD king had made an EVIL dragon his pony-girl?)
JD
BTW, Shamus, mad props for the last frame. It was so natural I forgot that the movie doesn’t actually have the scene where the undead rush the Rohirrim.
Aragorn was amazed the day that he learned that when the king of the undead said, “As you wish,” what he was really saying was, “I love you.” And even more amazing was the day he discovered that he truly loved him back.
Aragorn: “Yo, King Tut. . .fetch me that pitcher?”
KT: [whispers] “As you wish.”
Aragorn: [blushes like a schoolgirl. You know, like Leggylass.]
George:
I just realized what you were looking at. She-go-lass really does look like a sneeze is coming! Too funny. Again, great screen capture by the master of all masters.
As far as the king on a dragon incident, this is clear case of player/character knowledge. If the character you were playing should have known that was the king but you as a new player to the game didn’t, then it was asinine of the GM to have you rain lightning down without telling you. Now, if you had already been told and just forgot….then it might be fair game, but I’d still give players a warning.
Something that’s often forgotten by GM’s and players alike is that the characters live in this make believe world. They spend their time there 24/7. The players don’t, and have real world concerns that sometimes bump character knowledge out of their heads. So the players often need to be cut a little slack for laspes in their characters’ memories.
Where did you find the scene for the last panel? It’s an awesomeness on a level that you got me used to again! :)
This reminds me of a game of Battletech I played once. We all started in space, two fighters, one dropship. Each of us on our own side of the map, dropship flanked by the fighters. Planet’s in the middle. Guy to my left got the first action. He immediately pointed to his dropship and said, “I want to ram my fighter into this.”
Both I and the other player just kind of stared at him, but he was adamant. He wanted to ram that dropship. So we figured out all the damage, and announced he’d successfully eliminated the ‘mech bays. He was out of the game.
Carl, that was… disturbing. I love it.
Shamus: If you’re gonna cheat that badly, at least adjust the timestamp so it hides it a little better. ; )
One of the guys in my D&D group told us about another game where his 120-year-old Elf character, who had lived in the same city his whole life, was forced to roll to see if he knew who the ruler of the city was. This, because he did not take the “local knowledge” skill or feat or whatever. That was his last session with that DM.
How did you get that last picture of the dead attacking?
Browncoat: A cogent point: The DM never asks, “are you sure” during the most critical of blunders.
Darkenna: I want it to be obvious that I’m cheating. I want everyone to get used to the idea that a FP is unobtainable. :)
Marmot & Silfea: Photoshop. The undead flowing off the ships vs. The Rohirrim about to charge.
Ah! I should have known; thanks for the info. Can’t wait for the Witch King scene too!
The odd thing is, the Rohanites shouldn’t be shouting “Same Team!” they should be shouting “Charge!”. What? The ships of the evil Black Corsairs just pulled up, disgorged an army of undead, who charged you. What exactly made you think they were good guys?
(But it wouldn’t have been nearly as funny that way; your version is better Shamus!)
I miss Firth. :(
Love it!
Best one is several strips.
“Like Nepoleon, only MAN-SIZED!”
And I am still love’n the ghosts :D
Eevul. Just eevul. =D
These guys are hopelessly lost in the story… if they listened (and passed SAN checks in real life) they could have avoided this…
“Now the question is: If the players attack the wrong guys and prevail, do they get XP?”
A player I DM is always trying to push for this when friendly fire occurs.
“Do I get XP for that?”
“Yeah, you killed three hobgoblins with a fireball, and I gave you the XP.”
“But John died from the fireball too. Do I get XP for killing him?”
“…”
it is nice to see the dm finally give up on railroading the characters and let them just ruin everything by elimating their allies. at least now I know i am not the only one who has done that…
The great thing about Call of Cthulhu is the “Idea Roll” function (a secondary trait based on your intelligence), which is what the GM has players roll either when the character would know something the player doesn’t OR the player tries to do something the character wouldn’t know (if the player is a physicist, but playing a native shaman).
I would totally make a character roll to see if they know the name of the ruler of the city they have lived in their whole life. How many kids know the name of their Mayor, or Congressional representative, or Senator? Hell, how many kids even know who the Vice-President is?
Great strip!
Wonderful Shamus! I nearly wet myself when I saw the last panel.
Now the question is: If the players attack the wrong guys and prevail, do they get XP?
Only if the party’s collective guilt, anger, and outrage at the XP reward would be greater than the GM’s moral distress at advancing someone for a royal screwup.
Otherwise, no.
I love you so much. This makes my day every time I read it.
Absolutely love it. “Napoleon, only man-sized”. I need to start using that one.
Love it. It does always seem too clear on a board of mini both where people are and what they’re doing. Heck, could Aragorn actually even see from one side of the Pelennor Fields to the other once he disembarks from the ship?
There’s a reason it’s good to have a commander operating from a high place. And let’s not even get into instantaneous communication amongst PCs when spread all over the battlefield…
Just the title on this one was enough to get a >snerk
“Now the question is: If the players attack the wrong guys and prevail, do they get XP?”
Offhand, I’d say no. Because that’s set a bad precedence that encourages the players to intentionally kill off the wrong guys in future encounters (I’m picturing players going on village slaughtering sprees) . :-)
“Uh…same team! SAME TEAM” had me laughing hystarically!!
This is an odd question but, what fonts are you using to do the text in the strips? I like the way they look, especially the undead king’s font.
@Carl The Bold *snorts milk out my nose*
The only thing that could top it would be to have Gandalf muttering “Inconceivable!” as the Undead charged the Horsemen.
Yes they do get XP, just not in the positive range. King Tut, boy that was funny.
Shamus Says:
Now the question is: If the players attack the wrong guys and prevail, do they get XP?
Yet another reason to play (D20) Call of Cthulhu instead of D&D. You can give ‘em the XP, then sock ‘em with a massive SAN loss as they realise the awful truth of their (unintended) perfidious mutiny.
Heh heh.
Steve.
@txknight:
“Offhand, I’d say no. Because that’s set a bad precedence that encourages the players to intentionally kill off the wrong guys in future encounters (I’m picturing players going on village slaughtering sprees).”
Sometimes players will do this on their own accord, xp bonuses or penalties be damned. As the DM, you’ll need something stronger to stop them.
One of my old DMs had a house rule whereby if you killed anyone through friendly fire or if you killed a noncombatant, you’d lose twice the amount of XP they’d normally give.
That one made you think twice before saying “I attack him”.
Renacier: What was your DMs definition of ‘non-combatant’?
“If the players attack the wrong guys and prevail, do they get XP?”
I’d say not. Back in the day, yes, you get XP for killing anything. Thus the whole “boil an antnest” thing. However these days D20 is supposed to give XP for “overcoming the obstacle” (So you can get points for sneaking past things etc). Since they were on their side, helping them and in no way compromising their objectives either on a campaign or person level, they didn’t comprise an obstacle and thus don’t score XP.
“One of my old DMs had a house rule whereby if you killed
anyone through friendly fire or if you killed a noncombatant, you’d lose twice the amount of XP they’d normally give.”
Damn, there’s a campaign to wear baby armour in if ever there was one. I guess you’d need baby dragons or something to make the XP loss hurt enough.
“But John died from the fireball too. Do I get XP for killing him?”
Back in the old days, yeah… the other PCs were almost always worth a heck of a lot more xp than the actual opposition. And they had much better stuff.
This is part of the reason most of the DMs I played with banned evil PCs… they didn’t want killing other PCs to be in-character.
The 3rd shot that the ghost king dude appears in looks like it was a screen capture from when they were back in the mountain
THAT’S CHEATING!
=3