Good Robot and the Chaos of Feedback

By Shamus Posted Friday Apr 8, 2016

Filed under: Notices 77 comments

People are playing Good Robot WHICH YOU CAN BUY NOW ON STEAM BECAUSE I’M SURE YOU HAVEN’T SEEN THIS LINK TEN TIMES THIS WEEK ALREADY and for the most part people seem to be enjoying it. We’re getting lots of feedback, which is also good. However, the feedback is complete chaos.

I’m getting feedback and bug reports via email. And on Twitter. And on the announcement post. And in the hangout post. And on the bounty post. And on the Steam forums for the game. And then some people are contacting Arvind. It’s chaos.

This is our fault. We never gave people a fixed point of contact, so people are just defaulting to whatever is the most convenient at the moment. In our defense, Arvind has never released a game attached to a blog / personality like this one, and I’ve never released any game ever.

So for the sake of my sanity, we need to funnel all the feedback into one place. And that place is the Steam forums. That way people with similar issues can share information. That will give us a single place to go when trying to figure out which issues are the most common or pressing. Also, the Steam forums are much better for discussions that might run for weeks of back-and-forth, trial-and-error troubleshooting, since there’s no way for you to know I’ve replied to you in an old comment here on the blog.

Of course, you’re still welcome to criticize and complain here on the blog. Armchair game design is kind of what we do around here, and if I can spend the better part of a year painstakingly dumping on every facet of Mass Effect, then it would be crazy to declare my own game off-limits. If something bugs you or you just want to say how you would have done something differently, then by all means: Have at you.

But if you aren’t just making conversation and you actually want your feedback to influence the upcoming patches, then please post your feedback to the Good Robot discussion on Steam. I’m sorry if that’s not super-convenient. I’m sure many of you have never even bothered with the Steam forums. Frankly, I don’t like it over there. The spelling is bad, the grammar is worse, the color scheme is dark, and nobody ever answers my questions anyway. But it really is best way for us to respond in a coherent manner.

We have meetings twice a week, and now that the game is out a big part of that meeting is going to be going over the list of complaints, crashes, concerns, grievances, vendettas, and angry rants about how the sawblade gun is totally bullshit and why is that even in the game are you kidding me. While I read every comment on the site, the other members of the team do not.

Also – and I realize you know this already because you’re smart and articulate, but I’m saying so anyway as a formality – please make your topic titles as descriptive as possible. “Crash” is bad. “Crash when changing levels” is much more useful. “Strange bug” is bad. “Can’t fire secondary weapons on Tuesday” is better. “Game is unbalanced” is (probably) bad, while “Weapon prices are unbalanced” is much better. Be specific. Look for similar posts before posting, because one long thread where ten people report X is far more likely to catch our attention than ten single-post topics that all seem to be sort of X-ish.

Our plan is to fix the worst bugs right away. I don’t have a timetable for a patch yet. We have ten or so fixes done already, but we need to work out where we want to draw the line between “stuff that needs to be in the first patch” and “stuff that can wait”.

Thanks for your patience. The sawblade is bullshit.

 


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77 thoughts on “Good Robot and the Chaos of Feedback

  1. newplan says:

    I played the game and liked it but I’ve got some feedback.

    What’s with all the robots? I really wasn’t expecting that based on the pre-game sales pitch.

    1. MrGuy says:

      Some of them aren’t even good.

      1. And on top of that, a few of them tried to kill me! It ruined my entire game experience.

        1. newplan says:

          OMG! Me too!

          I didn’t want to say anything because I assumed I was the only one experiencing that bug.

          Bug report – at least one of the other robots tried to kill my robot for some reason.

      2. Shoeboxjeddy says:

        I’m really missing “choice and consequence” gameplay here. Does my robot… HAVE to be good? Couldn’t he be (stay with me here) BAD??? Or at least Renegade. Can I push another robot out a window and then say something clever is what I’m asking.

  2. krellen says:

    I’m not sure the problem is so much the sawblade as it is the fact that you can friendly fire with some weapons. If your own sawblade (or grenades, or missiles, etc.) didn’t kill you, it would be way less bullshit.

    1. Daemian Lucifer says:

      Or if all the weapons could kill you.Though that would make the game harder.

    2. Zidy says:

      Wait, there’s friendly fire in this game for some of the weapons? Shit, now that explains why I kept losing health when I couldn’t find any nearby enemies. I’m going to need to test this tonight when I get home.

      (Btw, Shamus and team – the game is awesome and stupid addicting, even when I know I should be going to bed. Just one more attempt/level…)

      1. Joe Informatico says:

        I don’t think any of the Primary weapons can hurt you, even if they have the ricochet effect (not any of the ones I tried, anyway). Some of the Secondary ones have splash damage that can hurt you if you’re like right next to the wall or enemy when they go off. You have to be extra careful with bouncing Secondaries like, e.g. the Grenades.

        1. Sabrdance (MatthewH) says:

          So I’d never used the sawblade gun. Never even seen it. Then I beat the third boss (second level, not counting the prologue) and the sawblade gun was the drop. And I though, I’ll see what this thing is about.

          I didn’t even get out of the starting zone on the third level.

      2. Zak McKracken says:

        Not having played the game but having read comments and some gameplay videos, thus solidly qualified for an armchair analysis, I’d say this:

        Why doesn’t the game explain what the things do? You get a name for a weapon but no explanation that allows the player to choose between them. This is where the friendly fire thing would need to be communicated. I think not explaining these things beforehand would probably be okay if you had infinite lives or such but if a small misunderstanding in the last level can mean that you have to replay the entire game from the start, isn’t that a bad case of DIAS?

        I still plan to buy the game as soon as there’s a non-steam version available anywhere. One question though: Would it be possible for me to mod it so that I have a certain number of lives/warranties? I bet that’d make it much easier to explore the game before playing in “hardcore roguelike” mode.

    3. Funklewrinkler says:

      I’ve seen people talk about accidentally hitting themselves with missiles and such, but oddly enough, it’s never happened to me. I’ve never so much as been damaged by one of my own weapons. I even started a game with the sole intention of harming my sleek, robot body with my own weapons, and nada. This with the weapons that’ve been mentioned as dealing damage to you.

      Hopefully I’m just really bad a hurting myself and it’s not some strange glitch.

      1. Naota says:

        I’d assume the former. I’ve also never hit myself with a friendly sawblade during a serious playthrough, even while fighting enemies that also fired them back at me.

        …but if we’re talking about testing? Yesterday I killed myself in one hit with the sawblade in a level with the enemy AI disabled. My advice is to stop trying to actively hit yourself and casually enter situations where there is both no reason to use these weapons and every reason that dying right now would be debasing, stupid, embarrassing, and frankly immoral.

  3. Will says:

    Well, I would like to officially report that I had zero technical issues buying, installing and playing Good Robot. Everything went very smoothly, which is not at all in line with what I have come to expect from my games, and I suggest you rectify it as soon as is practicable. ;)

    1. Kelerak says:

      It doesn’t crash nearly as often as any Ubisoft game on PC. 4/10, needs fixing.

      1. Scourge says:

        Als more DLC and a season pass.

  4. Mephane says:

    Indeed, Steam forums are more probably more effective for feedback, not only because here on the blog won’t always be a recent Good Robot post so feedback would end up at any potential old or newish post, but because you can’t organize feedback in the form of individual threads.

    I just reposted my long feedback post from the second hangout blog post there. Would still love a response, because it would be interesting to hear what you think about the topic, and whether you are pleased with how it turned out in that regard. :)

    1. Zak McKracken says:

      I’m also thinking that eventually there may be people buying GR who have no idea about this blog’s existence. Therefore the bug-reporting shouldn’t be here.

      Then again, I’m still hoping that there will eventually be people who buy the game in a way that does not involve Steam (though the good people of Pyrodactyl know this already and do whatever they can to make this happen, and I should probably stop mentioning that in every single post…)

  5. Wide And Nerdy â„¢ says:

    You can ignore all my feedback if you do twice as much as Daemian, The Rocketeer, and Retsam want you to do. Hope that makes it simpler.

  6. shpelley says:

    I feel like I’m partially to blame for this. I posted a huge list of random stuff, Arvind commented on it and then the thread kind of blew up :P

  7. Steve C says:

    I want to read Feedback about your developer experiences now that the game is out. I want to know what you are most proud of, what you personally like most, that sort of thing. And no answers like, “Watching a child’s eyes light up as they play or anything lame like that. I want to know what subroutines and mechanics give you a warm fuzzy feeling.

    And of course I’d to read that here on the blog since dissecting what works in games is why I come here.

  8. KingJosh says:

    Strange Bugs

    I haven’t been disarmed and/or disabled in a cutscene at all.

    None of the good micro transactions have asked for real money yet. They’ve all only used in-game currency.

    I pressed “X.” I didn’t win!

    The DRM has, thus far, failed to crash my game, delete my progress, or reset my settings to default.

    It plays just fine on my laptop, even though my laptop cost less than $2,000(US).

    1. Tizzy says:

      The button prompts for QTEs are not clearly displayed

      The five minute unnecessary expository cutscene is short by about 5 minutes

      What do bad robots eat? The game fails to answer this crucial question

      1. Adeon says:

        The lack of Day 1 DLC is really frustrating. I have yet to have my progress interrupted by a reminder that I can purchase an enhanced edition and it’s really throwing me off.

        1. MrGuy says:

          Personally, I’m disappointed by the massive ludonarrative dissonance.

      2. KingJosh says:

        “Eat lead/laser, Bad Robots!!”

      3. MadTinkerer says:

        Bad Robots are fueled by the tears of gamers attempting to get hat-based achievements.

    2. modus0 says:

      I’m annoyed by they egregious lack of cutscenes period. I mean, how am I supposed to end up in precarious situations without them?

      Where are the audio logs detailing pointless minutiae about the lives of people I’ll never meet?

      What about the quasi-sympathetic motivations for why the bad robots killed all those people? Surely they had a somewhat justifiable reason for doing that, right?

      And lens flares. Everybody knows you can’t release a game without lens flares, so where are they?

      1. JackTheStripper says:

        How will people know that I lament the death of my long time friend if I can’t press F?

      2. And on top of that, I don’t appear to be playing as a 30-something grizzled white dude with short brown hair and a gravely voice. I can’t identify with the game at all like this! A robot? How am I supposed to maintain immersion?!

        1. Rick says:

          And what’s all this colour and contrast? Where are the grey corridors or brown deserts?

    3. TMC_Sherpa says:

      I know right?
      I haven’t had a single instance of forced failure yet.

    4. MadTinkerer says:

      The game is not correctly connecting to the DRM server. I am able to play the single-player mode offline with no restrictions at all!

      Most of the item descriptions are not painfully forced puns. I thought Rutskarn was writing this!

      THAC0 doesn’t seem to affect hit chance at all.

  9. Cordance says:

    I reported a “bug/design flaw”, I emailed directly to Arvind (actually pyrodactyl games but its his email) along with everything else I thought was interesting behavior. I did this even though I noticed the request to use the steam forums the main reason for this is because if I posted it publicly all hell could have broken lose. Is the steam forums “safe” with that kind of information?

    1. No, for the kind of info you mailed me, email is the best. Any exploit of that nature is best reported privately.

      1. Tizzy says:

        Exploit??? I smell blood in the water now.

        1. Mephane says:

          My robot senses are telling me Cordance probably merely found out how modding in this game works. :)

          1. Cordance says:

            No modding there is no challenge in breaking a game via modding. I also wouldnt have reported modding as a bug.

          1. Galad says:

            If it is fixed, what was the critical issue? :P

            1. Cordance says:

              It let me get the top score globally in the game when I finished it and I didnt abuse it “much” and my score has been removed by Arvind to keep the leaderboard fair for everyone who wants to have a chance to get it.

              1. Gm says:

                Oh what was the score by the way? cheers

      2. Dragmire says:

        That sounds interesting. After it’s fixed, can we know what it was?

  10. Zekiel says:

    Just wanted to say that as someone who generally doesn’t really like this sort of game and mainly bought it to support Shamus I am surprised to find myself really enjoying it. Its great to play for 15 minutes at a time when I don’t have time for anything else.

    And I haven’t found any bugs. Yay! Good work team!

    1. Rick says:

      This is me too. I have barely any gaming time on my hands but wanted to support Shamus and was also curious.

      Now I play for 15 minutes here and there and I’m really enjoying it. I’ve got to restart into Windows from Linux to play, but it’s worth it. It just means I can’t alt-tab to play it.

  11. JackTheStripper says:

    Yeah, I’d like to report a problem with the game. Apparently, someone decided to steal the intro and outro music from the Diecast and put it in the game. You guys are gonna get sued if you don’t fix this, I heard Shamus Young is very litigious. Or maybe he’ll only post a very stern reproach on his blog about it, I don’t know.

    1. TMC_Sherpa says:

      Or?

  12. Shamus my suggestion for your next game, heck even for Pyrodactyl’s next game is to put up a ticket based feedback form on the official web page for the game on the developer/game website.

    With selectable categories/subcategories it would help sort things, priority can be set too by administrators and tickets can be assigned. I’m not saying you should use Bugzilla (that Mozilla uses for Firefox), there are other solutions out there that are as good.
    Wikipedia has a good starting list of issue trackers.

    Edit: I’d suggest one that support Google/Live/Twitter/Facebook/etc for a user login (to prevent spam).

  13. Abnaxis says:

    Does anyone know how to change the language on the Steam forums. When I follow the link it’s something that isn’t English, and I can’t read where to change it…

    1. Nixitur says:

      If you’re logged in, you click on your name in the upper right and choose the third option which is “Change language”. This should open up a ton of language options.
      If you’re not logged in, the dropdown menu in the upper right is for changing language.

  14. Brandon says:

    Curse you, Shamus Young! I bought your gosh-darned game because I like supporting folks I like, and I am enjoying it! Unfortunately, I hate being happy, so now I’m miserable because your game is fun!

  15. J Greely says:

    How’s this for a bug report? On my 2009 Lenovo S12 netbook with a 1.6GHz Atom N270, Nvidia ION graphics, and 3GB of RAM, running Windows 10 Pro, I only got 25-45 fps at 720×480. :-)

    The game ran flawlessly, just more slowly; fps never dropped below 30 during the boss fight at the end of the prologue. The only actual complaint I can make is that cash pickup values are unreadably small at that resolution.

    -j

    1. Mephane says:

      Well this sounds like it is definitely below the minimum specs.

      1. J Greely says:

        Way, way below. The hamsters driving the CPU got worn out just trying to install Steam.

        And yet, I could still kill bad robots at half-speed. All praise to Shamus for performance optimization.

        -j

  16. Narida says:

    So I wanted to post some feedback/review, and as I don’t think my issues are really things that can be easily fixed, I might as well post it here.

    Basically, although the game advertises itself as “fast-paced”, most of the time, I find myself hanging back so enemies are on just the edge of the screen or hiding behind a corner and doing the classic “pop out of cover and shoot”. For example in Beat Hazard (a bullet hell type thing) you’re required to actively dodge around and between enemies. In contrast, many of Good Robot’s design decisions seem to actively discourage this kind of thing.

    Enemies do a lot of damage and will sometimes pop out with surprise shotgun blast. Combined with the harsh punishment for failure it makes slow approaches preferable. Enemies shoot out so many bullets that dodging them becomes very difficult, and it is further exacerbated by the fact that the dangerous projectile aren’t easily distinguished from the miasma of background particle effects, own bullets and the strangely-homing cash-stars. (Wouldn’t robots, of all beings, have moved past a cash-based economy? It’s so much less hassle) Dodging bullets is also hindered by the often claustrophobic level environments and the limited sight radius makes dodging around enemies risk triggering even more unseen enemies.

    Also, finding oneself halfway through a level with only a sliver of health, no way of healing and awaiting certain death is frustrating. I’ll admit it freely, I miss my recharging shields. In any case, they seem misnamed, wouldn’t armor be more appropriate for something you need to pay to repair?

    Playing badly requires one to spend more on warranties and shield repairs and less on upgrades, which seems like the very antithesis of Self-Balancing Gameplay

    I haven’t posted this a Steam Review, it didn’t really seem fair as I wouldn’t have bought this type of game (2D, roguelike) if it weren’t for Shamus’s & Rutskarn’s involvement. In any case, feel free to disregard these issues as less of problems with the game and more my incompatible preferences. (That or I just need to git gud)

    1. Syal says:

      The lack of any free healing sources is kind of a surprise, I don’t think a lot of games do that. Usually there’s at least a medpack somewhere you can find. Kind of makes the ideal strategy to only buy shield upgrades, and only when you’re hurt so you can always afford a heal.

      I wonder how the game would change if the whole time you were finding the bodies of fallen robots and constantly scavenging their hats.

      1. Volatar says:

        I was certainly thrown off at first by the lack of heals as I went. The fact that the green pickups were money, and not health was super weird.

        Green pickups are health. Yellow are money. Red is for powerups. I thought everyone knew that. But not Shamus apparently. :)

        1. ThaneofFife says:

          Seconded.

          When I saw the green stars on the let’s play videos, I was really confused. Yellow/gold has been money is practically every game I’ve played for the last decade. The only exceptions were where the money was actually bill-shaped–then it was green. So the green stars are doubly-confusing.

          One thing I’m curious about for Shamus or Arvind, is whether you all have thought about doing a color-blind mode for the game? I’m not color-blind myself, but I have several friends who are.

          Hope the sales are exceeding your expectations!

    2. Nidokoenig says:

      My take, though I’m unable to play the game as yet, is that the game isn’t designed to be self-balancing, it’s a skill test. Like Contra and traditional shmups, getting hurt forces you to play better, to not get hit, to choose your shots better, and so on. You aren’t meant to be able to beat the whole of Contra with just the peashooter, but forcing you to try if you screw up is a valuable learning experience, it puts you in a pinch that grabs your full attention. Now, this might not be your preferred method of learning, but it’s well-reasoned and benevolent, so try to get over any misconception to the contrary. If nothing else, those ideas won’t help you overcome the challenge.

    3. Funklewrinkler says:

      Like Nidokoenig said, it really is a Skill Test. All the things people weren’t expecting — all prices going up for skills when only one is bought, paying for health/lack of health pickups, spurts of Bullet Hell Insanity intermingled with constant tension and skirmishes instead of Crazy-Crazy-Crazy-In-Your-Face-All-The-Time run-and-gun gameplay (which may only be a few people, but eh) — these things make the game more difficult, which it seems is what they were going for.

      I love it and can very much respect it for what it is even though I really don’t like games like this. I also loved riding the adrenaline when I only had a sliver of health halfway through a level with no way of healing. However, these things (in this paragraph) are subjective.

      Now, as to “shields” and “money”, headcanon that to whatever you want to since there really is no canon: i.e., The shield technology is like most shield technology in science fiction wherein shields cannot recharge without an outside source of power, and those green asterisks are the physical manifestation, for our benefit, of credits transferring from the bad robots to you, the good robot (or valuable parts which cannot be incorporated into your own body; the possibilities are many).

      However, and hopefully you read or skipped to this, the “fast paced” is a misnomer if you’re not the kind of player who doesn’t care much about getting far or likes spending a lot of money on repairs. That or if you have what I believe the young people nowadays refer to as “leet skillz” and what other people call “being good”. Or lucky. Or insane. Because this game is incredibly difficult even when you don’t zoom all over the place like a psycho who, having just downed several gallons of PCP mixed half-and-half with Mt. Dew Code Red and found a metal trashcan without a bottom, a broom attached to one side, and a pizza box attached to the other and decided to wear it, saw a Biker convention a few streets down and decided to teach those guys who’s boss.

      tl;dr — “Fast paced”? You’re right: it’s not, really. The rest is inconsequential, but I’m sorry it rubs you wrong.

    4. The Other Matt K says:

      This was very similar to my experience. The sheer amount of damage that enemies deal – along with almost no way to upgrade your own durability – means that the ‘proper’ way I found to play wasn’t the sort of fast-paced momentum I was hoping for, but instead to unload bouncing/exploding/etc shots into corridors at enemies out of sight, and when they came after me, to rapidly retreat while gunning them down.

      This is also compounded by how upgrades and healing scale in price – the more you use them, the more expensive they get. Which means the game encourages you not to heal unless really injured, which means an even more cautious style of play… and a lot of frustration when something goes wrong.

      Which seems to happen a bunch, since the game also doesn’t want to provide any instruction or guidance up front, instead relying on replaying it to actually learn the ins and outs of the enemies and the stages and the weapons. From some of the posts in the steam forums, I get that this is somewhat intentional design, but I can’t say I’m particularly a fan of that approach… and I’m somewhat surprised to see that approach, given how Shamus has typically been against games that punish the player in that fashion. Switching to a new weapon (that one assumes will be an awesome upgrade) at the end of a stage, and then moving to the next level and discovering the entire final zones are electrified and your weapon (with heavy recoil) is basically a guaranteed game over… is a rather frustrating experience after an hour of play into the game.

      Even outside of how that affects the difficulty, it also is just poor form in terms of making the game feel like a finished product. For example, it took quite a while before I realized I could exit a playthrough to the main menu and then continue that game later – the pause screen (with no mention of saving progress) just makes it sound like exiting to the main menu will lose all progress and force you to start over.

      Anyway, as Narida notes, it might just be that this style of game isn’t for me. And I should emphasize that I did enjoy many aspects of it – it is a gorgeous game, and the ‘feel’ of flying around through these levels unleashing torrents of lasers is simply fun. I just wish the game actually gave me the knowledge to know what I was doing, rather than keeping the rules hidden and obscured until I had paid enough deaths to manually learn how things worked.

      If there *is* a manual or something that I missed, then ignore all of this! (And, perhaps, replace it with a simple recommendation to make that manual more obvious). And it might be that this issue will be solved in time once some enterprising fan works up a wiki and details out the actual rules of the game. But for now, my overall review is that this is a game that feels like it has a ton of promise, but that I regret buying in a stage where it feels like it is either unfinished, or intentionally designed to frustrate the player.

  17. Diego says:

    Well, in the Steam forum there was a message in caps saying “BUGS GO ON TECHNICAL SUBFORUM” or something along those lines. I’m not sure what else you were supposed to do.

    1. WWWebb says:

      Actually, when I first went looking to report a bug, Steam directed me to the developer’s website. That wasn’t terribly helpful since Pyrodactyl doesn’t have forums.

  18. WWWebb says:

    Weird bug report: I was playing Good Robot tonight when an episode of Diecast started playing in the background. At first I thought it was a secret live-stream, but instead, it was even worse than last week’s episode because NO ONE was there.

  19. Volatar says:

    I am glad to have an official place to put my feedback and bug reports. It was weird to have Pyrodactyl Games follow me on Twitter just so I could DM a couple things.

  20. Rich says:

    have at you

    (dated) An exclamation indicating that one is about to strike the person addressed, typically with a sword or other hand-held weapon.

    1. Shamus says:

      I think of it as the “Come at me bro” of Shakespearean times.

      1. Unbeliever says:

        People say “Come at me bro” now?

  21. Cragfire says:

    After you’ve gotten through a few bug fixing cycles. How about a blog post rounding up the most interesting ones?

  22. So if i understand you correctly this is where i should post that i have this strange thing happening when i do the stuff at the place?

    :P

  23. Hermocrates says:

    When I played GR on launch day, I did notice a few bugs, but saw them all already posted to the Steam forums. Then I played it again last night (time is woefully absent in the last few weeks of the semester), and saw they were all already fixed!

    So I just wanna give a give a shout-out to the dev team for being so quick on the draw!

  24. The Seed Bismuth says:

    you know I don’t get the complaints when I played it with max shields val:10000 , max damage val:2560 , max fireRate val:0.09 and max speed val:12. I had a perfectly good time playing the modified base game.

    Snark aside I do not actually like Shoot’em Ups and this one was no different (not any worse but not any better than others I played) but I needed to give you guys something since I do not have the money to support you guys on patreon. Now that I’m good superman in this game it is enjoyable , proving that I would enjoy more of these games if I was ridiculous-overpowered got good in them as well. Here is to your continued successes in your present and future projects!

    P.S. will Kai Leng be the next Mass Effect post? please

    1. Richard says:

      I’m assuming Kai Leng will be ignored as much as possible until the idiotic bossfight, then torn to shreds like his character sheet should have been.

  25. youngstormlord says:

    Thanks for your post, didn’t actually know that Good Robot is available in Steam shop. I just bought it, it is still downloading and I will post to you if I find any bugs. I followed developer posts since the start, it is nice to finally be able to play it.

  26. gyfrmabrd says:

    Needs more Cerberus!

    1. MrGuy says:

      No, no. What it needs is a mechanical voice announcing it’s assuming direct control all the time.

  27. TMC_Sherpa says:

    OK, I have a legit question that isn’t a bug or a snide remark.

    Good Robot feels different when you are moving up and down vs. left and right because of view distance on a widescreen so what are your thoughts on playing in a cube?

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