This week I have been mostly playing...

Steve C

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Post by Steve C » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:22 pm

I get it. I get that it adds tension etc. I just don't get the appeal of that kind of tension-- extra punishment for doing it wrong. I'm with Shamus on not liking that kind of gameplay. I'm also someone who generally does hard mode for most games. I get that tension. Just not the appeal of ironman. I want the opposite- let me cut out any boring stuff I've mastered so I can get to the hardest parts asap.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Post by Daemian Lucifer » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:35 pm

Its not the tension of losing that people are talking about.Thats just frustration when you have to go all the way to the beginning.But what not reloading forces you to do is to press on with whatever has happened to you,to endure loses and enter situations that are less than optimal.And when you win in such a way,its sweeter than when you roflstomp the enemy(though sometimes theres much satisfaction in that as well).
Steve C

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Post by Steve C » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:06 pm

I get that it is to endure loses and enter situations that are less than optimal too. I understand all the aspects. I just don't see the appeal.

It's like me saying I don't like spicy food. And then all the sensations of spicy food being explained to me. Or the rush of going skydiving. Yeah I get what it does. I don't like those things. Or someone explaining they like having their testicles crushed. Explain it all you want, I don't see the appeal. I see all the various aspects. I get that people attach a positive value to those feelings and sensations. I personally attach a negative value to those things. I don't like those things and seek to avoid them whenever possible.
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Humanoid

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Post by Humanoid » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:33 am

Ironman's a huge timesaver. I wouldn't be surprised if my game campaigns saved a third or even half the time taken to complete them from not compulsively pursuing a perfect run.

It's kinda like how I intentionally kill someone very early on in games like Deus Ex or Dishonored. Put the non-lethal idea to bed early so I can play freely without having to consider whether to go for it.
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Narratorway
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Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Post by Narratorway » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:58 am

Okay, so I've gotten a little farther. I cleared the Cathedral cause the swamp sucks eggs. During which I was not alone. Yes, a forum benefactor showed up again, not in-game mind, but through steam chat. You can imagine what it was like...

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I feel I was appropriately cordial and polite through the wikidot onslaught. :P As I mentioned with him, I've noticed a peculiar aspect of this game. In DS1 I tended to often get the Black Knight Sword in the undead burg, and would just main that throughout the game. Since upgrading it to max was a simple and straightforward affair, I never really bothered to get too deep in upgrade paths. DS3 doesn't really offer that kind early game-breaking weapon, so I assumed I'd have to get to know the upgrade paths a little better...and yet. Everytime I think I'm ready to go down that particular rabbit hole, the game serves up another weapon with another unique moveset and I end up holding upgrades off a little longer until I really figure out what I want to main. At this rate, I expect to be pretty certain by the time I'm in front of the Lord of Cinder's fog gate. :P
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The Rocketeer

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Post by The Rocketeer » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:49 pm

Myself, I haven't played too much; finished off the last section of Ashes of Ariandel (not Ashes of Andariel, no matter how many times I and other Diablo II vets make that mistake), and the first section of the Ringed City.

Relying on pure magic damage continues to be a very mixed bag. As it turns out, the boss of AoA is heavily resistant to magic, and that fight turned into a nightmare like I haven't dealt with since... well, probably the first time I fought that boss. Despite not being built for it and displaying a couple hundred lower damage, my Chaos Lothric Knight Sword actually dealt more damage than my slower, more stamina intensive Moonlight Greatsword, and eventually won me the match. One big curveball was the second round, which is usually a walkover but becomes a real headache if you can't burst down one of the targets very quickly, which I couldn't.

The Ringed City has been a mixed bag so far. The murkmen resist magic, but they're easy, so fuck them. The harder enemies, meanwhile, were easily laid low by either the MLGS or struggled to deal with powerful ranged attacks. The first boss was, again, pretty resistant to magic, which I didn't expect, and is another boss that becomes much more difficult if you can't burst down the first stage with overwhelming damage.

But now I'm in the Ringed City proper, and the game is changed once again. I stopped right after the boss, so I don't know what to expect. But Midir is down there, somewhere.
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SleepingDragon

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Post by SleepingDragon » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:03 pm

I'm making steady progress through Avernum and probably added another hour, maybe hour and a half, to DS3. Since that seems to come up a lot now:

I made it to the final boss but haven't been able to push through yet (to be fair I've only tried it for a little while, I'm sure I'll get it with a bit of effort). One thing I'd like to mention on getting here... did I ever say I'm not the greatest fan of insects? Yeah... that was.. unpleasant. Again the hybrid build is doing a fairly decent job, during the first stage it is perfectly possible to disrupt the boss with a well landed hit (though I need to work on the timing for the "well landed" part), during the 2nd stage, interestingly enough I only noticed it after a couple tries, Father Ariandel doesn't' seem to share Friede's magic resistance? I think this might be key to my future efforts with this boss.
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The Rocketeer

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Post by The Rocketeer » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:07 am

The larger target isn't resistant to anything, as far as I know. But for weight and ring reasons, I didn't want both weapons equipped, and my suboptimal damage with the Chaos LKS meant it stayed alive much longer, and the reduced stagger from the straight sword meant that critical attack was that much harder to get. And while the larger target can't take damage well, it can certainly dish it out, so spending longer in melee range meant more chances to get one- or two-shotted.

The real monkey wrench was the smaller target, who was much more aggressive than I remembered. Usually, they seem to hang back and launch fairly trivial area-denial; this time, they were much more eager to close distance, and the two bosses grouped together are a big problem. Especially troublesome is the smaller target's tendency to hide in the larger target's oversized model, so that they take you by surprise when they suddenly attack, and you can't see what they're winding up even when you know they're there.

Even summoning the NPC phantom is a calculated risk; they remove all risk from the second phase by sharing aggro, but tend to die immediately in the third phase, leaving you solo with the health-boosted most dangerous opponent.

In the end, I prevailed by summoning, being as aggressive as possible when the third phase started, and, when the summon died with ~30% HP left on the boss, it was still a very risky proposition finishing it off with conservative play.
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John

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Post by John » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:34 pm

Restarted and finished the cursed scenario in Hard West. When there are no crashes, it's actually quite short. Two scenarios left to go. Once upon a time I was seriously contemplating getting some or all of the the DLC for this game, but now I just want it to be over. If I weren't in a bit of a completionist phase at the moment, I'd probably stop playing.

Incidentally, I took a closer look at the tool tip for Ironman mode. It said that Ironman mode forces you to restart a scenario whenever a plot-critical character dies. In normal play, by contrast, you only need to restart the current mission. I've been playing on Medium difficulty, which is the default, and that's happened to me all of twice (if you don't count the times I conspired to get a plot-critical character killed on purpose in order to deal with the missing UI elements bug). I guess what I'm saying is that, as Ironman modes go, this one is exceptionally mild and perhaps should called something else--though what I don't know.

Also, I'd like to note that, as the game progresses, bullet-sponge enemies are becoming increasingly common. I hate bullet-sponge enemies in Western-themed games. Two shots (assuming that enemy isn't behind cover) is still generally enough to kill an enemy, but it's still pretty disheartening when you shoot a cowboy right in his unprotected back and he doesn't, y'know, die. I know, I know, these are magic cowboys. Sigh.
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SpammyV
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Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Post by SpammyV » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:58 am

Honestly, bullet sponge enemies have only like a quarter of the absorbency of late-game enemies in XCOM. Honestly i barely noticed them soaking up lead in comparison to those games. And usually my guns were good enough to keep pace.

And speaking of the DLC, I honestly do not recommend Scars of Freedom. It's an interesting scenario in terms of story, but wen it comes to playing the dam thing... I liked Hard West and I thought the DLC was a slog, especially with its fetish for only giving you terrible guns in maps that would be challenging even with mid-tier weapons.

Honestly it's only Wednesday but I feel like I've been doing the Avenger Defense mission for ten days. The War of the Chosen one, not the one from the base game. The expansion mission is fun, but also kind of a giant slog. Huge map, almost thirty aliens (plus the Chosen leading the assault), all top-tier. You get to deploy ten soldiers but because of the way the map is laid out you're inclined to take it slowly so you don't get overwhelmed by alien pods. Taking extra damage because you accidentally activated two pods at once can be the thing that stops you from completing the mission. But there's something fun about being able to deploy all your cool soldiers at once and overcoming a giant challenge.

And then it takes even longer because taking 0% chance to hit turret shots from literally across the map makes the game crash or something.
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John

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Post by John » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:17 am

SpammyV wrote:Honestly, bullet sponge enemies have only like a quarter of the absorbency of late-game enemies in XCOM. Honestly i barely noticed them soaking up lead in comparison to those games. And usually my guns were good enough to keep pace.
It's all because of the theme. I've watched too many Westerns. When I see a cowboy get shot, I expect him to make a funny face, grip his belly, and fall down dead. That and these are unarmored humans we're talking about. It is not unreasonable to expect an unarmored human to die when shot at point blank range with a double-barrelled shotgun. (I suspect that one of the reasons that Hard West is a supernatural Western instead of the ordinary kind is to provide a reasonable explanation for things like bullet-sponginess.) I am not so bothered by bullet-sponge enemies in XCOM--with the notable exception of sectopods in Enemy Within, which I fear and despise in equal measure--because I don't have any expectations about how many shots it should take to kill, say, a hulking alien brute in green armor.
Steve C

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Post by Steve C » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:53 pm

I'm still playing Hard West. I've decided to finish it this time. I want to like it more than I do. The game has some good bones. A solid foundation with the luck and cover mechanics. It is the details that brings it down.

The overland map missions aren't fun (as I already mentioned). There are a ton of consumables except there's only two slots per guy for consumables. 90% are basically useless and the 10% that are useful, aren't very exciting. For example you could drink liquor for a max hp boost that lasts 2 turns. Turn 1 you drink it, Turn 2 you take the damage you expected. Turn 3 it expires and you die anyway. What's the point of that? I could throw a bomb to debuff the enemies. Reducing their aim and movement for 2 turns. Or I could just kill them and permanently reduce their aim and movement to 0. The good consumables are the boring ones like "heal to full."

The cards are interesting. Which is good. They are wild mixture of completely useless and extremely overpowered. Which is bad. By the end of each of the campaigns you will likely have most of the cards and at least some of the good ones. This results in the first mission in each campaign being the hardest, and the last being the easiest.
bullet-sponge enemies are becoming increasingly common.
They don't feel like bullet sponges to me. They do die really quick. I'd say 80%-90% of enemies are one hit kills. Even the 20hp bosses go down in one round. That's one of my complaints about the game- it is a bit too easy.* It is like the developer thought it was difficult. Except the developers weren't good at the game.
It is not unreasonable to expect an unarmored human to die when shot at point blank range with a double-barrelled shotgun.
They do. Don't they for you? I'm on the hardest difficulty. That's generally my strategy- run up close to a guy so there's a 100% chance to hit, then one shot them with a shotgun.

*Not referring to the bosses. It's refreshing when bosses are affected by all player abilities. Most of the time it just makes them mooks with high stats- but in a good way. Turn 1- see the demon boss. First action point- swap hp with boss. Second action point- shoot and kill the boss. Cool. Turn 2- Find out that the demon can become one of his mooks- Doh. Oh well at least my guy has 20hp now.
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Narratorway
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Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Post by Narratorway » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:59 pm

So I did that thing in Souls games that you're not supposed to do...

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Yeah...that. Before I knew it, there was a pot of 30k souls resting in the Abyss Watchers court. Eventually I lost it all, which had me ending the game for that night...but then I thought--

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A-hem...I realized today that the nature of the area around the bonfire near the boss gate meant those souls were relatively quick to accrue, so I decided to instead use the area to farm and practice my parrying. I should prolly buy a smaller shield for this, but I'm loath to purchase items I can grab off'n enemies.
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John

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Post by John » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:33 pm

Steve C wrote:They do. Don't they for you? I'm on the hardest difficulty. That's generally my strategy- run up close to a guy so there's a 100% chance to hit, then one shot them with a shotgun.
Well, that all depends on how many hit points they've got, doesn't it? Shotguns typically do about 5 points of damage. Every single enemy in the the first phase of the last Inquisitor Cervantes mission has 8 hit points. I too love flanking for one shot kills. It's my favorite thing about Hard West. But there are some missions where the game just doesn't want to let you do it.
Steve C

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Post by Steve C » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:29 am

In that mission you start with $1200 and a gun that does 6 dmg a shot. The gunshop sells two shotguns that do 6 dmg. Give everyone a +2dmg trinket and bob's your dead uncle. Or use card sets to give +2dmg. Or get some scars for +1dmg each and combine with +1 card sets. Or +1dmg from cards and the snake boots because the boots are the first trinket the game and also the best. Or if you are lucky and get the Equalization card, pop that first thing and make everyone's hitpoints =1. Or buy holy muskets for everyone which do 8 dmg as a base. It's the most expensive weapon. $1200 buys two for everyone and is possible immediately after the first mission.

Point is there are a lot of different ways to accomplish the same thing. It's kind of a problem with the game. It really pushes the player to the same strategy- run up to a guy and 1 shot him with a 100% chance. (At least it's less cheesy than one of the card combos that AoE kills everything you can see.)
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SpammyV
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Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Post by SpammyV » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:43 am

The Hunter, one of the Elder's elite Chosen narrows his gaze and surveys the targets before them. The course of action appears in front of him. All he had to do was choose the right position and the goal would blunder into his path. His thin lips part into a grin that bares his needlelike teeth. He swipes the dice off the table, and without hesitation rolls them. Doubles. He triumphantly moves the little car out of jail. "The most dangerous game?' he muses. "Hardly."

I'm starting to roll in good weapons and abilities now in XCOM 2.

I do like the ability training for not only letting you go down the other "path" for a class, but also giving you a bite at non-class abilities. Getting, say, a Grenadier with Run & Gun is nice. Or getting Bladestorm on your Templars. I mean, XCOM 1 also had the lethality hump going on where eventually you got weapons and abilities and you were ahead of aliens in the endgame, but all the extra rewards with the XCOM 2 expansions start to make that more clear. Taking out Weeb Queen took multiple tries before I stopped having half the squad die or get chewed up just getting to the Chosen fight. I barely squeaked by doing it in two cycles. And even then I kinda relied a lot on the fact that the mission ends when you kill the Chosen and their reinforcements don't matter. Killing the Neckbeard was a walk in the park. No one got wounded on the way and I maybe could have ended it in once cycle. Superior extended magazine + Banish on my Reaper was exactly as busted as I thought it would be, Troi just sat there firing six times and wiping off 70% of his HP at once.

I also did dabble with some cosmetic mods for XCOM 2. I got the Payday 2 Bulldozer voice pack and gave it to my SPARK, SKULLDOZER. Never doesn't make me smile to aim a rocket and hear, "THESE SONS OF BITCHES DIE NOW!"
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Narratorway
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Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Post by Narratorway » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:05 am

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Aaaaand I'm good! I'm prolly gonna stick out this place just a teensy bit longer cause I'm only two STR levels shy of one handing this sucka, but after that its time to whomp them Byssy Bitches! In the interim, I was able to nab the full set! Let's see how I look!

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Ooooh! Daddy likes!
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John

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Post by John » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:11 pm

I think my relationship with Hard West is in trouble. I finished the first mission of a new scenario and it crashed to desktop without saving my game. Now whenever I sit down at my computer with the intent to play Hard West I somehow end up playing Civilization or Street Fighter instead.
Steve C

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Post by Steve C » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:11 pm

Was it the first mission in "A Matter of Time?" If so, I have a save you can use. Ever since you said your game got corrupted I've been making backups of my save files just in case the same thing happened to me.
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John

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Post by John » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:49 am

It was, as it happens. But I tried again this evening and things are working properly for now. When next I resume playing, it will be time for the big poker tournament. This scenario is like a really depressing version of the movie Maverick but with demon federales.
Steve C

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Post by Steve C » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:01 am

Heh. I read your post with exactly that event on my other screen.
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Post by Daemian Lucifer » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:49 am

Which one of you got the remake of the third avernum?I would like to know if the generic dungeon has changed in it,seeing how it IS a fancy commercial game this time.
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Sudanna

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Post by Sudanna » Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:04 am

There are several of us. I'm not sure what you mean by "generic".
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Daemian Lucifer

Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Post by Daemian Lucifer » Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:56 am

Thats the name of an easter egg place with cats.
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SpammyV
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Re: This week I have been mostly playing...

Post by SpammyV » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:46 am

John wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:49 am
It was, as it happens. But I tried again this evening and things are working properly for now. When next I resume playing, it will be time for the big poker tournament. This scenario is like a really depressing version of the movie Maverick but with demon federales.
That... is a connection I had never made before. Also, I blame you now for the desire I feel to watch Maverick again.
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