Star trek

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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Star trek

Post by Daemian Lucifer » Sat May 26, 2018 8:56 pm

The resistance is....an episode.Its really bland.But,there are few bad things about it that stand out.

First,metaphasic shields.Ok,technobable itself is not bad.It can be funny at times(subspace vacuole),but still wont hurt the episode.However,when a piece of technobable is invented to do one specific thing,and is fairly distinct,you cant just go around and throw it as an aside sometimes later.Metaphasic shields were a very specific key plot point in a couple of tng episodes,and they are specifically designed to protects stuff from the stars.Yet here,in the delta quadrant,a random planet in the ass of nowhere,is just randomly using them to guard a random prison?. . . Just no.

Second,thats one very poorly performed crazy person.And even worse performed dictator.

Third,even though that was one pretty uninspired makeup for the extra terrestrials,it was still rather prominent and very distinctive.So how come a guard was fooled by janeway simply wearing a sexy dress,when hw knows specifically that they are searching for an alien woman?And thats on top of how silly the complete break into the prison plot was.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Star trek

Post by Daemian Lucifer » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:40 pm

Prototype is finally another tores episode.Yes!And then,prime directive.Well fuck.And to make it worse,in this one instance it turns out that janeway was correct.But thats the equivalent of saying "In some cases a person with a gunshot wound is a serial killer,and saving their life might mean they will go on and kill someone.So its best to never try and treat anyone with a gunshot wound,because unfortunately death is a natural conclusion of a life".Well,I have not recently mentioned how much I hate what the prime directive has morphed into,so there it is.

Otherwise its an ok episode.Other than the lame robot costumes.

Also,....the robot has a completely unknown power system,and its not compatible with the power system of voyager.Yet with just stabbing it with a cable and fiddling with a control panel,they managed to provide him with some temporary juice.However,linking the holodeck to the main power when the main power was critical but the holodeck was working fine,that was impossible!Its not a slight against this episode though,but against that stupid piece of dialogue when they said how the holodeck was incompatible with the rest of the ship.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Star trek

Post by Daemian Lucifer » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:50 pm

Alliances is almost a good episode,but it has one enormous insurmountable flaw:The kazon are terrible.In everything.In conception,in presentation,in acting,they are just bad all around.I mean just look at what they think of as prison.It was laughable at first,but this time it was just so pathetic and sad.How did anyone think that these pakled rejects would be a threat to anyone?Even janeways stubbornness and flip flopping can be excused because they are pointed against the kazon.
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John

Re: Star trek

Post by John » Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:56 pm

I only watched enough Voyager to catch a couple of early Kazon episodes (including the pilot) and I always found them underwhelming. The thing that puzzles me to this day, however, is how they were able to pursue Voyager as long as they did. If I remember correctly, one of the few notable aspects of Kazon society is that it was heavily factionalized. Thus, even if Kazon space is so big that it took Voyager years of warp-speed travel to cross it then surely they should have at least passed out of the space of the faction with whom they had all the trouble in fairly short order. What I want to know is what did the pursuing faction (the one Seska hooked up with, whatever it may have been called) have to do to get transit rights from those other Kazon?
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Star trek

Post by Daemian Lucifer » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:32 pm

Sadly,thats the problem of the entire trek.They never consider distances,except for when the plot dictates that in the episode,distance should matter.Its the least of the problems with kazon though.

Anyway,threshold.I have to tackle this one moment by moment.Because while I dont think that its the worst episode of voyager*,it sure is the stupidest one(so far).

So ok,they are simulating a thing.An ok teaser.Then they go to neelix and he is being an asshole(nor surprise there).And then they tell him that they are trying to reach infinite velocity.....Ummm,okkk...Then he technobables at them,and they technobable at him,and they go back to simulating doing the impossible........Then they make a flight plan for occupying every point in the universe.............

Image

Then they proceed with tom occupying every point in the universe,and poor dumb harry is surprised that they lost him from sensors.So they increase sensors to maximum,and are still surprised that they cant find him.When he could be anywhere in the universe.And in the next scene they say precisely this.

And then tom comes back,and the doctor is being amazing for a while.

More of neelix being an asshole(nor surprise there),and then paris is doing an oscar worthy death scene.And then he resurrects.An aside:Why are they going to do the autopsy in the morning?Other than to give tom enough time to come back to life,I mean.But whatever,thats just more stupid.

And then:
.
.
.
tom paris becomes a time lord.And I lose my shit and laugh out loud and come here to pour my amazement onto the paper,so to speak.This is both the stupidest and the funniest thing Ive seen in quite a while.I mean its a rather infamous episode,and I know the broad strokes of whats going to happen in advanced,but I still cant help being amazed at what Im seeing.Its like the room,but with some decent acting.

Ok,I can continue watching the episode now.

And then that guy sends info to the kazon because.....I guess there has to be at least one idiot on the ship at all times.

Some more great acting from paris.Though I cant help but laugh at his delusions of grandeur** while looking like that.And whose idea was for him to cough out his tongue?Because that.....thats just amazing.....and the look he gives when he does it,its perfect.And then he talks....without his tongue.......what the hell were they smoking when they thought that that would sound even remotely good?

"The present,the past,theyre both in the future.The future is in the past"

Image

"I believe the answer lies in forcing his dna to revert to its original coding.Once that occurs,his body should return to its former state."

. . . . . . . Um,sure....whatever

"We cant get power to the internal sensors" followed by "phaser discharge on deck six"...Not the biggest contradiction in this episode,but it still is funny.

And there it is,the dumbest lines of the episode,the "its just natural evolution" shtick.

"The female,obviously". . . did....did tuvok just crack a joke?Because it sure was funny.

Chakotays expression is pretty much what my expression was while watching those three salamanders going into the lake.Just pure "what the fuck?"

And then....everything is back to normal.So,now they have a way to get back home in a blink of an eye,and it only has a single side effect that can easily be rectified.And it will never be brought up again.

Image

And then.....janeway......makes a joke?....I think....

And some more good acting from tom.Yeah,I can see why you like this one Andrew.I cant say that it does not have its charm,and some good things about it.

Also.....damn,I keep coming back to this over and over.But this episode feels like it was the perfect prologue for discovery.Why the hell was that show not a sequel to voyager?

*I dont think anything trek ever did can be worse than the accidental pedophilia thing in elogium.
**And yes,I know that the script wants to peddle this bullshit of him actually becoming a superior being,but I dont buy it.
Steve C

Re: Star trek

Post by Steve C » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:15 pm

John wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:56 pm
I only watched enough Voyager to catch a couple of early Kazon episodes (including the pilot) and I always found them underwhelming. The thing that puzzles me to this day, however, is how they were able to pursue Voyager as long as they did. If I remember correctly, one of the few notable aspects of Kazon society is that it was heavily factionalized. Thus, even if Kazon space is so big that it took Voyager years of warp-speed travel to cross it then surely they should have at least passed out of the space of the faction with whom they had all the trouble in fairly short order. What I want to know is what did the pursuing faction (the one Seska hooked up with, whatever it may have been called) have to do to get transit rights from those other Kazon?
That always bothered me too. The answer to your question doesn't matter though. There's no answer that can satisfy. It is a plot hole.

The root problem is that Voyager is going at sustained maximum speed in a single direction. Sure there are detours but they are minor. If a detour is not minor it is a plot point. Any individual who can catch up to Voyager has to be faster than Voyager. It is fine when it is something like The Borg. The Borg is both faster and not individuals. When it is something like Vidiians it is also fine because it is a race and specific individuals don't repeatedly show up. The Kazon though. It just doesn't work and cannot work. Even Seska leaving and coming back doesn't work. Once Seska left she should not have been able to catch back up. Same with almost everyone else they ever meet in the show.
So,now they have a way to get back home in a blink of an eye,and it only has a single side effect that can easily be rectified.And it will never be brought up again.
M'kay. That is one way of looking at it. If there was a vote on getting home now but the side effect being part of an animal rape orgy that could take place anywhere in the universe afterwards... I'd go with a hard no. Longer slow way thanks.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Star trek

Post by Daemian Lucifer » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:49 am

Steve C wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:15 pm
So,now they have a way to get back home in a blink of an eye,and it only has a single side effect that can easily be rectified.And it will never be brought up again.
M'kay. That is one way of looking at it. If there was a vote on getting home now but the side effect being part of an animal rape orgy that could take place anywhere in the universe afterwards... I'd go with a hard no. Longer slow way thanks.
Even ignoring that*,one of the side effects of their experiment was that they were able to stabilize the shuttle for warp >9.9,when voyager was in danger of breaking up at those speeds.And this too will never be brought up again,despite the fact that this could cut their travel time down 10 fold,or more.

*Which is a bit hard,seeing how the doctors treatment couldve been applied at any time after the flight once it was refined.So even before the very first visible mutations.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Star trek

Post by Daemian Lucifer » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:30 pm

Meld.The episode where Brad Dourif is being accused of being Brad Dourif in a story about murder.Shockingly,he is guilty.

"Then you will not rest",damn,tuvok is on a roll!Two jokes in two episodes.Interesting.

And then tuvok is so puzzled by Brad Dourif that he decides to mind meld with a violent betazoid psychopath.Most illogical.Spock would not approve.

But that aside,it really is an interesting story.Vulcans almost strive towards being psychopaths,never feeling any emotions.The only thing that differentiates them is that they have respect for life and sapience.And here we have a vulcan opposed to someone who does not just suppress their emotions,but does not have them at all.I get why such a thing would fascinate a vulcan.And if this were any other trek,such a thing should definitely be worthy of exploration.But here,centuries away from home,its just the wrong setting for this.

The other thing of note in this episode is poor dumb harry being dumb and getting poorer by the minute.All the while paris is being a charming hustler.That,coupled with a 10 minute long* scene of tuvok killing neelix,this is the best voyager episode Ive seen so far.

But hold on...They can suppress someones telepathy,but they cant cure psychopathy?Or at least suppress violent urges?Thats some very weird technology they have in the future.

*Its 10 minutes long the way I watched it.
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Andrew

Re: Star trek

Post by Andrew » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:55 am

Oh I quite liked Meld. Tuvok is a pretty bland character as a whole (IMO) so any episode that gives him a bit of characterisation is a good one. Tuvok killing Neelix is most definitely in my top 10 for favourite Voyager scenes ever!

You've got some great episodes coming up. Another B'Elanna episode, then an episode with the Q (which may or may not be good news depending on how you feel about them in general) and then the one episode featuring the Vidiian which is actually a good episode (no surprise it is a Doctor episode).
Daemian Lucifer wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:32 pm
And some more good acting from tom.
Yes, have to focus on the little things sometimes! McNeill is played the part so very, very, well, not just in this episode but in Voyager as a whole. I don't recall seeing him in too many shows after Voyager ended (I believe he is mostly a Director these days) and as much as I loved his Tom Paris I can't help but feel this may be a good thing. He is the perfect blend of camp, cheese, and goof that fits right into the Star Trek universe.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Star trek

Post by Daemian Lucifer » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:16 pm

Andrew wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:55 am
Tuvok is a pretty bland character as a whole
He has his moments.And those are really good.The deadpan jokes he occasionally has are so vulcan that I cant help but laugh.
Andrew wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:55 am
Tuvok killing Neelix is most definitely in my top 10 for favourite Voyager scenes ever!
The exact meaning of it is puzzling me though.Earlier he told janeway that he has taken steps to mitigate the damage from the meld.Does that mean that tuvok unwinds by killing neelix on a holodeck?Or was he just testing to see if he can resist violent urges?Or did he simply try out to see if killing neelix would make him satisfy the urge for murder?Its funny either way you look at it.

Also,I wish that voyager was filmed recently,so that we could get a plethora of youtube reactions to that scene.Because I wonder how many people laughed out loud there.
Steve C

Re: Star trek

Post by Steve C » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:00 pm

Or was he just testing to see if he can resist violent urges?
That one. I'm going off memory here but I'm pretty sure the first thing Tuvok does after that is relieve himself from duty. Because it was a test and he failed.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Star trek

Post by Daemian Lucifer » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:54 pm

He talks to Brad Dourif first,who tells him that he too tried to kill holograms but that did not work.

Incidentally,this is the only time in trek that someone mentions how mind meld is actually a violent invasion and not this innocent thing that vulcans can do.And that someone is a deranged murderer.
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John

Re: Star trek

Post by John » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:29 pm

Daemian Lucifer wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:54 pm
Incidentally,this is the only time in trek that someone mentions how mind meld is actually a violent invasion and not this innocent thing that vulcans can do.
I think that the mind-meld scene in Star Trek VI made it pretty clear that mind-melds can be aggressive and invasive. As I recall, that scene made some people very upset.

Incidentally, my favorite deranged murderer in Trek is the Vulcan from Season 7 of DS9 who killed random people because it was logical. Of course that epsiode was written at least a few years after the one you're talking about.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Star trek

Post by Daemian Lucifer » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:42 pm

Andrew wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:55 am
You've got some great episodes coming up. Another B'Elanna episode,
And its a rogue ai story.I like rogue ai stories even when they are silly.This one was well done.And it has a really strong start with kes and the doctor.

The only thing I did not like is that defector for the kazon.He is an idiot,they are morons,and together they bring nothing good to any episode they appear in.Luckily,it was brief.But there was no neelix,so that more than cancels out the bad.It was an excellent episode.

I also had an interesting observation:We have a cardassian missile that has significant defensive capabilities,both external and internal,and it was capable of lying in order to finish its mission.Once again,cardassian tech proves to be far superior to federation,especially in matters of security.Seriously,how did the federation manage to become one of the super powers when they are so outclassed by both the romulans and the cardassian?
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4th Dimension

Re: Star trek

Post by 4th Dimension » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:44 am

Considering their love os skulduggery it shouldn't be surprising if Cardasians and even Romulans are good at the security.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Star trek

Post by Daemian Lucifer » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:54 pm

4th Dimension wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:44 am
Considering their love os skulduggery it shouldn't be surprising if Cardasians and even Romulans are good at the security.
Its not.Its surprising that the federation can keep up with them when they are so shit at it.
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Andrew

Re: Star trek

Post by Andrew » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:00 am

There's a reason why Star Trek has rarely covered the Romulan War except in passing and as a reference point of "back in my day..." type stories. It's because there is no plausible explanation for how the Federation actually came out on top.

Even with the help of the Vulcans and the Andorians (and a 4th race that I can't remember who) it just isn't logical. I don't think anyone knows how to make it believable because if they could you'd have to believe it'd be done by now being such a key piece of Star Trek lore.

I'd say ditto for the Cardassian War although I believe there is more media on that (novels, comics... etc). And that war was fought ~200 years later (I think) so there are at least some grounds to say that the Federation had significantly advanced (read: Earth had significantly advanced) in tech to at least make that war believable.

I think ultimately there's just no way to tell that story
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JadedDM

Re: Star trek

Post by JadedDM » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:17 am

Andrew wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:00 am
There's a reason why Star Trek has rarely covered the Romulan War except in passing and as a reference point of "back in my day..." type stories. It's because there is no plausible explanation for how the Federation actually came out on top.
Well, and it was completely ridiculous that the Federation would go to war with an enemy they've never seen, that only sent out unmanned ships, and then not only defeat them, but sign a peace treaty with them, all with never once actually meeting one face to face or on a viewscreen.

This is the big problem with Star Trek continuity. All this nonsense cooked up just to justify a plot twist in a single episode of TOS.

The fourth race you can't think of are the Tellarites, by the way.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Star trek

Post by Daemian Lucifer » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:46 pm

JadedDM wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:17 am
This is the big problem with Star Trek continuity. All this nonsense cooked up just to justify a plot twist in a single episode of TOS.
Agreed.Some of the silliness is just best left unexplained,like they did with the klingons in ds9.We all know the actual out of universe reason for it,so making up a stupid in universe reason will not make it better.

Anyway,death wish is also a great episode.It features q and q and also q.It also presents us with one of the big ethical dilemmas:euthanasia.And it treats it with the necessary gravitas even.So kudos to that.The only two minor gripes I have are with "you are not a liar" line,which was demonstrably proven false in other trek,and the whole "I can get you back to earth" bribe.It was not needed,first because we know its not gonna happen,second because the issue of having humans exploit powers of q has been addressed by riker in tng,and third because it spoils the ending of the episode because we know that its not gonna happen.But those were minor and easily dismissed.
Andrew wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:55 am
and then the one episode featuring the Vidiian which is actually a good episode (no surprise it is a Doctor episode).
Thats the next one?Wow,this coupled with the last few episodes being unironically good,I actually am looking forward towards a voyager episode.That is not something I expected going into the show.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Star trek

Post by Daemian Lucifer » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:40 pm

You were right Andrew.That was the best expression of love Ive ever seen.But poor doctor,he is in love with a guest start.Those relationships are always doomed from the start.

"I assume youve had a great deal of experience being rejected by women" HA!!

A great episode indeed.Its both a great exploration and growth for the doctor,as an excellent insight into the vidiians.These guys I can see as great recurring villains,instead of the clowns from the last time.

One other observation that I wanted to share was not that positive though.At the beginning of the episode,tuvok has disappointed me."Our sensors dont detect other vidiian ships.It is unlikely to be a trap".Really tuvok?These guys have fooled your sensors multiple times before.Its more than likely that this is a trap.Luckily,the script went into a better direction and it was not a trap.

Oh yeah,the kazon spy is still a thing.Blegh.
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Andrew

Re: Star trek

Post by Andrew » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:47 am

Daemian Lucifer wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:40 pm
A great episode indeed.
Yes, I figured you would like it. It has all the hallmarks of a great story and it's championed by the best actor in the Voyager cast. Can't ask for more than that.

I could be wrong but this is one of (if not the) last time we see the Vidiian. It's a shame, really, because this episode showed just how much potential they had as a regular fixture in the Voyager universe. If only the first few versions of the Vidiian weren't so mind-numbingly dull and incompetent.

Speaking of incompetent. Heh, the Kazon spy story. Feels like it'll never end, doesn't it? :P
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: Star trek

Post by Daemian Lucifer » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:34 pm

Andrew wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:47 am
Speaking of incompetent. Heh, the Kazon spy story. Feels like it'll never end, doesn't it? :P
Luckily I know that itll end when the season ends*,so it doesnt bother me that much.

What does bother me is DEAR GOD WHY DIDNT YOU WARN ME?!A huge teaser of neelix pestering everyone!Worse,pdh is giving him advice as to how to be even more obnoxious!I can hardly wait for that to play out...

EDIT:*Ah,sooner than I though.Moron vs moron,who will win?Whoever it is,the audience loses.Though neelix being backhanded like that was really satisfying.

And the awesome epic of tom paris,hero of every field,continues.At least he is more likable than everyone else involved in this "spy" story.
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