Spoiler Warning S5E43: Copasheshy

By Shamus Posted Wednesday Jul 27, 2011

Filed under: Spoiler Warning 98 comments

Link (YouTube)

In case you rugrats missed it, Jack & Diane is a song reference. Despite it being a huge hit, I was only vaguely aware of the ditty at the time. I didn’t get into regular pop music all that much. Instead, I remember this station. (Seriously? There’s a Facebook memorial page for a radio station that went off the air two decades ago? Crazy.) While everyone else was listening to John Couger, Madonna, Blondie, and the Police, I was listening to Echo & the Bunnymen, New Order, Depeche Mode, and the Cure. I find it curious that current movies set in the 80’s all treat the latter as the music of the day. In my experience, the former was the actual sound of the 80’s. There were a dozen pop stations around Pittsburgh back then, and only one alternative station. A small station. Which was based in New Kensington, not Pittsburgh. And which went out of business. The soundtrack for Grosse Point Blank is revisionist history in my book.

You realize what this means, don’t you? It means I was a hipster before any of the other Spoiler Warning cast members were even born. Checkmate, babies!

What? Oh, right. New Vegas. Yeah. Fallout and stuff. Sorry.

I liked the part where Josh exploded a man just off the dining room while everyone was eating. And how nobody so much as turned their head to see who died.


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98 thoughts on “Spoiler Warning S5E43: Copasheshy

  1. MichaelG says:

    So I haven’t played this game. Based on the last piece of Spoiler Warning, it’s about searching for things in menus, right?

    1. Daemian Lucifer says:

      And having 2 incinerators next to each other,both in bad shape,and weighing as hell.

      Seriously though,shuffling through menus does seem to be a big chunk of the game.And we old rpg nerds simply love it!

      1. James says:

        Inventory management is like crack only more damaging, its great on hardcore mode cus i find i need to limit myself to only carrying 150 rounds of each ammo type, usually less for MF cells them things are dammed heavy, and use ED-E to carry spare ammo,oh and only having 7 weapons makes this easier cus you dump uneeded ammo in primm for later.

        my weapons are

        Anti-Material Rifle (this thing is soooo op with crit stacking, Sneak Attack Crits kill ALOT of people)
        Bear Trap Fist, ‘cus there’s nothing like punching a guys head off.
        Hunting ShotGun (BAM BAM Dead)
        Plasma Rifle ( secondary rifle just in case )
        Maria ( a hand gun is usefull and its unique)
        Police Pistol (very good magnum with bonus’s to crits)
        Automatic Rifle (in case i need 223DPS you know just in case)

        1. Daemian Lucifer says:

          Only 7?I had 3,and thought that was too much,so I decided to toss one away.

        2. Tse says:

          I use only the 12.7 mil pistol (huge dmg but non-common rounds), the Gobi Campaign scout rifle (for V.A.T.S) and the automatic rifle (for when I run out of 12,7 mil ammo). Oh, and Maria, because it is a holdout weapon.
          P.S. Yeah, when I run out of pistol ammo I use a machine gun, not the other way around. New Vegas can be a funny game sometimes. :)

          1. James says:

            the AntiMat Rifle is soooo crazy it gets i think at full repair 100base dmg with 70ish in guns, and with the age os crit stacking crouch 3 miles away and snipe things in the head build i allways do it kills many baddies

            1. Klay F. says:

              I used to crit stack the Anti-material Rifle until I got to Big MT. where the robo-scorpians laughed at my pathetic DPS. Then I switched to a convenient Plasma Caster and all was well with the world again.

  2. Daemian Lucifer says:

    Is it much farther papa smurf?

    Yeah,it wouldve been so nice if we had a car in this game.A shame.

    And Im glad that me leaving a comment on youtube made you finally link this here.

  3. BeardedDork says:

    I was just contemplating that musical question earlier in the week. For me the soundtrack of the eighties was Motley Crue and the Scorpions. Now that I’m Old the soundtrack of my life is the classic rock of U2, Adam Ant, and Men Without Hats.

  4. Dev Null says:

    I think its not so much _deliberate_ revisionist history, as the fact that quite a lot of Hollywood folks were hipsters too. They put what they remember in their movies.

    Also, quite a lot of the actual music from the 80’s sucked.

    1. Sagretti says:

      A lot of music in any era tends to suck, at least to somebody, and what’s popular isn’t always bad. Even that list of popular music is actually a decent collection of artists, who I can appreciate even if I’m not a huge fan (Madonna, in this case). For some reason, the 80s just has the distinction of having far more of the bad artists remembered than average, though I have a feeling that stems from all the 80s nostalgia programs from the last decade or so. It’s a lot more entertaining to bash Flock of Seagulls than it is to talk about how awesome Bruce Springsteen is for the millionth time.

      1. Alexander The 1st says:

        So if most music sucks for every generation, and Hollywood hipsters put in whatever music they remember, what’ll be the defining soundtrack for the 2010’s?

        Justin Beiber? Rebbecca Black? Nerdcore (Lyrical music sung to old music themes in parody of the 8-bit games we enjoy)? Arcade Fire?

        Also, I don’t know why, but I always assume 80’s music was either classical or jazz. But not classic jazz. I can’t quite for the life of me remember why…

    2. NeilD says:

      I’m thinking it has much, much more to do with the cost of licensing a Depeche Mode song versus a Madonna song.

    3. Peter H. Coffin says:

      As a minor counterpoint to this, it’s not so much plain nostalgia as those same artists were also featured in films contemporaneous with their popularity. Granted they weren’t huge mainstream films, and there was a substantial overlap of cast and crew on many of the films, but…. Valley Girl, Some Kind of Wonderful, Pretty In Pink, The Last American Virgin, Doctor Detroit, Tape Heads, Fear No Evil; all extensively interesting soundtracks in what would be considered “hipster” ways, well before John Cusak started making a career of making music hipster movies.

  5. Mumbles says:

    That’s not fair. When you were my age I was running a college radio station. AKA I was in charge of a station exactly like the hipster one you listened to.

    1. Jakale says:

      Your current age, or any one of the ages you have been and will be?

      1. Mumbles says:

        I was running the station when I was nineteen.

      2. anaphysik says:

        I’m confused too. I assume that she has simply gone mad; source: last episode.

        1. Mumbles says:


          1. Daemian Lucifer says:

            Guys,get the medicine,Mumbles broke again.

        2. Hitch says:

          It’s one of those annoying logic puzzles. “When you’re twice the age your sister was when you were one third of your age now, she will be four times the square root of the age she was when you were born. How old are each of you?”

          (Please note: I just made up stupid stuff. There’s probably not an answer. But if there is, please post it so I can call you a nerd.)

          1. acronix says:

            The prince will be 30 and the princess will be 40!

            What? What do you mean with “you got the wrong riddle”?

          2. Daemian Lucifer says:

            After much equations Ive deduced that the answer is:I have no sister.

          3. Alastair says:

            Assuming x = your age and y = your sister’s age, then the solutions lay along the parabola given by the equation

            81y^2 – 72xy – 144y + 144x + 16x^2 = 0

            There are an infinite number of solutions to this, but most of them make no sense since either your or your sister’s ages are negative.

            Note that 0,0 is a solution (both of you were just born). The solution for the largest valid age for you is 0.8 years, when your sister would be approximately 1.25 years old, whereas the solution for the largest valid age for your sister is approximately 1.77776 years old, when you are just born.

            I knew my degree in math would be useful someday.

          4. krellen says:

            Mumbles just told us how old she is, but only if we can solve the logic puzzle.

            1. Chuck says:

              She said once 19 years ago she was five, so she’s around 24.

              sorry for ruining your math fun.

        3. Alexander The 1st says:

          After I realised what she said in a double take, I thought she meant she was born earlier than Shamus, but after she turned whatever age she was in – what, 2009? – she got sent forward in time to the current age.

    2. Shamus says:

      Forgive an old man his fits of idealized nostalgia.

      1. gebiv says:

        Hey, Mumbles goes all the way back to CDs. That’s old school stuff there.

        1. A Viewer says:

          I’m in my mid-20s, but I still remember cassette tapes (and I’ve seen and held actual 8-track cartridges when I was younger too!).

          1. evileeyore says:

            I still have cassettes and vinyls. I used to have an 8-track player and tapes for it, but they ceased to exist when cd’s changed the past and erased them from history.

            1. ccesarano says:

              I remember being a 9 or 10 year old kid holding a portable “boom box” to my TV at max volume so I could record music from Donkey Kong Country 2 and Mega Man X off the TV.

              I’m not sure what that says about me, but it seemed relevant somehow.

  6. Vect says:

    Thing about Karl is that he’s good enough at putting his judgmental nature in private. It’s not like he goes “Greetings stupid savages. Join Caesar’s Legion or die!”

    Regis is hinted at being a pretty smart dude overall. He sleeps with a bunch of books and magazines. I do like Jack and how chill he is (don’t know where he got “copasheshy”) and all “:( Aww, that’s not good for Karma, man”. I also like Papa Khan in how even though he’s super-pissed at the NCR, he’s willing to actually listen when his own people tell him “The Legion sucks”. Overall I don’t mind the Khans too much and willing to just get them to leave.

    1. Kelly says:

      Yeah the Great Khans are pretty reasonable overall actually, which is surprising since normally the Khans are just walking piles of loot and EXP, just WAITING for some bitch in combat/power armor to walk in with a combat shotgun/pulse pistol and unleash unholy murder.

      I like to kill the wimpy poetry guy though. Of course, only AFTER I do his quest and get the exp.

      1. James says:

        i never paied the Khans much notice after boulder city, for me they where a plot point so that elevated them above that of Powder Gangers and Fiends, who I on my own can destroy, but the might NCR arm faffs about and screws up alot in removing them. the funniest thing though is the “Thugs” in freeside who randomly spawn to attack you, and who i never notice until veronica has punched there heads off.

        1. Chuck says:

          I hated those guys. They had lousy loot.

  7. ccesarano says:

    Odd, just this morning I was thinking about how people will label certain bands or artists as a “voice of the generation”. In particular, I got into an argument with my brother that Britney Spears was most certainly not the voice of my generation while Kurt Cobain and Nirvana was the voice of his (apparently six years age difference is enough to separate generations these days).

    I think, in truth, music is the worst thing to apply as “voice of a generation”. Feel? Aesthetic? Maybe so. But not voice. Music is too simple a form. Besides, when I was in high school I was listening to European metal about The Silmarillion and some Italian dudes’ D&D campaign.

    However, applying a certain sound to a decade works well. The seventies, I think, are going to be one of the most eclectic, coupled with the 80’s. I mean, 80’s saw the birth of Rap, heavy metal split between the Iron Maiden and Led Zepplin styles, to the Megadeth and Metallica, to the Cannibal Corpse and Slayer, and then to the glam metal like Ratt and Poison and Quiet Riot, so on and so forth. Punk Rock exploded as a genre and pop was polluted with bands like Genesis as well as David Bowie and other bands that no one remembers because they were pop (I guess Flock of Seagulls counts?)

    Then in the 90’s every metal band was trying to recreate The Black Album with a bit of Slayer, conventional rock died and gave birth to Grunge, pop and rap became more homogenous and punk rock became Green Day. Then came the year 2000, and people swear to me that the same five artists I hear on the radio are actually dozens to hundreds of different bands or musicians. And here I thought every sitcom since Scrubs just hired the same five-person studio band to just record a couple acoustic tracks for the weekly episode wrap-up.

    1. Daemian Lucifer says:

      But everyone knows that kanye west is the voice of gay fish everywhere.

    2. Falcon says:

      So you’re another Blind Guardian fan, I’m a happy nerd right now. The problem with music as iconic of a generation, it’s too diverse. I’m hoping that the current voice of our generation will actually be remembered as the democratization of bands (e.g. Internet allows us to connect with music differently, so the old studio model dies a horrible death, no more mega groups, more diversity).

      Then again my music is so hipster, most hipster music is too mainstream.

      1. burningdragoon says:

        Hurray Blind Guardian!

      2. ccesarano says:

        I love how I can say “album based off of The Silmarillion” and people instantly know it is Blind Guardian.

        It’s a shame, though, because in terms of music in general it’s hard to find a band like them. Each album has a different sound to it, and each song is good. At least, since Somewhere Far Beyond. Their first three albums were…well, they had a couple tracks that sound great live (Valhalla: the perfect heavy metal concert song).

        Plus, And Then There Was Silence continues to be one of the most epic songs I’ve ever heard, and you don’t even realize it is 14 minutes long as you listen to it.

        But most bands cannot achieve that level of excellence, be they power metal or other genre, and it is a shame.

        The CD’s most often in my changer tend to be Blind Guardian’s Nightfall in Middle-Earth, Night at the Opera, Twist in the Myth and At the Edge of Time. They are, however, closely followed by Avantasia’s The Scarecrow and The Wicked Symphony, Star One’s Victims of a Modern Age (hey, wanna hear some of the worst lyrics ever?), Nocturnal Rites’ Grand Illusion and Mercenary’s 11 Dreams and Hours That Remain.

        Otherwise, it’s six mix CD’s of just random bands. I’ve reached the point where I rarely purchase albums, though Treat and Russell Allan/Jorne Lande are on my “to buy” list.

  8. Kelly says:

    Yes, because of all the things that are nonsense about Fallout science, the insane government remnant living on a massive oil rig accidentally giving intelligence to apex predators is obviously where the line needs to be drawn.

    Also the furry Deathclaws are from Tactics, not 2.

    1. Grudgeal says:

      They made for lousy squad-members too. In both senses of the word.

      1. Alphadrop says:

        Not quite true, a fuzzy deathclaw specced in sneak and unarmed could stealth one shot an entire map.
        Shame there were not pre war vets to loot for decent de lousing shampoo.

  9. X2-Eliah says:

    The dungeons… Oblivion had pretty good dungeons – several decent sets, and the actual arrangement of the modules was fairly unique and varied, imo. Especially for its age. No, if you want to make a point about repetitive, samey dungeons, you either drop the Dragon Age 2 name, or remain silent.

    On world navigation – yeah, basically New Vegas is just plain awful to walk through. Hard invisible walls on mountains, soft walls through mob gating, and just plain horrible level geometry (take any interior, or – heck – this canyon place itself, a pain to get to and a pain to walk through.

    But hey, in the end, it’s all kopasheshy. Don’t you love it when kopasheshy is all up in the kopasheshy? You should get down with some kopasheshy, man.

    EDIT: about the music stuff… Not that I care all that much, but frankly in 50/60 year’s time, when some damn youngsters will get on my space-lawn and tell me that crud like Lil’ Wayne, Meminem and Kanye were the voice of my generation, I’ll very very likely reach for that future-shotgun and start yelling at the dang whippersnapers at the top of my crockety (space-)voice.

    1. Chuck says:

      Rat Pack forever!

      Now I feel old… Can you feel old at 22?

      1. acronix says:

        Only if you are surrounded by people whose age is 18 or less.

        1. Chuck says:

          So when I’m working on my PhD, then. Good to know.

    2. Raygereio says:

      Oblivion’s dungeons are repetitive mainly because of the tileset and architecture style they reused constantly. So they look the same, while actually being different. It does actually make some sense within the setting, but it does get noticable after a while.

      DA2’s dungeons aren’t repetitive or samey; they’re fricking ME1 prefab dungeons. Simple copy-past jobs.

  10. RTBones says:

    Shamus, I’m with you on the music. Good stuff. How many of your readers (including our dearest Mumbles), I do wonder, know who Nina Blackwood, Mark Goodman, Alan Hunter and Martha Quinn are, or who the Buggles were, or why they are important, or where they came from, or where they went.

    For that matter, I wonder how many know or remember that MTV used to actually broadcast, you know, _music_?

    Great. Now I have THAT TUNE stuck in my head. If you understood any of the above, you’ll know the song I’m talking about.

    1. Jeff #3 says:

      *kills the radio star*

      1. Alexander The 1st says:

        This nailed it into my head.

        The worse part is, I only remember half the chorus. Which is like remembering all the inventory management of Fallout: New Vegas and none of the plot.

  11. JPH says:

    Huh. I think I was the one that caused that discussion about New Vegas versus Fallout 3.

    I’m gonna write a post about why I think Fallout 3 is better, hopefully soon, but you guys were right on the money when you brought up the dungeons and traveling.

    1. acronix says:

      I must admit I found myself wanting to replay Fallout 3 more than New Vegas (please don`t hit me, Krellen!). I think the reason for that is that Fallout 3`s world looks better and is easier to travel through. Also, the fact that every single character is a despisable piece of filth makes wrecking everything more enjoyable.

      Or maybe it`s just that the Warhammer 40k armor mod is only available for Fallout 3.

      1. krellen says:

        I don’t hit. I glower disapprovingly. Sometimes I use sharp words.

      1. Daemian Lucifer says:

        Very well,Ill bite.Ill tell you why those same reason create the actual opposite conclusion for me:
        The pacing.I like pacing most of the time.Hell,Ive replayed all the half lives recently(damn you spoiler warning!),and quite enjoyed it,including the slooooow beginnings.However,that beginning in the vault simply felt…stupid.It was nice the first time,to see the birth,the growth,the bully,etc.But later,when I knew that this prick would leave me,that this idiot is the classical bully stereotype,I simply couldnt endure it.And that was replaying after just reaching the first town.

        New vegas,on the other hand,gave me complete freedom to skip the tutorial and go wherever I want.It just gave me more elbow room.Yet I still want to do the tutorial merely for the rewards,even though its not necessary.

        I dont know,its weird.When put on rigid rails like in half life,I dont complain at all.Yet when put in a sandbox of fallout,I complain a lot when I just spot a rail.

        Plus,while frustrating,Ive enjoyed the beginning of fallout 1:Thrust into unknown,having to discover everything.

        So thats why its a plus for me.

        The dungeons and tredding through the wastes.I personally never liked dungeons that much.Which is probably why Ive played diablos exactly once each,no matter how good I think they are.I prefer the overworld sprinkled with a few buildings,and thats exactly what new vegas provides.

        Furthermore,going through the desert,alone,with no living soul for miles,really makes it look like I am in a post apocalyptic world.Even more so than seeing the ruined monuments and buildings.Just all that vast emptiness all around you.

        Also,when you finally do stumble on a human settlement,you see farms,you see cattle,you see the sources of water.It just seems more real,and more satisfying to finally reach civilization,no matter how pathetic it is.

        Would having a car improve this experience?Definitely.But it still is quite good the way it is now.

        Story,well thats been covered numerous times now,so I wont beat that horse any more.

        Leveling.Hitting the level in fallout 3 and immediately getting the perk felt really cheap to me.Theyve lost their value with that.New vegas does this slightly better,though at times I still find that I have no valuable perks to pick from,while in 1 and 2 I always knew what I am building to.But still,new vegas does it better than 3.

        And finally,Ive played 3 exactly twice.First time Ive managed to go to megaton,and speak with the people,second time Ive merely exited the vault.I simply could force myself to go through it.After watching spoiler warning,Im really glad that I didnt.New vegas,Ive finished,and am eagerly awaiting for the last dlc to come out to finish it a few more times as well.

        Tldr:Its all very subjective,and I have a weird taste.And I know this,because Ive enjoyed playing I wanna be the guy for months,before finally stopping on the fourth boss.I just enjoy different elements than you.

        1. For the longest time I wanted to like New Vegas more than 3, but I kept feeling like the world was inferior, and writing aside, it just didn’t stack up.

          After playing Vegas through several more times though, I got a feeling I never did with 3 – I felt like I understood the world – like I knew where things were and why, the coherence of the world eventually won out over the strangeness of 3’s.

          Finding all the hidden bits of writing, the quests, the companions, all grew on me once I began to understand how they fit together.

          Later I had the opportunity to play them together using the Requiem for the Capital Wasteland mod, and I couldn’t go back. The main quest felt tedious and linear, my actions no longer felt like they had consequences, I still had no idea where anything was from ground level because it was rocky and arbitrary, and I never had to explore anywhere for anything good other than say, oasis. Fighting mutants and nameless raiders was a distraction, and carried no weight, and none of the monsters really posed a threat the way Cazadors and Mojave deathclaws did.

          In the end I realized I was only missing a couple of things – random encounters and inventive set piece design. I really love the layout of megaton – it’s vertical and full of things to jump on and off, and unique areas like Oasis were REALLY unique in such a bombed out wasteland.

          Similarly, Bethesda has a great philosophy of always having something good wherever you go, particularly within dungeons. It’s not so much a problem now that I know where the interesting dungeons are in New Vegas, but Bethesda REALLY put a lot of effort into just random fun stuff to find. The Grisly Diner, the coin op bomb shelters – it may not have made much sense, but it was indispensable in the Capital Wasteland because everything else was just so damn dreary.

          Also I liked the Fallout 3 intro more than being shot in the head, I just wish it had some sort of randomness to it to keep things interesting. In New Vegas I never felt personally motivated to kill Benny because it happened in a cutscene, I didn’t feel like I lost anything so revenge wasn’t a huge priority.

          If they had me walking around at level 20 for a while, then shot me and the brain damage put me back at square one I might have felt something, but as it was, it felt like a really weak plot hook.

    2. Eric says:

      Vaults in Fallout 3 were a major sore spot for me, but I guess it depends on what you enjoy about Fallout: the consistency of the lore and universe, the tone and seriousness of it, or the lulzy happy-go-lucky bullshit non-humour that characterises Bethesda games. That was the number one problem with Fallout 3, of course, but the Vaults were an encapsulation of that silly, unfocused, for-the-lulz attitude that went throughout all of Fallout 3.

      I know the Vaults were experiments according to Fallout 2, but some of the ones in Fallout 3 came across a lot less like interesting studies into human behaviour, and a lot more like “hey bro, what if, like, everyone was on drugs?” I mean, really. LSD pumped into the air (wouldn’t that have gone into ruin after like, a day)? A bunch of clones all named Gary (never mind the fact that they’re apparently still alive after 200 years)? Pumping subliminal commands through the speakers (why did they need musicians for that anyway)? Virtual reality simulators (they didn’t even have that technology during the Great War, until Bethesda retconned it in their usual “sledgehammer to the brain” fashion)? FEV experiments (again with the FEV, a classified substance which at the time didn’t even exist beyond the walls of WestTek)? Of all the Vaults, the only one that makes sense is Vault 101, as it’s the only one that’s a real social experiment – the oppressive, dictatorial Overseer.

      And no, in an RPG, I don’t think “but, it’s like, cool, man” is a solid defense, especially when you’re dealing with a game with as established a universe as Fallout. Then again, I guess it’s okay to systemically destroy the entire canon of a beloved videogame series simply because your target market won’t know the difference, right?

      1. krellen says:

        Vault 101 wasn’t supposed to be a dictatorship experiment. It was a regular control vault, but the dwellers sealed themselves back up after their explorations ended up with many of them dead.

      2. JPH says:

        Actually, the difference is whether you prefer the consistency of the lore and universe, or fun and engaging gameplay.

        I’m not a drooling imbecile, though you seem to be convinced that I am. I’ve got nothing against consistency of lore and all that, and I don’t much care for Bethesda’s attempts at humor. But a cohesive world means nothing to me if the gameplay itself isn’t entertaining.

        I’m aware that Fallout 3 broke away from the original Fallout canon. It’s not that I don’t know the difference. It’s that I don’t care. I played Fallout 1 and I thought it was absolutely dreadful, so Bethesda can go as far from the source material as they want as far as I’m concerned.

        1. Eric says:

          Sorry, I actually didn’t mean to personally direct that post to you; I initially started responding, then put the reply in a new comment, but it stuck it on the back of yours instead. I didn’t mean to imply anything about anyone personally.

          My point, however, is that I don’t think it’s worth sacrificing canon and the believability of a game’s universe for something like “fun.” Yes, I like fun games, but my enjoyment of a game does not hinge on it having dumb pop-culture references, crazy what-if scenarios, etc. I like good mechanics, good atmosphere, good characters and writing. That can include silliness and jokes from time to time, but I’m not sure Fallout is the best place for that, and Bethesda is definitely not the best developer to attempt that sort of thing.

          According to your blog, you’re 19, so I’m going to assume you’re a few years too old to have played Fallout when it came out… and it’s perfectly understandable that these days it’d feel dated and kind of broken in some ways; even at the time of its release it had problems too, but compared to other CRPGs of its time it was pretty much phenomenal as well. I guess not caring about the original Fallout makes sense for a person who didn’t necessarily grow up with the game (and sorry if I’m making too many assumptions), but with respect, I think it’s kind of callous to just say you don’t give a shit about how much Bethesda changes. See what happened with the recent Star Trek film: it was pretty, it was flashy, it was fun, but it was not at all Star Trek in terms of tone, pacing, acting, direction, etc. As a person who doesn’t really care about Star Trek, I’d feel awkward telling old Trek fans to “get with the times,” even if I genuinely believed the new Trek was better.

          You’re also presenting a false dichotomy – just as gameplay and story aren’t mutually exclusive, neither are fun and adherence to canon. Fun is a highly subjective matter, so perhaps in the case of Fallout you don’t find what’s available enjoyable unless it’s sprinkled with lulz, but it’s not at all correct to suggest that one can’t be had at the same time as the other. And, well, if you didn’t like Fallout 1, but enjoy Fallout 3 because it dispensed with the self-seriousness, maybe it’s worth asking yourself: did Bethesda really make a better game, and the right decision, or did they take a game that was never intended for me, and radically change it in order to make it palatable for a completely different group of people who had no prior interest in Fallout anyway?

          1. JPH says:

            I didn’t like Fallout 3 because it dispensed the seriousness. I don’t know how many times I have to reiterate that I thought the dialogue of Fallout 3 was absolute shit, just like you do. The story was stupid. I know. I enjoyed it because I ignored all that and focused on the gameplay. And gameplay-wise, I think Fallout 3 was much better than New Vegas. Better level design, less fucking insidious invisible walls, more interesting environments (in my opinion anyway), etc.

            Maybe you forgot, but I’m the person who wrote that scathing new-retro-review of Fallout 1 awhile back that caused Shamus to link to my blog. I openly admitted that I’d never played the game before, and playing it this year I thought the interface, the combat, and just everything about the gameplay was utterly horrid.

            Maybe there was a good story underneath all that, but I just couldn’t get to it. It’s not because it “wasn’t sprinkled with lulz,” it’s because the gameplay itself was atrocious. Making Vault 15 full of dudes named Gary wouldn’t have fixed that.

            And I’m not telling you to “get with the times.” But after hearing virtually everyone on this site drone on and on about how Fallout 3 is the worst game ever and New Vegas is the best game ever, I thought I’d present a bit of a counter-point.

            1. Daemian Lucifer says:

              If I got this correctly,Eric is actually saying “Did this game needed to be called fallout 3”.If it was called post-apocalyptic oblivion,would it be any different?Is it ok to take an established franchise and keep only its names just so you could milk a few more bucks from the fans instead of marketing your game that has nothing to do with the said franchise as a new and original piece?Granted,fallout 3 wasnt as bad in doing this as some other games I wont mention,but still it was bad.

              1. JPH says:

                That doesn’t mean it’s a bad game, though. That’s not failed game design; that’s failed marketing.

  12. Slothful says:

    Interesting to hear about things from the 80s that haven’t been repeated over and over again ad infinitum. That decade will never die off properly.

  13. Hitch says:

    Okay, since this is the music blog now.

    I’ve always been regarded as having weird (or if you’re being kind, eclectic) music tastes. I like what I like and dislike what I don’t like because of my own tastes and not that it fits and specific genre. Just because I like X doesn’t mean I also like X’ or X.2 because they’re the same genre, or dislike Y because it’s in an “opposing” style. (Music is what divided people before there were game consoles to be fanboys of.) So liked stuff on both sides of Shamus’ example (but not all of either side).

    The one thing that bothers me though is “alternative.” Not the genre, but the label. It worked fine for a while, but now someone can unironically claim that, “Alternative music is one of the most popular genres out there.” Which makes me want to scream, “If that’s so, what exactly is it an alternative to?

    1. Daemian Lucifer says:

      Unpopular genres,of course.

    2. Gravebound says:

      I’ve always thought of the label as: an “alternative” to listen-able music. :)

    3. Eric says:

      It’s pre-hipster hipster. Which I think technically makes it the “true” hipster music. Or something. God dammit, now my brain hurts.

  14. Marlowe says:

    Green sky in evening
    Cuftbert’s leaving.

    1. Chuck says:

      Green sky in evening
      Death has claimed the many hordes
      A desert has peace.

    2. Hitch says:

      Perfect opportunity for revenge and none of them even attempted it. “I don’t see anything.” “There are no green clouds, Josh.” “You’re seeing things.” “Really? None of you guys see this?” “There’s nothing there, Josh.” “I think it’s the strain of those incinerators.” “Heh heh. Oh man, you blew it. We had him going.”

  15. Grudgeal says:

    That Great Khan was doing it all wrong. It’s just a jump to the *left*, not the right.

  16. rrgg says:

    So what’s the deal with the Khans, do they just have a poor grasp of history like Caesar or did Mongols migrate to America at some point?

    1. Marlowe says:

      They claim descent from the great Chaka Khan.

      1. Chuck says:

        Ow, my eyes.

        The original Khans are from the same vault as the NCR founders, so presumably there was some historical info in their vault, if some of them could form a new Republic.

        The Great Khans, as mentioned earlier, are survivors of the original khans that moved east to avoid the NCR, which has had success in-eventually- reducing large organized raiders. Actually I think they just finished off what the Vault Dweller and Chosen One started.

        1. Znaps says:

          I always figured it was a riff on the Mongols motorcycle club.

  17. Pete says:

    So am I the only one who noticed the eating of HUMAN FLESH at 15:30? For some unexplainable reason I think this might be interesting to someone.

    1. anaphysik says:

      That was bizarre. Josh didn’t even seem to notice. Cuftbert just rattles his inventory above his mouth and noms whatever comes out, I suppose.

      (And Mumbles, a point: were you serious when you balked at Reginald Cuftbert making a Speech check? Because his Speech is at 85; it’s his highest skill. Seriously, Josh uses Speech all the time.)

      1. Mumbles says:

        I usually don’t pay attention to his points unless he just finished failing at using an energy weapon. I just assume that reginald acts like josh therefore has low speech skills.

  18. CalDazar says:

    The interesting thing is that if you had talked to Karl again he would have talked about how he wanted to attack you right there for killing Caesar. That’s what happened for me.

    I prefer Fallout 3’s atmosphere and location to New Vegas. I liked how the lack of resources had prevented any real power from establishing. Even if it was at times and in places a bit silly, or a lot, fuck little lamplight. I really miss swords and assault rifles of the chinese variety though. New Vegas teases you with guns from FO3 which just makes it worse.

    I think you’re right about getting around being easer. In FO3 the danger was getting distracted and picking up too much loot. In NV there’s that, and things that will kill me, and invisible walls and a million other annoying issues.

  19. Xanyr says:

    What’s this “dark secret of animal crossing” thing you guys were talking about?

      1. Bubble181 says:

        Thats….huh. Now I wonder what the actual game is like.

  20. Even says:

    The free exploration. That’s the only thing I missed from Fallout 3. I like to compare them separately as sandbox games and as RPGs. As the former, Fallout 3 is a lot more fun and works a lot better. As the latter, New Vegas is just so much better. It’s the main reason why I prefer NV over FO3.

    1. Chuck says:

      I preferred exploring New Vegas to Fallout 3, but that’s most likely because I don’t like the sewers, due to a combination of disliking the dark and disliking creepy zombie creatures.

  21. Steve C says:

    The less popular music better reflects a time period because it was only commonly played in that time period. The more popular the music the more it was played outside of the time frame. Plus the “2nd tier” popular music ends up being cheaper to license.

  22. Cerapa says:


    EDIT: On second thought, no. I want to troll mumbles. There is absolutely nothing that might make her happy in this episode, no, no.

  23. Vipermagi says:

    Pause the video at 4:22. I didn’t know the Legion gave such names to people.

    1. Vect says:

      Then again, remember that Graham never even bothered to change his own name, mostly because he couldn’t care less about Edward’s hard-on for Roman culture.

  24. Annikai says:

    Pshaw being born is too mainstream. I was cloned.

    1. Daemian Lucifer says:

      Everybody does that nowadays.I wished myself into existence.

      1. krellen says:

        I sprung fully-grown from my father’s head. Y’know, the old-fashioned way.

        1. Wesley Noble says:

          A group of monks had to sacrifice themselves using the sacrificial blade to bring me into this world. Just like my grand-pappy

          1. Irridium says:

            I came into this world because I saw where I was not, and said “no, this will not do”, and made myself appear.

  25. susie day says:

    thanks for your blog shamus!

  26. Double A says:

    I have only heard of two of those artists (Madonna and the Cure).

    You were an old hipster before the rest of the cast was even born.

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