The captured party is brought aboard the Dreadnought Leviathan, flagship of Archadia’s 8th Fleet, and presented before the commander: it’s Judge Ghis! I missed him; now that he doesn’t wear the helmet anymore, we can admire that great Archadian hair. Grand Moff Ghis greets Ashe glibly, and demands that they hand over the nethicite. Penelo is reluctant, clutching Larsa’s gift in her hand… but Ghis protests, and clarifies that he wants the deifacted nethicite. He asks his lackey, Captain Vossler Azelas, to clarify for him.

Yep, Vossler’s gone all Lando on us. At some point it struck him that there isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell of driving the Empire out of Dalmasca through force of arms, and the best plan now is to regain whatever primacy they can for Ashe by cooperating with the Empire, after the model of Ondore in Bhujerba. To this end, they will restore the sovereignty of the Dalmascan line if they but hand over the Dawn Shard, which they reveal is a shard of unthinkably powerful nethicite. Ashe hesitates, struggling to come to terms with the sudden developments, so Ghis makes it simple for her: consent and become their pet queen, or vacillate and he starts lopping off party members’ heads. With a sword at Balthier’s throat, she hands the Dawn Shard over.
Ghis, nethicite in hand, remarks on how glad this will make Doctor Cid, once again causing Balthier to nearly throw a shitfit. Real subtle there, son. The Judge orders them transferred to the light cruiser Shiva, after which they shall shortly be returned to Dalmasca safe and sound. With the party gone, though, Ghis desires to test the stone somehow, not wanting to hand a fake or powerless Dawn Shard to his superiors.

Aboard the Shiva, Vossler tries to discuss the future with Ashe, recommending they make an ally of the young but idealistic Larsa Solidor. But Ashe, disgusted by his two-timing, has no ears for him, regardless of his conviction that he acts in the best interests of their nation. Worse troubles are brewing, though: lacking more precise equipment, the engineers of the Leviathan have elected to load the Dawn Shard into the ship’s own drive, and gauge its power output with the dreadnought’s telemetry. Not exactly precise, but good enough to prove the stone is genuine before it’s handed into the care of Draklor Laboratory.
As soon as the Shard is loaded, however, a shudder runs through everyone, even the party aboard the Shiva; everyone can tell something is wrong, but Fran in particular begins losing her shit. The power of the stone is beyond all expectation, and Ghis couldn’t be more pleased. After all, if all it takes to rule the empire is an Archadian with beautiful hair and a magic superweapon, why not Ghis instead of that pretty boy Vayne?
With the power of the Dawn Shard spiking ever higher and higher, Fran can no longer take the strain and flips entirely the fuck out, smashing her bonds and leaping around, wrecking Imperial shit left and right. Balthier uses the chaos to pirate his handcuffs off and release the rest of the party, but Vossler is too committed to getting Ashe onto the throne to let them fuck the plan up for him now. Basch isn’t having it, though; Princess wants Imperial blood, so that’s what Princess gets.

Now, I’ll level with you: I think Vossler has a case. Sure, things will work out for Ashe whatever she does because she’s the main character and Vossler isn’t, but Vossler has put up with this shit right alongside Ashe for two years now. Dalmasca is still just as much under the heel of Archades as it always has been, perhaps more now than ever, and their Resistance hasn’t made a damn bit of difference, right up until losing most of their manpower in the failed assault at Vayne’s fete. If anything, the recent negotiations with the Bhujerban resistance will just get Ondore in hot water and fuck up Bhujerba’s deal right along with Dalmasca’s.
If Ashe was more cunning, she might take the deal and learn Ondore’s game. Bullshit resistance movements are one thing, but Dalmasca and Bhujerba combined? Bhujerba’s been funneling resources into a navy to rival the Empire’s since the war ended, and that’s just two years worth of scheming. Give that guy a bit more time, with Ashe playing the same game with Dalmasca, and you might actually have some weight at the bargaining table. Or you can keep fighting the Empire and their magic superweapons out of your comfy little warehouse in a fucking sewer.
It might not be a foolproof plan, but I’ve got to ask here: what exactly is Ashe’s plan, again? After getting her buddies slaughtered and being captured by the Empire, she seems to be set on going public, finding some way to back her claim to the throne for a formal declaration of at least some degree of Dalmascan sovereignty. Technically we’ve already had our hands on two nethicite superweapons, but we didn’t know that at the time and we’ve given both of them to Archadia. So what’s Ashe’s plan for the day after she formally re-declares war on the Empire? She has no army and no allies but Ondore, who’s already declined official aid. Will the much-aggrieved Dalmascans rejoice or resent the redoubling of Archadian attentions on their city? Vossler has a lot to answer for, but we can’t really claim in good conscience that he hasn’t thought out his obligations to Dalmasca better than the party seems to have.
Yet… Yet I have to ask, how long has it been since he started playing for both sides? I’m inclined to think he first shook hands with the Empire between busting Ashe out of the Leviathan and reconnoitering with the party at the Sandsea, but there’s really nothing to indicate when exactly he turned. It’s important, though; if he had gotten fed up with the struggle and started working with the Empire after securing her momentary freedom from the Leviathan, that makes sense. Ashe has momentary leave to act without the Empire’s hold on her, yet Azelas will work with her to secure the Dawn Shard, keeping the princess safe and, in his mind, working to satisfy the aims of both sides. He will have to turn her back over once they have the Stone, but then they can get her on the throne and work from there. Right?
But if it was any point before that, things stop making sense in a hurry. And there’s one tantalizing shred of evidence to suggest that it goes very far back: the sword. The sword Dalan had Vaan deliver to Vossler, “to remind him of what [the Dalmascan Knights] once meant.” They never reveal what that meant at that time; narratively, it was to get Vaan in the room to witness the events there, but given that Dalan seems to be omniscient and Vossler turned traitor, those words become portentous. It suggests either that Vossler’s faith in the Resistance had dissolved after the failed assault on Vayne, or that he had turned even earlier and could conceivably have been the mole that tipped Vayne off about their attack in the first place.
But if that’s the case, why let Basch run free? Wouldn’t Vossler have a lot to gain by tipping off the Imperials about their favorite jailbird strutting around trying to get the insurgency back on track? And, more importantly, why spring Ashe from the Leviathan? Vossler claims he begged Marquis Ondore to help free Ashe from the dreadnought; if he had, that means the Empire has some serious new blackmail material to use against Ondore, but they don’t seem to know.Or maybe they do, and are doing nothing about it at present. After all, we see Vayne confronted with Ondore’s resistance involvement and he balks. And, of course, that little prison break nearly saw Judge Ghis dead, and would have also tipped off Vossler about Larsa’s extracurricular activities… Not that he would have told the Empire about these things, or that he wouldn’t have told them later even if he hadn’t turned at that point yet. Actually, all probability seems to point to him keeping everything under wraps for Ashe and Dalmasca, going only so far to help or inform the Empire as it took to retake the throne for Ashe. It’s hard to get any solid evidence about the specifics of his Imperial involvement one way or the other.
But while I somewhat sympathize with Vossler, all things considered, I do have to side with Ashe and Basch here. The fact is, regardless of how much I like Vossler, he’s done at least three things that long ago marked him due for an ass-kicking: he gets the Telekinesis technick from the start, whereas I won’t have that shit ’til near the endgame; he gets a fucking greatsword by default, while I have to dick around with sword-and-board for entirely too goddamn long; and on the Leviathan, that Imperial disguiseOne of the many foreshadowings of his double-agency! clanked and clattered just like the real deal with EVERY. FUCKING. STEP. Captain Azelas, your dedication is admirable, in its own way, but… do you really think you can win this fight?
Did you forget we have a fucking Gigas?
After watching Belias grind and incinerate the former Captain Azelas into beefy cinders,As I recall, I used Belias here to test the changes IZJS had made to Espers. I found it pretty satisfying as the description here probably implies, but I still rarely ever bothered with Espers or Quickenings. Basch and Ashe are nonetheless remorseful to have battled with a man who had been— and in a way still was— their staunchest ally. Shit is going majorly wrong aboard the Leviathan, though; nethicite absorbs magic, and putting it in the ship’s drive was a grave error: it’s absorbing all the vast magical— I’m sorry, magickal— power of the vast dreadnought!

Vossler speaks one last time with Basch. Whatever his motives were, his days at Ashe’s side are over. With his plans once again fallen apart, he can only wonder how— or if— it could have gone differently. Basch respects his old friend, though, and will honor his loyalty by guarding Ashe to the bitter end in his place. As the calamity aboard the Leviathan begins shaking the fleet, the party flees for their lives, but Vossler Azelas holds his position, and awaits his doom.
As the Dawn Shard reaches some critical threshold, it consumes the dreadnought and unleashes a titanic conflagration, utterly consuming the 8th Fleet. The party outrides the explosion in a small fighter craft, and, as the mist subsides, are amazed to see the Dawn Shard floating serenely amidst the carnage, no worse for wear.

All Ivalice is shaken by the destruction of the fleet that had served as the Empire’s enforcement throughout the Galtean Peninsula; seizing the opportunity, Ondore claims sudden illness to secure some me-time and contacts every revolution-minded military and political leader in his Rolodex. The goings-on of the next few days are narrated by Ondore, just as he narrated the infodump during the prologue.This is another excerpt from his memoirs.
Ashe returns to Rabanastre with the Dawn Shard, but declines to seize the throne just yet, instead choosing to keep hidden as she had before. The game is running with the dubious logic that Ondore would be discredited if Ashe were to appear alive and well, yet at the moment the Marquis is the best hope for assembling and running a legitimate counter-Imperial armada.
Under the circumstances, any attempt on Ashe’s part to seize the Dalmascan throne without Imperial cooperation would definitely set off another conflict before any counter was prepared, and the 8th Fleet, while mighty, was only one arm of an immense military force.
Meanwhile, Rozarria (Ivalice’s other immense military force and perennial rival of Archades) has certainly taken notice of Valendia’s loss. At once they began massing and moving their own forces under the pretense of “routine exercises,” and the Archadian Senate is sure that they’ll launch a full-on assault no later than they perceive the opportunity. What’s more, the lost fleet was Lord Vayne’s to command, and therefore its loss and the perilous circumstances resulting from it is his to answer for, placing him right at the top of the Senate’s shitlist. They immediately demand the Emperor punish him in some capacity.

Gramis is wise to their game; he’s already let on to Gabranth that the Senate doesn’t want Vayne on the throne, and this disaster gives them the perfect political cover for completely sidelining him and shooing in Larsa for the position, whom they believe they can control. At this point, the Senate is openly contemptuous of the dying Emperor, and he of them. He sarcastically wonders aloud who could guide Larsa’s rule, and they needle him right back, reminding him of his role in orchestrating his first two son’s deaths at Vayne’s hands. The Emperor resents his situation, but the balance of power compels him; he tells the Senate he shall recall Vayne to Archades at once, and the matter is closed.

With the party convened in Rabanastre, Ashe has a waking vision of the wasteland surrounding Nabudis. Surveying the destruction, she turns to see the specter of Lord Rasler, who hands her the Dawn Shard. Clutching it to her chest, she sees Vaan step into her sight, and she awakens. This is yet another go at the old “Ashe and Vaan are connected” bit, and it still amounts to nothing. The dream seems to imply that Vaan is taking Rasler’s place, somehow, but he… uhh… isn’t? Ashe never has the first inkling of romantic attraction to Vaan, whom the game has clearly already paired up with Penelo anyway, so unless someone steps out of the wings to declare him rightful heir to the Nabradian throne, I have no fucking clue what the writers were going for with it.

Oh, nevermind, it’s a transparent ass-pull to try and legitimize this hanger-on running around with people who actually have some connection to the plot. You know, I might have the first fucking scrap of respect for people who try and stand up for Vaan and say, “Oh well of course Vaan has no meaningful role in the game, the writers are just using him as a window into these events,” if the writers didn’t repeatedly peddle this weak shit pumping up Vaan and yanking him into all the most important inflection points in Ashe’s story while she’s busy actually leading this fucking game.
Back in the waking world, Basch is having a bit of exposition. He recognized the disaster at the Leviathan as the same force which must have destroyed Nabudis, capital of Nabradia. It would seem the Midlight Shard, which had been left to House Nabradia by the Dynast-King, was activated in the city as the Empire invaded, incinerating both sides and leaving behind a wasteland filled with undead and all manner of monsters attracted to intense mist and intense suffering.
However, it seems the unleashing the Dawn Shard’s power has left it a powerless gray rock. Even if the Empire recovered the Midlight Shard from the capsized city— and it seems all too likely this was their object in invading Nabradia— they would likewise need some way to recharge its unimaginable reserves of stored mist to make any use of it.

Though they do have the fully-charged Dusk Shard, and, as Balthier points out, they have learned to manufacture their own nethicite, as well. Ashe makes a resolution: if the Dawn Shard is a weapon, then it’s her weapon, and she is going to leverage its might to make the Empire sorry they ever fucked with Ashelia B’nargin Dalmasca. (*snicker* B’nargin)
After this dramatic declaration, Vaan gets one of the best lines allotted to him:

*sincere golf clap*
No, it turns out, we fucking do not. Fran, font of all knowledge and occasional berserker madwoman, claims the garif might know. The garif, she says, are a tribe to the south in Kerwon that has been around since antiquity, and magicite of all kinds is an important part of their lore. If there’s anyone in the world who might know the finer points of the care and feeding of nethicite, it’s the garif. Ashe requests that Fran help guide her to the garif, but Balthier immediately interjects that it will require a bit of compensation. Still sore about getting shorted at the tomb, are we?
What he demands is infamous among players as a total dick move even for Balthier: Rasler’s wedding band. Important note! Originally, I assumed it was Ashe’s wedding band, and didn’t grasp the significance of Ashe wearing two rings. Maybe I’m thick and this was obvious to everyone else; Ashe’s ringed hands have been prominently featured in some of the foregoing cutscenes, particularly the ones involving Rasler, but no one ever outright says it and the creators (I would venture unwisely) assumed that the audience would apprehend the truth from visual allusions alone. Ashe is devastated, but, desperate for knowledge of the stone, hands the band over reluctantly. It’s the one time in the game when Balthier crosses the line from cheeky Han Solo rogue to actual unscrupulous criminal mercenary.

Here’s the thing, though: I don’t just take issue with Balthier’s actions, but Ashe’s as well. Now, hold on, I’m not just being an asshole. Did Ashe even think about turning him down? Or talk him down to something else, maybe? He says, “Compensation… How about the ring?” Got a box of rings somewhere he can root through, princess? When Ashe hesitates, he even says, “No one’s forcing you.” Can’t call his bluff? Try, “Oh, good then. Pick literally anything else, Stretch.” Or is watching you suffer part of his payment?I don’t know how Balthier would actually know the ring’s significance, but the scene certainly implies he knows exactly what he’s asking for. Maybe he can interpret cutscenes more ably than I. If so, maybe cut his throat and be done with him, because here’s the more important point: why the fuck do you need him at all?
The Strahl is too damaged to fly after the calamity over Jagd Yensa,The Strahl was parked at the eastern edge of the jagd, and the calamity occured at the western end of the entire sandsea. How in fuck did the Strahl get damaged by the explosion? If the explosion were that powerful, how did our little Imperial runabout not get blasted to fucking atoms? No, I’m certain that the moogle flight crew got bored and crashed the Strahl into a cliff. You believe what you want, but that’s the real story. so we aren’t flying there. You’re hiring them as tour guides. Now, you argued in the tomb of Raithwall that you had to take your help where you could get it, and at that time, you were right: robbing the tomb of Raithwall is some dramatically dubious shit. It’s not something you can advertise in the local paper to hire help for, and they already knew the over-and-under so you weren’t spreading information unnecessarily. And you were planning on stiffing him for the bill.
This time? He’s squeezing you for something of tremendous sentimental value to you just to be an asshole, for something you absolutely don’t need him for. Has no one else in Dalmasca heard of the garif? I’m pretty sure the Giza tribals know them pretty well. Does anyone have a map, maybe? Hell, if you want someone who can show you the way and put up a fight, too, we also happen to be part of a prestigious clan of professional world-wise monster hunters. They’re literally down the street.For anyone wondering: no, the Clan never intersects with the main plot after your induction during the tutorial phase of the game. It’s unacknowledged and completely orthogonal to the game’s story. So if you really want to hand over your fucking wedding ring to a pair of criminals so they can give you directions and soak up a third of the experience, you go right ahead, Princess.
Not that we should give a fuck what Balthier wants in the first place. We need Fran’s help. She’s the one with a brain like an Ivalician Wikipedia, as she loves to demonstrate from time to time. Hey Ashe, you wanna calmly grab Balthier’s smug little face, splinter the nearest table with it, and ask Fran if she wants to help? Fran, dear, d’you ever get tired of tapping your little digitigrade feetsies under the table because Balthier doesn’t need to use the bathroom right now? As we’ll find out later, Fran’s entire backstory is based on a really difficult decision to go her own way for her own reasons; might be a fun twist if Balthier straight-up declined on his and Fran’s behalf to help Ashe any further… only for Fran to volunteer her own help, putting Balthier in the position of following her lead for a change.
Here’s the icing on the cake: he claims he’ll give the ring back once he finds something more valuable. Vaan tries to call his bluff and asks what that might be. Balthier retorts on the way out the door by asking what Vaan is after at all, to which he has no answer because his utter lack of motivation is canon.
This fucking game. I swear it’s taunting me on purpose.
The Travelog continues next week.
Footnotes:
[1] Or maybe they do, and are doing nothing about it at present. After all, we see Vayne confronted with Ondore’s resistance involvement and he balks.
[2] One of the many foreshadowings of his double-agency!
[3] As I recall, I used Belias here to test the changes IZJS had made to Espers. I found it pretty satisfying as the description here probably implies, but I still rarely ever bothered with Espers or Quickenings.
[4] This is another excerpt from his memoirs.
[5] I don’t know how Balthier would actually know the ring’s significance, but the scene certainly implies he knows exactly what he’s asking for. Maybe he can interpret cutscenes more ably than I.
[6] The Strahl was parked at the eastern edge of the jagd, and the calamity occured at the western end of the entire sandsea. How in fuck did the Strahl get damaged by the explosion? If the explosion were that powerful, how did our little Imperial runabout not get blasted to fucking atoms? No, I’m certain that the moogle flight crew got bored and crashed the Strahl into a cliff. You believe what you want, but that’s the real story.
[7] For anyone wondering: no, the Clan never intersects with the main plot after your induction during the tutorial phase of the game. It’s unacknowledged and completely orthogonal to the game’s story.
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T w e n t y S i d e d
…..his utter lack of motivation is canon.
I just love that line.
His motivation is perfectly clear, though.
Some Reks died.
What else could you possibly need?
Ghis showing up again made me angry. Not only is Ghis pretty much established as the lowest guy in the Imperial totem pole, but the first time we fought him, we hit him so hard his helmet shattered while it was still on his face. But here he is, as healthy and mocking as ever. I guess we don’t have another character to make this scene happen (which is important as it drives the plot from here out*), but at least put him on crutches or something. We’re not fighting him again, so have him give his orders from a stretcher.
The Vossler battle, on the other hand, is probably the high point of the game, because it’s also a battle of philosophies. This was a major strength of Final Fantasy Tactics, where most of the unique enemies spent their battle debating with Ramza about the nature of the world. Vossler’s stance that the best thing for Dalmasca is not in fighting the Imperials again, but in cooperating with them, is a reasonable approach but incompatible with Ashe’s desire for vengeance, and the battle between them is the proofing. Vossler’s defeat here is a clear narrative beat that cooperating is completely off the table; even if the player thinks the idea makes sense, the party has “slain” it, and will be following another creed.
Unfortunately, this is the last time the game is going to have this kind of fight. The rest of the fights are going to be pretty straightforward “blarg, I’m the bad guy” fights, or random monster enemies (which are at least atmospheric in making Ivalice feel larger than humanity). The game has more opportunities**, but doesn’t take them.
Also the “we have to test it” and subsequent explosion is totally just Raiders of the Lost Ark.
*(Behold, the Dalmascan Ninja Commandos. A magic nuke.)
**(Migelo would have been perfect for something like this. A friendly Dalmascan Merchant with direct ties to Vaan and Penelo, helping the Empire get stronger because that’s what it takes to keep Dalmasca fed and functioning. Give Vaan and Penelo some direct plot ties, get more political quandaries. win win.)
“the first time we fought him, we hit him so hard his helmet shattered while it was still on his face. But here he is, as healthy and mocking as ever.”
I guess enough hair product provides 100% damage mitigation?
Think that joke’s been done though. “He got hit over the head? I guess he’s lucky they didn’t hit anything he was using…”
Would you be more comfortable testing the shard in Rabanastre, for Vayne? Finding out only then if the Nethicite is the one true Dusk Shard?
I’m just curious as to why they didn’t try disconnecting the Nethecite before it exploded.
Surely, once they know it’s powerful, they could disconnnect it from the ship before – you know – wiping out the Imperial Fleet and seriously undermining the Empire.
How many times does the plan ‘let’s connect this random magical item to something that we’re relying on to fly, or that is keeping us alive’ end well?
What happened to caution?
They state they’re trying to disconnect it, though it’s not clear why they can’t. I think it’s supposed to be a Tesseract kind of thing, where it’s creating an energy barrier now.
Why did they try it in the first place? Larsa and others make it perfectly clear that the empire understands what nethecite is. They are studying it extensively. They make it. They know for a fact that it absorbs magik (don’t really care how you actually spell that) energy.
They also know the Dusk Shard is nethecite. Ghis refers to it as such.
Then, these geniuses decide “hey, you know what would be a good idea? Hooking this thing that we know absorbs magik energy up to the thing powered by magik energy. You know, the thing we’re dependent on to get the heck out of this otherwise-uncrossable desert.
Um,,,,what? I don’t know how the physics of magik in this world work, but I don’t think it takes a particularly bright bulb to say “wait – maybe let’s not hook our immense power source up to something that’s it’s polar opposite just to see what happens.”
Sure, I get the idea that taking energy readings would be a good idea in the abstract. Except…this thing ABSORBS energy. You’re trying to measure a zero. Even if this “works” how would you know? Yeah, yeah, I get it – what actually happens apparently is an explosion, though why that happens isn’t entirely clear to me.
This is way, way dumber than the Raiders of the Lost Ark plot. They had a supposedly powerful thing, and wanted to see if it worked. Ghis has two KNOWN very poweful things that are opposed to each other, and the genius decides to hook them up to each other.
Mostly agree, except with this part:
>Except…this thing ABSORBS energy. You’re trying to measure a zero. Even if this “works” how would you know?
If it absorbs energy, takes it out of the system, it’s not a zero, it’s a negative value. You’d know what the reading is by seeing how much your current power output decreases by. So they would be able to tell… but yeah, they should still know that it’s probably going to blow them up
In this case I believe the ship was already powered by nethicite. Whilst it does absorb magic, it also acts as a force itself.
It’s not a negative value, though. It’s an immense source of zero.
I think about it this way. How would you measure the “energy” or “capacity” of a perfect electrical ground?
Sure, you could hook it up to some voltage source and measuring the current flow. But you’re not measuring the ground. You’re measuring whatever source you hooked up to it. If you hook it up to 240V you’ll see twice the current as you’d see if you hooked it up to 120V (and in both cases you’d rapidly blow a fuse/breaker). But the current you measure tells you nothing about the ground itself. Just that it was capable of absorbing the output of the thing you hooked up to it.
If I understand it correctly the idea is that the shards are a grade above the other nethicite the empire has access to (we’ll get to that eventually in the story) so it’d be enough to establish that this is 1) indeed nethicite and 2) it can do things that other nethicite cannot. Having said that I cannot express how dumb the way they go about it is.
Again, you don’t need exact measurements, you just need to determine that this is the good stuff. Now I don’t know how much Judge Fancyhair over there knows about this stuff but I think he might be aware that this thing can level cities if treated incorrectly (or correctly depending on your point of view). Even failing that try it on a smaller ship, while it’s landed, try firing at it, casting spells on it, literally anything other than they actually did. I mean, it still might have led to a disaster but at least it wouldn’t have shown blatant disregard to any reason.
I think I missed what tech let the Imperials cross the jagd sandsea.
Nethicite powered drives are apparently able to overcome whatever issue jagd causes.
I think it is mentioned in the plot covered by this update, as the party is also confused, but I don’t think it got mentioned directly by Rocketeer.
To quote the wiki: “Using manufacted nethicite, the people of Archadia have made skystones that can fly over Jagds and reach areas like the Tomb of Raithwall and the Ridorana Cataract by airship.”
And yet, this vast occupying army who knows about the shards and their vast power never used this ability to go collect one of the three most powerful items in the world…
I will possibly defend Balthier here. He’s about the only one displaying any insight that’s not Magic Plot Knowledge. Ashe needs to get her problems behind her and stop effin around, Balthier has, despite everything, been trying to keep his hand in the game, and asking for the ring gives him some options to manage that.
Unfortunately the game literally can’t clearly enunciate anything, so I literally don’t know if this is me seeing something not present, or if the scene is from an early draft, or whether there’s some meaning involved the writers never explained.
Edit: really the biggest issue is that even though the characters do have some motivation the plot barely acknowledges it. So for much of the game the player has little insight into their goals. And way too much isilent unsaid because the party never talks except about political stuff. One part if other FF8 games is that, usually, the characters had some motivation but the bond they shared meant the party wouldn’t just give up. And when one character finished their goals, it was dramatic but not final because they still wanted to help their friends.
Just out of interest: while I like FFVIII…can someone explain what Selphie was for?
Don’t get me wrong; she was cute, and I liked the minidress – but on reflection, she was actually less relevant to the plot of VIII than Fran seems to be for XII. At least Fran drops exposition and has a copy of the script.
She’s there to provide fun. Everyone else in your group is a Hot Topic Angst Party and if she wasn’t there players would be ground down by the melodrama. So, in terms of plot she doesn’t make a lot of sense – an accusation that can be leveled to a certain extent at Zell and Irvine as well – but she is absolutely necessary to provide bouncy, excited emotional variety to the group.
Enh, they could have done that with Zell – it’s been 20 years since I played FF8 so I don’t remember what else his purpose was besides being an early prototype for FF10’s Wakka. :p
Pretty sure Zell fixed a machine at some point, and was introduced as a friend of Squall’s in the early part of the game?
Also, Irvine was needed as a sharpshooter at one point in the story, though he doesn’t actually succeed at his shot and is irrelevant after that…
But Selphie? She lacks even THAT…
That’s the main reason, yeah. Yuffie was popular in 7 so we want another Yuffie for 8.
Plotwise, she’s the personal connection to Trabia Garden, which… isn’t too important, but makes the world feel a little bigger. And RPG party members don’t need plot justifications as much as other genres, they have mechanical justifications too. Selphie’s Roulette limit break is unique, and she rounds out the B team for the couple of times the game splits you into two groups. In that sense she’s more important than Red XIII.
Part of why I don’t have a problem with Vaan or Penelo being plot irrelevant; they’re two more HP sacks for when Ashe, Balthier and
BaschFran get murdered by a wandering Elemental.I think a key difference between Selphie and our useless kids is that at least Selphie has motivation in-universe (at the start she’s working for her employer, but later on she becomes attached in a believable way and that’s even before The Reveal). You can argue she’s not serving some specific plot purpose but at least her presence makes sense. Vaan and Penelo are just kinda…there.
I agree with everyone above saying that she also fills out the roulette limit break and genki girl archetypes.
And while she is working for her employer at the start – as well as being the new student that Squall can show around the place he’s lived for awhile and thus justify him explaining where everything is to the player – I do scratch my head at how the job of elite mercenary appealed to kind, perky, optimistic Selphie in the first place.
To be perfectly honest I don’t think she was given much of an alternative. FF8 spoilers underneath the tags
As I understand it all of the Edea’s orpahanage children were placed in the Gardens (doublechecked and according to the wiki Selphie was already participating in exercise involving live monsters at the age of 12) so between the early age of induction and the GF inflicted memory loss she’s literally not known any other life.This does raise some uncomfortable implications if you start thinking about it though I’m fairly certain the game does not intend for us to and basically we’re meant to accept it as a “youths on an adventure saving the world” same way we don’t talk about how Ash’s mom parental responsibilities in Pokemon.Selphie was there to provide some pathos for Trabia Garden.
Re: the last part and too much being left unsaid – this is yet another problem that got worse in FFXIII. The “cast of jerks” as I call them generally have reasons for being such jerks, some of which are even sympathetic, but because none of them trust each other and they all spend large parts of the game having split up for no reason, you won’t find most of it out until you’re well past the point where many people reasonably stopped caring.
My read on Balthier here is that this is a test of motive.
The story is basically describing the Dawn Shard like a nuke here, and the party’s plan is basically the logic of mutually assured destruction – and I think that Balthier wants to know where Ashe’s motivations really lie.
We just got past the point where Ashe turns down Vossler’s (arguably fairly reasonable) offer of becoming a puppet queen, and one reason why Ashe might do that (other than “reading the script”) is that she’s primarily out for vengeance. And Balthier might not want to agree to go help find the keys to the nuclear arsenal for someone blinded by revenge.
Asking her to sacrifice something very important to her (and importantly: symbolic of Rasler, the person she wants to avenge), is a test of whether she’s really doing this for Dalmascia’s greater good or not. Balthier being Balthier, he doesn’t come out and say this but instead masks it behind his usual “I’m just a mercenary, doing mercenary things” facade, but I think the symbolism of “this needs to be about more than revenge for your dead husband” is intentional on his part.
I considered this as well, but I don’t buy it; it makes sense for Balthier I guess, but not Ashe. The idea that Ashe is forced to choose between her lingering ties to Rasler and her desire for power/her throne could be interesting, it just breaks down in all its particulars.
Giving up her wedding band, while sentimentally valuable, doesn’t really put her want for power in conflict with her relationship with Rasler, because Rasler is the one urging her to seek and accept the nethicite (yeah, yeah, I know, hold your horses).
This is also very early in Ashe’s minimally-evolving attitude toward the nethicite and her situation, and her desire for the nethicite at this point is primarily a quest for understanding, to the end of maintaining a deterrent worthy of staking her claim to the throne publicly. Going forward, the game will condemn the embrace of nethicite as a destructive end but we are really not at that point yet and the game always frames Ashe’s larger desire to liberate Dalmasca as a just and laudable one.
So if Balthier is trying to present some kind of symbolic dilemma for Ashe he’s doing a crummy job of it, and holding his own trepidations about nethicite and how he knows it might change her are really not fair to hold against her when he’s not going to get around to making those apprehensions plain for several more story arcs. Yes, even if we, the audience, can understand *with the benefit of hindsight, having already played the fucking game* project a more complete motivation onto Balthier’s apparently coldly selfish, callous attitude here.
This actually isn’t me projecting hindsight because we’re getting very close to as far as I’ve ever managed to get into this game.
I don’t think this relies on Balthier having knowledge about not-yet-revealed details of Nethicite – the idea of putting a nuke in the hands of someone who might be revenge-driven (against a country which he apparently has ties to) seems like enough of a bad idea on its own merit, without needing to involve any not-yet-revealed aspects of Nethicite.
I don’t think this relies on Ashe knowing that it’s a test of motive: she probably does think that he’s just being a greedy, scruffy looking, nerf herder. But if she really had gone yandere for avenging Rasler, she’d likely refuse to give up the ring, at least as far as Balthier knows. Maybe that last sentence isn’t actually true, since Rasler’s ghost apparently wants her to do this, but how would Balthier know that?
It’s not a perfect test (it’s not impossible to imagine a “revenge-blind” Ashe still choosing to give up the ring), but it does seem like evidence of her motives. And it’s not like it costs Balthier anything except his sterling reputation, and he wasn’t using that anyway.
When Balthier asks for Ashe’s wedding ring, he also says “I’ll give it back when I find something more valuable.” This immediately made me think ‘Ah, Balthier is going to propose marriage to Ashe sometime later’; that is, giving her wedding ring back in exchange for her hand in marriage, i.e. ‘something more valuable’.
I haven’t finished the game yet. Does this line actually pay any dividends?
I thought the same, but it doesn’t appear to go anywhere.
As a rule, nothing interesting that is set up in FFXII ever pays off.
Not really, the theory is that early in development Balthier was the main character and so that might have been the original idea for this scene, but that got scrap in favor of.. Vaan.
Somehow all this time I had the idea that Balthier and Fran were married (which would explain why she continues to stick around with the party), but I just looked it up, and no. Wonder where I got that idea from.
This…actually helps make Ashe’s wardrobe make more sense. If she was meant to be the actual protagonist while not being the viewpoint character, of course her clothing choices are going to be kind of bonkers, this is a Final Fantasy game.
Also, why did no one in the engine room just disconnect the Dawn Shard? I mean, sure, yeah, you don’t know what just disconnecting it will do, but when it becomes obvious that leaving the magical artifact hooked up to your engine is going to, at the very least, cause your engines to explode, better the devil you don’t know than the devil you do.
The game treats nethicite likes nukes. This incident is like when the cooling rods have melted and there’s no way left to shut it down.
I liked the ring-as-collateral plot point. It raised good questions of ‘Am I really as all-in on this as I say I am?’.
Vossler’s betrayal really should work a lot better than it does narratively. On paper, it’s perhaps the best plot point the story has had so far, in practice, it’s underwhelming. I’d argue Vossler represents a reasonable and interesting position here, that the ongoing resistance just isn’t worth it. … but I don’t think the story has done the groundwork to do Vossler’s position justice.
Players are already going be biased against Vossler’s “collaborationist” approach, because that’s really just how these stories go – nobody wants to hear that the “heroic rebels” fighting the “evil empire” might be inflicting more collateral damage and suffering more casualties than actually accomplishing anything worthwhile.
Nor does the game meaningfully try to convince the player otherwise – any consequences of the resistance happen entirely off-screen: the closest we come is seeing some nameless, faceless soldiers dying in the coup/heist scene in the first act. … but those aren’t “nameless, faceless soldiers” to Vossler, they’re his close friends and allies, and he’s seeing them die up close, … and for what? So that we can put a teenage girl on the throne as a real queen and not as a puppet?
With that context, his actions make a lot more sense and are more sympathetic, but the game never helps you see things from his perspective, so I think he just comes across as your average spineless turncoat to most.
Part of the problem is just pacing – we’re introduced to Vossler’s betrayal, he briefly explains his motives, then he dies, basically all in the same scene, and then the plot moves on, (and Ashe and Basch seem remarkably unaffected by being betrayed by a close friend and ally, all told)
Simply slowing this down – making Vossler a recurring obstacle to the party – would help a lot. He’d be a much better antagonist than random judges, and it’d give more time to flesh out his views, and would do a lot more to “twist the knife” so we see emotional effects of his betrayal on Ashe and Basch. (Even better would be to make him actually a meaningfully likable character beforehand so the player feels the betrayal, but let’s not ask for miracles here)
I can’t help draw comparisons to the anime Code Geass – it has a lot in common with political plot of this game, but handles it a lot better. “Collaboration vs. resistance” is a major theme and it does the things I mentioned above – the “Vossler analogue character” is a recurring antagonist, and their ‘betrayal’ hits a lot harder.
And the show does a lot better at making the resistance side more morally ambiguous, so it’s a lot less clear cut “rebels good, empire evil”. The protagonist’s motives and methods are questionable at best, and the show does better at showing the collateral damage, so even though the empire is a lot more explicitly nefarious than FFXII’s empire, it still ends a more morally ambiguous conflict.
(…this isn’t precisely a recommendation – on the one hand, I love Code Geass, on the other hand it’s one of the most “anime” anime in the history of anime, and certainly has its share of rough edges)
I really liked Code Geass, in spite of its rough edges! But I actually thought that it also failed here; simultaneously, the character who collaborates never actually uses his collaboration to *do* anything other than fight rebels (though there are hints he may be off-screen where we never see it), but it also presents the empire’s evil as fundamentally a matter of “wow, those guys are murderous racist jerks.” So there clearly is a case for collaboration (replace murderous racist jerks with administrators who are not murderous racist jerks), but the character making that case doesn’t ever really make it, and when someone else does make it, the story avoids answering it via deus ex machina.
On the other hand, the protagonist was artistically fascinating and his evil brilliant plans were so much fun, so…
If not for the protagonist-induced “diabolus ex machina”, Suzaku’s actions would have led to a much better situation for his country. I’m guessing your’e arguing that that’s more Euphemia and Suzaku shouldn’t get credit for it, but I don’t think that’s entirely true – she’s definitely very strongly influenced by Suzaku and her interactions with him.
Without Euphemia it would have taken much longer to get into a position with enough power to make real changes, but that doesn’t mean that Suzaku’s approach was necessarily wrong.
I think Vossler being a recurring enemy would undermine the idea. His plan requires Ashe’s cooperation, and he thinks he can change Ashe’s mind by taking away her options. Then Fran suddenly breaks everyone free, and the fight is a last desperate attempt to stop her escaping. You could turn this escape into a level, but past the escape, Vossler wouldn’t be sympathetic anymore, he would just be serving the Empire.
The game is silent in both directions, really. The consequences of the Resistance aren’t shown, and neither are any abuses by the Empire. The player can think whatever they want about the situation and the game will let them.
Arguably Vossler has also been forced into this position because Asge keeps getting her slack-jawed face captured, too. I mean, Vissler legitimately was trying to run a rebellion and never betrayed its secrets. But Ashe, whose life is the entire reason for the rebellion, put herself in harm’s way to the point that Vossler felt he had to sell out to save it.
HOWEVER!
The game is really vague about everything, such that any and all motivations and actions are hopelessly muddled. So that is just me trying to make vodka from mud.
If Vossler survived and continued playing a role in the plot there’s a number of different ways it could go, and I think there’s a number of ways he could be set as an obstacle to the party while still plausibly keeping his pro-Dalmascian motivations intact.
Maybe the “Dawn shard in exchange for (limited) Dalmascan sovereignty” deal is still on, albeit without Ashe as the puppet queen, and so he shows up to fight the party for the Dawn shard.
Maybe they try to reconcile after escaping and he’s convinced that this “dawn shard as nuclear deterrent” plan is just going to cause the empire to “shoot first” and thinks the party needs to be stopped. He could either do this via working directly via the Empire or by turning the resistance against Ashe.
Yeah, if you had him be a long-running antagonist, I don’t think that’d precisely make him more “sympathetic” – the likely outcome is more players are going to hate him than think “this guy has a point”, but I’d argue that’d still be a lot more interesting than the mostly apathetic reaction you get to him in practice.
(If you want more sympathy you really have to go the other way and lay groundwork before the betrayal)
I don’t think I really agree with this – the game isn’t as heavy-handed as it could be, but it’s hardly “silent”. The game pretty clearly establishes “empire bad”: from the unprovoked invasions that starts the game, to the first act establishing that the occupation hasn’t been pretty terrible for Dalmascans, to having Penelo explain to Larsa that the empire is not good, it seems pretty consistent in its portrayal.
That’s the thing, after the opening invasion they really never established that at all. We get a scene of a guard stealing food, and then Vaan steals the guard’s money and we never see those guards again, so that’s a wash. We have a cop in every shop, which is a wash. Then we have the Empire responding to a terrorist attack and arresting people for robbing the Royal Palace. Then multiple NPCs tell us Vayne is making Dalmasca a better place to live.
Penelo is of course a biased party.
The fact that guards stealing food is seemingly a pretty regular occurrence is exactly the sort of evidence that the occupation is bad for the Dalmascans. I don’t think the fact that some street urchin steals his money makes it “a wash” – the soldier is an official part of the empire, the street urchin isn’t. (And if anything, excessive street crime is a further sign of a bad occupation)
Also, the whole Lowtown slum area only exists because of the occupation – it’s not explicitly mentioned in the main cutscenes, but it’s mentioned both by NPCs and in the codex – it’s where the empire relocates a lot of the Dalmascan populace.
The fact that Vayne is “making Dalmasca a better place to live” probably mean things like he’s cut down on how many soldiers rob merchants in the bazaar – it’s better than the occupation up to this point but is not really a net positive on behalf of the empire.
I’d buy an argument that Vaan is too biased to trust, but Penelo? She’s pretty consistently depicted as level-headed, (admittedly, she’s usually standing next to Vaan which does wonders) and unlike Vaan she didn’t lose family in the war (as her parents died in a plague before the war), so she doesn’t have any particular
It doesn’t feel like that. We see it once, and see it immediately addressed by Dalmascan citizens, with no follow-up repercussions. I forgot it happened until I read it in Rocketeer’s playthrough.
The Lowtown slum is mixed messages; it’s mentioned as being an oppression thing, but the music in the place is “flea market for cool kids”, and the most upbeat thing in the game. And then Vaan and Penelo are running around outside free and happy, and the shopkeepers and Hunters all seem to be Rabanastre locals, and it really doesn’t feel like Lowtown is an oppression thing at all.
It happens “once” because the point of this incident is to establish the setting (and Vaan’s character, a bit) – it’d be weird if the game spent a lot of time on showing multiple incidents of robbery in Dalmasca, you only need one to set the setting and the plot’s got other things to do.
And it’s not “addressed” by the citizens. The shopkeeper gets robbed, and the solider gets robbed by Vaan. Vaan does not pay the shopkeeper back, and even if he did… “the soldiers steal from merchants and then locals have to steal things back, at the risk of being arrested (and apparently thrown into the Nabina dungeon without a trial) if they get caught” is not exactly a good situation for the locals.
And I feel like you have very strange views on Lowtown. The fact that the people aren’t constantly miserable doesn’t mean that being kicked out of their homes and forced to move into an underground slum is a good thing.
Vaan and Penelo are only okay (if you can describe being homeless and having to work/steal to survive from a young age as “okay”) because a relatively wealthy Rabinastran merchant has taken it on himself to try to employ/protect as many orphans as they can. That’s great, but the Empire doesn’t get credit for that.
Apparently someone put together the script for the game including all the NPC street dialogue, so I’ll link that (it’s a Google Doc).
I think a fun alternative would be for Rossler to try and exchange both Ashe and the Shard in exchange for better term for the country without having a king/queen. Ultimately Ashe is royalty, for the average citizen does it matter if the person on the top throne is the emperor in a distant castle or some teenager girl in the nearby castle? The game never really says if the country situation really became worse after their annexation, sure we see some of the empire soldier being kinda dick, but its not like local guard can’t be dick either. We saw the castle storeroom and it was full of gold and treasure so it’s not like the previous king wasn’t above using his citizen wealth for pointless luxury.
Rossler just wanting to improve his countrymen situation without caring about royalty would make him a good foil because it’d be really hard to argue against him. The only really bad thing the empire did to the country is declare a war (resulting in plenty of soldier and civilian death), but getting Ashe back on the throne would almost certainly require another war, making the restore regime just as bad as the empire. Cooperation would results in no more people dying and at the end wouldn’t really change anything for the average citizen (the empire is shown to be far richer and technologically advanced resulting in a bit of a “what have the roman ever done for us” situation).
Clarifying since name confusion has been so bad in this series: Rasler is Ashe’s dead husband. Vossler is our party member turncoat.
Ah! good catch.
Yeah, I think the rebels pivoting into some non-monarchical “Dalmascan Nationalist” movement would be interesting, though it’d be a bit tricky to square with the current Vossler’s motivation of switching to the empire because he feels the rebellion is just too costly to continue, so it’d probably involve a bit more rewriting to make it go that way.
Yeah, not having played the game, this is perhaps the first event among the fire hose flood of proper nouns in the story so far that had me going “Oh yeah, that makes sense, and would be a cool idea for the game to go in.” (Of course, that immediately clued me in that it wasn’t going to actually happen.)
The funny thing is that this scene doesn’t seem all that hard to fix. Well, the part where the importance of the ring was never established, that’s hard to fix. That requires a setup and a reminder inserted earlier. But the core concept here is that Pirate, having been stiffed for payment once, demands something of tremendous sentimental value from Princess as collateral for what she wants now, and Princess reluctantly hands it over. Two character’s personality flaws, after simmering for most of the game, suddenly collide explosively. These are not bad ideas!
Forget about Balthier and B’nargin for a moment.
First, let’s suppose that Princess doesn’t wear her dead fiancee’s ring right next to her own because that’s weird anyway. She wears it on a chain, under her clothes, so it’s not obvious she even has it. But through happenstance, Pirate finds out about it: Princess has to do a costume change for some ceremony, Imperials attack in the middle because of course they do, and Pirate is on hand to see Princess run into danger to retrieve the ring and finish putting together her regular outfit, while yelling at her to hurry up already.
Later, the reminder: some NPC makes a passing reference to rebels making a move on Dead Prince’s body. The rebels failed to secure the body, one rebel was lost, and the Imperials mutilated the two bodies together and publicly mounted them on display somewhere to “damage the rebel’s morale” (read: show off how pointlessly cruel the Imperials are for the benefit of the audience). The Imperials note that Dead Prince’s ring was missing; they have no idea why the rebels would even care about it. (Princess might have cared, but she’s dead.) If the cutscene engine is up to the task of tracking Pirate’s sightline over to Princess, maybe all you need is a meaningful look, overwise another line of dialogue will be needed to clarify things for the audience.
All that can be sprinkled in during unrelated happenings (though it would require some elbow grease to contrive places such setup and reminder scenes could fit). The main part, of course, is that Princess hires Pirate while (with the benefit of hindsight) clearly always planning to stiff him on the payment. (This might be a matter of Exact Words: Princess promised Pirate the Priceless Lost Treasure of So-and-So, and if Pirate didn’t know that the Priceless Lost Treasure of So-and-So was worthless, that’s not her problem.)
With the Magic Doodad secured, Princess (thinks that she) doesn’t need Pirate anymore, and rubs the aforementioned stiffing in his face. (To make Princess more sympathetic at the expense of Pirate, she says he’s rewarded as he deserves; to make Pirate more sympathetic at the expense of Princess, the emphasis is more on Pirate’s comparative lack of classical education that allowed her to fool him.)
But of course, then it all goes wrong and it turns out that, oops, actually she does need Pirate’s help…again.
(What she needs his help for is another can of worms. The simplest option is that she needs his services as a badass to get her alive to wherever. When you only have half a dozen people to save the world, being short a hand is a meaningful problem all on its own. You might not ever really use Pirate in combat, but presumably in “reality” all the party members are always fighting, because I have no idea what else could possibly be happening in-universe. Of course, if the rest of the story indicates that Pirate isn’t particularly badass and could be trivially replaced with any guy off the street, that’s it’s own category of problem, since getting three or four of those guys off the street would make every fight a lot easier.)
Everything comes to a head because Princess needs Pirate’s help and Pirate has every reason to say no. Pirate throws back in her face that she’s already betrayed him once. He nearly died in this mess, and he still hasn’t been paid for what he’s done so far, and what she wants now is (of course) even more dangerous than everything that’s come before. And she just lost access to valuables to pay him with.
But…Pirate dangles the possibility that, you know, maybe there is something. After all, if she really does become a queen, she can pay him then.
But wouldn’t you know it, accepting promises of future payment from her didn’t work out so well for him last time. So this time, he wants collateral. Why…how about that pretty ring of hers?
Naturally, Princess promptly yanks her ring off her finger and brandishes it at him, preferably with an insult for mercenary scum like him.
“Not that one.”
In theory, this scene is lightning in a bottle. Princess has spent the entire game up to this point treating people like things. Pirate has spent the entire game up to this point caring about nothing but himself. And yet, even as they’ve clashed, they’ve gotten familiar with each other. The party being in such close proximity has given them just enough intimacy to really hurt each other when they want to. It’s only because they’ve been companions up to this point, it’s only because Pirate has seen Princess in unguarded moments, that he knows that handing over this ring will be like cutting off her own arm.
And yet, as soon as he thought of it, he also knew that she would do it. Because as much as Pirate talks about how Princess is royalty who thinks she’s above the common people, he already knows by this point that it’s not true. She is ultimately a true believer (and if the audience was in doubt, here’s this scene for them). She is walking into this prepared to make sacrifices.
And paying Pirate with this ring, specifically, is actually an excellent idea, far better than going back to shake down her allies for some cold hard cash. Pirate could demand cold hard cash, but that can be put to better use by the rebellion right now. This ring is the perfect kind of payment, because it’s a form of payment that is completely valueless unless she wins. Which means Pirate is actually far more committed to her success than he appears at first glance. Pirate talks about melting the ring down for the gold if she doesn’t pay him, but that’s obviously just to twist the knife, to get a rise out of her; the amount of gold in the ring is trivial.
In theory, the scene is an explosion of colliding character flaws while simultaneously, more subtly, laying the groundwork for how this party isn’t really as about-to-fall-apart as it appears. The conflict instills in the audience a desire to see the party affirm their loyalty to each other later, and the very same scene is foreshadowing that they will.
The conflict is also flexible: if the writer wants to tilt audience sympathies more towards Princess, or more towards Pirate, they can do that by tweaking the circumstances earlier. If, say, Pirate is actually a deserter who abandoned Princess’s armed forces when the Imperials came and the fight seemed hopeless, that makes Princess more sympathetic at the expense of Pirate. On the flip side, if Pirate is actually from a neighboring country who Princess didn’t help when the Imperials invaded there (first they came for the Pirate Isles…), that makes Pirate more sympathetic at the expense of Princess.
Sometimes when a scene seems to have good fundamentals but gets lost in a muddle, I suspect a bad translation. Like, did Balthier intend to hold the ring for ransom, or did he just pick it over all the other available valuables for literally no reason? He says he’ll give the ring back once he finds something more valuable; what the heck does that even mean? A bad translation could explain some of the problems with this scene. But on the other hand, a bad translation couldn’t explain the atrocious mess that is the rest of the story, so…this scene probably can’t be laid at the feet of translation either. (But seriously, he’ll give it back once he finds something more valuable? What does that mean?)
I don’t know what you mean by “weird”, this is actually the common practice when a spouse dies. It’d be weird if she was hiding it.
I suppose you could concoct some subplot where the ring was magic and exherted some kind of force on her if whe was directly wearing it. Hell, maybe the ring was housing yet another of those nethicites, which could actually make this whole exchange pay off at the end.
It doesn’t really matter anyway, because it doesn’t seem the writers are interesting in paying things off.
I’m sorry, can I complain about something really small for a moment? I know I don’t often do this. This has basically always bugged me but I actually considered it too obvious to bother bringing up in the Travelog.
So, from the moment the party finally meets Ashe again on the Leviathan over Dorstonis to the moment the shards’ nature is revealed over Jagd Yensa, we’ve lamented the loss of the Dusk Shard and sought the Dawn Shard for the sole reason of using them to back Ashe’s identity and thus her claim to the throne of Dalmasca. Even now thar we know the shards are nethicite, the symbolic function of the Dawn Shard will continue to provide most of its actual use to the plot going forward.
This has never made any sense to me.
No one has ever heard of these relics. Basch reveals the Dusk Shard’s existence as if it were a state secret, which it seems to be; no one else in the party knew the significance of the “Goddess Magicite.” The Empire knew of it, and of the Dawn Shard, but they have special reason to know and even among them Ghis may be one of the only people to have ever heard of them due to his role as Vayne’s special servant throughout the Galtean Peninsula. And even though Basch reveals the Dusk Shard’s existence, I know for a fact he has no idea what it looks like; refer back to Part 3, which features a screenshot of Basch looking directly at the thing as Vaan offers it to Balthier. He doesn’t say, “Wow, that looks exactly like a dodectuple-super-secret Dalmascan royal treasure handed down from the Dynast-King Raithwall himself. Where exactly did you find that?”
Let’s say the Imperials didn’t immediately sieze the Dusk Shard because they don’t have a mysterious master plan to sieze the Dynast-King’s nethicite relics. Vaan coincidentally pulls it out of his britches and hands it to Ashe, intuitively understanding its connection to Basch’s words as he does, and the stunned Imperials say, “Wow, she has the Shard! She really is the princess!” Well, Ghis wouldn’t say that because the Imperials— the only people in Ivalice who actually recognize the fucking stone— already know Ashe really is the princess; they just don’t give a shit. They were threatening to feign ignorance of “Amalia’s” identity to justify executing her as a common criminal. Basch intercedes with this Dusk Shard business to try to pre-empt that, but does he think they care? Ghis gonna say, “Oh, I guess you have the magic princess proof rock, can’t do nuthin’ now” and she goes on her merry way?” And that’s assuming they didn’t already miraculously have the Shard with them. If they didn’t, Ghis gonna say, “Yes, we will let you and the princess that we fully realize is the princess root around for a rock that will prove to us she’s the princess so we won’t conveniently kill her right now as we’d really like to do but haven’t done so far.” Actually, it’s not clear why they haven’t executed Ashe or why they don’t even after they have the Dusk Shard unless this is all some kind of ludicrously elaborate and impossible plan to engineer events to circulate the nethicite to the Empire, but the open question of Vayne and his buddies’ possible uncanny omniscience is one thar I’d really prefer to table for a much later date.
So if not the Imperials, to whom is Ashe gonna use the magic rocks to prove her lineage and lay claim to her throne? Not her uncle, who again already knows she’s legit but whose hands are tied by the delicate balance of power. The people of Rabanastre? She strolls into Muthru Bazaar, shows John Q. Fruitseller this chunk of orange rock, apparently magicite the likes of which you can buy by the wheelbarrow, and says, “I have the rock, I am the princess, I am the princess because I have this rock,” the fuck is he gonna think? He’s gonna say, “Funny, this here chaw makes me Joe DiMaggio,” before spitting four ounces of tobacco juice in her face.
Just kidding. This would totally work. Of course it would fucking work, we all know it would work. That’s not the point. The point is no one should know or care what this rock is and no one would give a fuck that Ashe or Vaan or Ghis or whoever had it, and it wouldn’t mean anything to anyone as a predicate to claims of royalty!
But let’s forget all that and just say that people know what these stones are. They’ve heard of them, they know what they look like, they can tell they’re genuine, and they know their connections to House Dalmasca and Raithwall. This is still prior to a related and equally important problem with this whole premise: the Dusk and Dawn Shards are in no way identifiable with the particular person of Ashe nor anyone else who holds them. They’re things. Things you can just have.
So Basch says he knows of an artifact that proves its bearer is the heir of Raminas. Vaan pulls it out of his Aladdin pants as it glows. A short beat passes, and Ghis exclaims, “By Faram! This boy is the princess of Dalmasca!” You see, anyone can just kinda pick up a rock, so I don’t know why Vaan handing that rock to Ashe would help prove to anyone (again, accepting that the Imperials already know Ashe/don’t care) that she’s genuine royalty. If Vaan didn’t have it, what was Basch’s theory of this case? He convinces Ghis, who reluctantly but graciously allows Basch and Ashe to make a supervised return to Rabanastre Palace so they can root around in a closet under the stairs (Does Basch know where it was hidden? Did Ashe even know of the Dusk Shard beforehand, or was this news to her as well?) until they stumble upon it? Basch pries it out of the statue, places it in Ashe’s hand. Ghis asks, “Is that it? That’s the Dusk Shard?” Basch, in a shaky voice, replies, “I-I guess…? I… haven’t ever seen it in person, so…” A brief moment passes. And Ghis exclaims, “By Faram! She bears the Stone! She’s the true heir of Raminas! Also, my boss wants that rock, give it here.”
If there was some sort of trick in place to ensure that no one but a true heir could find or claim the stone, it might be different, but Vaan, Balthier, and Fran know that’s not true. It all seems to rest on the idea that Ashe, the true princess, would be likeliest to possess a unique, secret treasure of Dalmasca, even though everyone present knows that she did not.
If the Dusk Shard were a sort of famous crown jewel which mysteriously went missing on the eve of the Imperial occupation and hadn’t been seen since just after Ashe’s tragic suicide, only for Amalia, resistance leader, to reappear, Dusk Shard in hand, claiming her death to be a cruel Archadian deception, now that would be one hell of a public case for Ashe’s accession.
And of course this only goes for the Dusk Shard. The Dawn Shard is right out. Not at all a treasure peculiar to House Dalmasca, we hike God knows how far to dig the thing up out of the ground to… prove Ashe is the princess, back from the dead, because she has it? This thing that no one knows what it is? Now, they do explain that one who bore the Dusk or Midlight Shards could pass unharmed through Raithwall’s tomb and claim the Dawn Shard, so in a sense it’s likeliest for a scion of Houses Nabradia and Dalmasca, heirs of the Dynast-King, to claim and bear the Dawn Shard. But of course we didn’t do that, we just fought our way to the bottom and took it because our party of six is tough enough. Our part of Ashe, Basch, Chachi, Chewie, Peewee and Peewee’s Admirer. I guess no one else over the past several centuries was tough enough. Nor the Empire, who are desperate for the Stone, know where it is, and can fly there at leisure. Whatever.
Once we got back to Rabanastre, whatever was to stop Fran from yanking the Shard from Ashe’s hands, hammer-tossing her out of the scene by her ankles, and claiming, “I have the rock, I am the princess, I am the princess because I have this rock! And I have a LOT of orders in mind for any ruggedly handsome Dalmascan Knights that happen to be listening!” Would the people of Dalmasca buy it? Well, of course they would. Grab the linseed oil, Basch, you’ll need it. But the obvious point is that the reason they shouldn’t believe it is the same reason they shouldn’t believe the same claim from Ashe: it’s just a rock that anyone can pick up, and picking it up doesn’t prove anything at all. Especially if they don’t know what it is, which they don’t.
This would all be very different if the supposed proof of Ashe’s lineage weren’t a mere fungible trinket, but something peculiar to Ashe herself, or her family. Imagine Basch interjects at Dorstonis with this stunner: “Just as hoary Raithwall laid waste to his foes centuries past, only one of the Dynast-King’s blood, true heir of House Dalmasca, could fire lasers out of their nipples.” Slowly, everyone looks askance at Ashe. Jeer me for my typical crassness if you must, this would clear the air in a hurry. Talk about a show of force! And if you think that’s impressive, you should have seen what Rasler could do. Of course I realize why they can’t write it that way: no Maguffin plot.
You know what hackneyed fantasy cliché hogwash would sew this up in a heartbeat? A stupid-ass prophecy. “Only the true heir of the ancient conqueror shall descend yon crypt and return with the cool rock.” Now that’s when you can show up in Rabanastre with the cool rock and say you’re the princess… even if Penelo would still have just as strong a public case as Ashe. Hey, she helped as much as anyone! Prove you could have done it alone, Ashe!
I’m tempted to almost give the game the barest splinter of the first shred of marginal credit for admitting that even the strongest claim of Ashe’s heritage is not in itself strong enough for Ivalice at large, and that an essential step to her accession is securing the assent of the Pope, more or less: a traditionally neutral third party that nations are forced to accept as a legitimate authority regardless of the current state of Ivalician politics. It fits with the game’s presentation of high-level politics in Ivalice as a complex give and take of many players balancing their wants against their obligations, in stark contrast to the looming threat of truly arbitrary power. But Ashe’s own part to play with this whole Shard business is a little too lacking for the Gran Kiltias’ impimatur to legitimize for me as a member of the audience, sufficient though it may be for the nations of Ivalice.
So its been a long time since I played so I might miss some of the nitty gritty details, but isn’t the idea that only Raithwall descendant can use the stone (even if they don’t know how) so if Ashe show up with the stone and does *something magikal* with it she can prove that she has a claim on the throne?
The *something magikal* part is a bit complicated since I don’t think the game ever make it clear what exactly it does, but they do mention that Raithwall could use it to make extraordinary feat happen and was able to conquer the world with it (I like to think that all party member will combine power ranger style into a fighting robot).
Then once Ashe is established as correct heir she can ask the other super power for help restoring her to rightful place, which they’ll accept since they’re just looking for an excuse to check the empire ambition and would much rather the battleground be a tiny country they don’t care about rather than their own territory.
No. Even assuming there was a cut storyline where Vaan has Royal Blood and that’s why he could find the stone and make it glow: the ending cutscene here lets us know that the Empire already used a third stone, the Midlight Shard, to nuke Nabudis. So anyone can use it once they have it.
Don’t they need to use machine to use the stone while, presumably, a descendent could use them naturally?
Kinda like the difference between a nuke and Dr. Manhattan.
Don’t think so, but I don’t remember the details. Endgame will explain it when we finally get there.
After all this time, aren’t there many thousands of Wraithwall descendants running around?
Also, if the plan is to build support from Persia:
I. They aren’t going to care about legitimacy so much as her ability to mobilize the populus and provide troops.
II. The party really aught to go there and start buttering them up.
Given who will serve as our liaison to Rozarria, the buttering up might be literal.
I am not misremembering this am I? It is like on the other side of the river from our starting location, but we never get to go there?
You never go there, but you meet someone from there trying to prevent the war.
Isn’t that directly opposed to our goals of ‘send soldiers and money to help me get my throne back’? Though I do remember characters motivations swinging wildly whenever a new writer gets the pen.
Ashe doesn’t ever really deliberately seek the character in question out; he instead interjects at times trying to sway Ashe with the argument that an Archadia-Rozarria conflict would leave Dalmasca in the crossfire and I don’t think it ever wavers from that.
Personally, I’m hoping that this means there’s a character we meet later, who’s a slice of bread or a butterknife.
Unfortunately, I think this game takes itself too seriously.
This is something I want to see SO DARN BADLY in a fantasy novel or whatever: “Only the true-blooded descendant may wield the sword/enter the tomb/read the sacred Jedi texts!” And then it turns out that Old King Whats-his-face is an ancestor of everyone on the continent at this point…
Well, the numbers aren’t crazy if you require an unbroken chain father-to-son (mother-daughter uses the same math), but once you allow both the numbers just explode.
I guess you could go all in on the pure-bloodedness thing. “Oh no! You can’t use the sacred thing-a-ma-jig, because your mother didn’t marry her cousin. “
Oh, man, I’ve been having all those thoughts throughout my entire reading of this series. Since I never got to finish the game I genuinely expected you to reveal in a later entry just how and why would the damn stones be used as proof of Ashe’s lineage. But here you are, just as confused by this whole thing as I am.
And all I could think of was that this had to have something to do with that supposed connection between Ashe and Vaan. Maybe Vaan is secretly a living Magicite or some BS like that and only near the end it’d be revealed that Ashe was the only one who was able to get him to do some magical thing, and that would reveal who she was. But I guess not. We’re left without a proper explanation for how Ashe proves her lineage and for what the hell is Vaan doing here.
I don’t even think this is a minor issue, I think it’s a fundamental flaw with the game’s story.
Chasing after Macguffins is _lame_. Whenever someone parodies a videogame plot they always make it about ‘Finding ten special rings/gems/stones’.
Most games aren’t like that these days, they centre their story on the actual conflict and character. But games that do typically don’t care about story, because it’s a worthless plot.
And here not only is a significant amount of the game spent chasing Macguffins, it doesn’t even make sense. Ashe doesn’t need to prove her identity, eye witnesses can recognise her and the people of Dalmasca are desperate to come back.
And the story without the Macguffin is more interesting! Some people claiming Ashe is a pretender and her trying to gain their trust is actual plot. It puts the focus on the politics that is the best part of the game.
In the recaps all this plotting sounds fun. But the experience of the game is that all the plotting is continually shoved aside in place of long tortured explanations of why the Macguffin is important and where they have to go next. And then those explanations don’t even make sense.
I utterly hate the next section of the game visiting the Garif. It’s a long long journey for an incredibly tenuous reason, visiting a backwater place of no relevance to anything for information that’s barely useful. But if we were visiting the Garif because we were recruiting allies for our resistance? That’s fun (they’d still be terrible at it, but at least we’re doing something interesting)
I think it depends on the MacGuffin IS. That kind of plot can work, provided you’re clear what the MacGuffin is and why you want it.
It’s not a great example, but I’ve been playing Sekiro recently, and that’s chock-full of MacGuffins – but they all serve a clear purpose, they’re all linked to the central theme of the story*, and they keep you moving from place to place.
To clarify, I agree that XII is doing a MacGuffin plot terribly, and your ‘focus on the politics’ idea sounds a hell of a lot better. The Magicite even works fine as it is, because everyone’s scrambling to get their hands on magical nukes.
Hell, if it’s REALLY IMPORTANT that we go to see the Garif, then maybe they know how to recharge/rearm the Magicite for us?
*Not that the story’s amazing. But it’s definitely on the right side of ‘serviceable’.
I think you may be crossing the streams a bit here; the purpose of visiting the Garif is because they’ve held nethicite in the past and may know how to use it (the answer turns out to be “no, we don’t” though so it ends up being a bit of a waste in-universe). The Gran Kiltias is the one we’re visiting to confirm legitimacy or whatever.
No, that’s exactly my memory of the Garif plot. I’m fine nethicite existing as a nuke-like force, but I’m utterly bored by the amount of game spent chasing down special chunks of nethicite or how to use those special chunks of nethicite once they’re found.
Before I forget again; the Dawn and Dusk Shards, and the Manufactured Nethicite, are all equippable items. Both shards work exactly the same; 20 points of magic resistance, but your MP is permanently set to zero. Manufactured Nethicite is similar but not the same; half damage from elements, at the cost of permanent Silence, meaning you can’t use your MP. It’s a nice mechanical reinforcement of their plot value.
I feel myself yet again in the unenviable position to actually offer some praise to FFXIII. Not because of its handling of the plot, which is utterly stupid from beginning to end. Not because its characters drive plot forward in the way Vaan refuses to, since all of those assholes just keep doing whatever the villain asks them to, because they’re a bunch of empty-headed morons. No, its because for all of its faults its characters are at least visually distinctive.
Look at those screenshots up there with Ashe, Penelo, Vaan and Basch. You can barely tell which one is which or what gender they’re supposed to be. They all look like marginally different clones from the same underwear model or a bunch of siblings who obviously buy their clothes at the same place. Hell, you can only tell Balthier from the rest because he’s the only one who doesn’t like to show skin.
I guess FFXII was fighting gaming stereotypes back then. It used to be that RPG characters looked all the same accross different games, but FFXII made them all look the same in the same game. Amazing.