Gamethread July 20

By Shamus Posted Monday Jul 20, 2009

Filed under: Notices 53 comments

Once again: How are things going on the Twenty Sided Servers?

If a moderator is harshing your mellow, this thread is the place to out him. Everyone having fun?

Just a reminder that you can donate to keep the servers running. I’ve pledged to pay for one of them if the fund runs dry. The Team Fortress 2 servers are $30 a month, each. The billing cycle hit about two weeks ago, and we’ve got $13 USD in the hat. That’s amazing, considering I haven’t mentioned the server fund (much less linked it) in over a month. You folks are great.

If you want to nominate some fresh maps, I think we’re due. The Lawful server will stay 100% vanilla stock levels, and will stick to ones that have broad appeal. (Ergo: No 2Fort.) But we can add some controversial or community maps to Chaotic if enough people demand them. Just nominate in the comments. (be sure to specify which server.) If the comments don’t paint a clear picture, I’ll take the nominees and run a poll later in the week.

Also, Rutskarn (one of our mods) has a post that allows us to view the game through the lens of hilarious, fiery death: A Review in 11 Deaths. I appear in one of the deaths. Also, congratulate him on 200 posts if you’re a base-ten landmark sort of person.

Also be sure to read this bit: SPAWN CAMPING FOR FUN AND PROFIT. (It’s not actually advocating spawn camping.) It’s from bbot, one of the server regulars and (last time I looked) one of the top players on our server. It’s a good bit and has a lot of insight on the game for new0ish players like myself. (It’s a rare game where you can clock 100 hours and still be “new”.)

 


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53 thoughts on “Gamethread July 20

  1. Pinky says:

    Hm, you know, the Left4Dead server never seems to be up, and half the time I check the TF2 ones are down as well. My computer, a bad server or an unlucky timezone and downtimes?

    Also, while I hate people who say this, I have to at least once. FIRST!

  2. Gobo says:

    I’ve always found the servers up and running when looking for them. Just takes a few minutes for the server list to get all the servers. (Should take a note of that magic connect-string one of these days).

    However, since I bought the Orange Box to get TF2, I’ve ended up playing Half Life 2 instead. At least when I get back to TF2 again, I might have trained some long lost FPS-reflexes. :P

  3. Simply Simon says:

    Usually the TF2 servers are empty when I check them. If you join and wait for a while the place usually fills up, though.

    I must admit, though, I haven’t been able to find the l4d one in a while, and it was a long time since I saw it full.

  4. Megadeus says:

    Shamus, I’m really loving both servers, but there appears to be a lack of moderation whenever I’m on. Last night the friendly trash-talk on Chaotic grew into some pretty vulgar name-calling and anatomical “humor.” I was pretty disgusted with some of the [non-d20] players, who were openly mocking the server for “having rules and then not enforcing them.”

    Other than that, I’m very pleased with the servers and community. If only I had a better computer on which to run my new addiction. =P

  5. Phase says:

    The servers are fine whenever I’m on, although when I’m on the majority of people tend to be D20 or GitP and so are usually well behaved.

    New maps for Chaotic would be cool, maybe one like Mach4, or Frontier.

  6. JimminyJoJo says:

    I don’t understand why people don’t like 2fort… its one of the better maps in my opinion. Maybe I like it because I mainly play spy and pyro, and the maze of corridors and tight passages lend well to that style of play. Whatever, there are still lots of good maps out there. I always have a good time on the server.

  7. bbot says:

    I asked this a while ago, but I am nothing if not fond of repeating myself, (something that I like) but who are the moderators? I would like to know, so I could avoid speculating outrageously on their sexual orientation; (spoilers: it’s for the same gender) and so I could join when they’re on, because I prefer my server rules to be enforced with an iron fist, or failing that, to be enforced at all.

    Also: Last time I checked, I’d fallen down to the ~100s, since spawn heckling is great for dying a lot, and not so good for killing members of the opposite team.

    Also also: pl_swift is fairly non-terrible.

    @6: 2fort sucks! Boo! CTF maps are fundamentally incompatible with frontal gameplay, something I talk about in the blog post linked above!

  8. Phase says:

    The Moderators currently consist of Shamus and Rutskarn.

  9. Rosseloh says:

    Pardon the dumb question, I don’t know anything about running these servers:
    Is the L4D server set up for versus, or is it just regular play? Or both? I tend to play only vs. nowadays, but it would be nice to get a few games in with d20 people.
    Also, I don’t play much TF2; it’s too fast paced for me, the few times I’ve gone out I’ve been shredded in a few seconds, by people who aren’t even speaking english. How’s the player mindset on these servers?

  10. Groboclown says:

    I’ve had an instance where someone was hacking (a heavy running around faster than a scout? c’mon), but, fortunately, that’s only happened once. There’s been other cases of over-the-top trash-talking.

    This may be due to my time of playing, which is usually around 10-12 pm central time. I don’t think I’ve seen a moderator on much during that time.

  11. Adeon says:

    I will once again make my request for adding a votescramble mod to the servers. We have a wide range of skill levels among regulars which means that it’s quite easy for the teams to get accidentally stacked and that’s no fun for anyone.

    Also as others have noted there are a shortage of admins so maybe install a votekick mod or something to allow the community to be at least somewhat self-policing. I realize vote kick mods are open to abuse but the D20 community is pretty mature.

  12. I’ll echo the comments about not being able to find the L4D[20] server. It means I’m more-often-than-I-care-to-think-about-it playing with… people I’d rather not playing with…

  13. Rutskarn says:

    Actually, speaking of moderators, we probably could use a few more. I have a few suggestions, and the people I have in mind could probably just fill out the forms themselves once they had the password.

    Also, Phase discovered a new and interesting way to break the server: turning off autobalance. We then began playing Hide-and-Seek: all of RED consists of Cloak-and-Dagger spies against a single BLU pyro. The pyro hunts down the cloaked spies, and as he kills them, they join as BLU pyros. Last spy standing becomes the pyro next round.

  14. BaCoN says:

    Bbot’s a champ. I vote bbot for mod. Also, for terrorist of the day. I agree with Ruts that there should probably be a couple more moderators. At least two more, I’d say.

  15. Pickly says:

    Its good to know who the “official” moderators are, though I do agree that more would be useful. There have been a good number of games where some assholish people get onto the server, and people just kind of let them go for awhile before finally a bunch other people tell them to stop what they’re doing, but knowing who the “official” mods are would allow people to do this more quickly (if mod types aren’t on), or could get the players off the server faster (if mods are on.)

    On maps, I’d personally like to see less 5 point control maps and more maps like gravelpit, dustbowl, and steel. (am not sure what other people’s opinions are on this, but the 5 point maps often seem to lead to either very fast scout rush type games, and I personally haven’t found them fun, though am not completely sure why.)

    I’m also one of those people hoping for more 2fort. It’s usually been pretty enjoyable the times I’ve played it.

    Egypt seemed like it could be pretty fun from when I was playing it a few months ago, and might be a good one for chaotic.

    Overall, though, I think a new map poll is in order (now that more people will have more experience with the game in general, and with particular maps), and perhaps there should be a day, or several days, where new maps are tried on the chaotic server to see of others should be added that are not currently on.

  16. Davin Valkri says:

    Agree with Pickly: The 5-cp maps invariably turn into repeated steamrolls or eternal stalemates over one of the three center points.

    I’ve also experimented with, and quite like, pl_cashworks, pl_swift, and pl_frontier. The last one has something called a “murder train” which should be quite humorous.

  17. Pickly says:

    Also, I don't play much TF2; it's too fast paced for me, the few times I've gone out I've been shredded in a few seconds, by people who aren't even speaking english. How's the player mindset on these servers?

    You’ll still probably get killed pretty quickly, but people should be relatively friendly. (Once you get used to the game, it should be o.k.) It also depends what class you play, something like a heavy tends to play a bit slower.

  18. Phase says:

    Another interesting map is cp_overflow. And again, ctf_mach4 and pl_frontier.

  19. Davin Valkri says:

    Rutskarn is your friend. If you need an admin, and an admin isn’t there, shift-tab, open “Community”, find Rutskarn, and cast Summon Admin of Banning.

  20. Rutskarn says:

    Indeed. I’m not shy about coming into a game for the sole purpose of banning someone–I’m on the computer frequently, so if you need a banhammer for hire just send me a PM.

  21. bbot says:

    @9
    >>Is the L4D server set up for versus, or is it just regular play? Or both? I tend to play only vs. nowadays..

    >>Also, I don't play much TF2; it's too fast paced for me…

    You play L4D, but find TF2 too fast paced? Really?

    TF2 isn’t fast paced, but is has acquired a fairly complex ruleset over the last two years, with the class patches. Spies die, then come back to life, and some spies seem to be able to inflict critical hits at will. Some pyros inflict critical hits when they sneak up behind you, other ones bounce you around with air blasts then kill you with your own rockets. Some scouts can knock you back, some are invincible for short periods of time, some can stun you from long ranges.

    If you’re not aware of all the rules then it’s hard to build a coherent mental model of what’s happening, so it seems like all sorts of crazy shit is happening all over the fucking place until you die, which you do, very quickly.

    Also!

    If Shamus does install sourcemod for the votekick and votescramble features, the moderators (both of them) should keep in mind that !sm_csay is a surprisingly effective moderation tool. TF2 is a unbelievably hostile environment to coherent thought, and trying to administer any kind of fair justice in it is somewhat like attempting to conduct a trial where everyone involved is both drunk and breaking up with their boy/girlfriend over the phone. The participants are preoccupied.

    Printing a nice bold line of text in the middle of everyone’s screen focuses attention wonderfully, and will often prevent the need for a kick, which is a win for everyone involved.

  22. Phase says:

    Oh, so THAT’s how one puts text in the middle of the screen. I was looking for that command one day, way back.

  23. vdeogmer says:

    The only thing I really want is the ability to vote for alltalk.

  24. Adalore says:

    I wouldn’t mind being a admin, though that might be simi-ego speaking.

    Though activity on the servers took a dive once I started having problems on this computer. (And got used too my fathers superduper computer of four-core super videocard, Ram too the max computer. The frame rate difference is startling.)

  25. GnomishMight says:

    Oh, Davin, the “murder train” has a name you know. It’s Chew-Chew.

  26. thegrinner says:

    I’m not shy about pinging Rutskarn if I need an admin, but I’d like to second the request for more moderators. Sometimes I can’t message any mods since they’re offline, and occasionally we just have people that rejoin using a different name a couple of minutes later, which means constant calls for admin.

    I’d also like to bring up the possibility of an arena map in Chaotic. Keep it out of the normal rotation if possible, but make it so during low volume time periods we can rtv to arena should we so wish.

    @Phase: Keep coming up with hilarious game alterations. It amuses me.

  27. Pocket Nerd says:

    I haven’t had much time to play lately, although I’ve managed to get on a few times over the last week. Other than one instance where a bunch of guys all joined at once and started mic-spamming, Lawful still seems pretty friendly.

    Thanks again for putting up those servers.

  28. Adeon says:

    @vdeogmer:
    I don’t think you’re going to find much support for that. Most of us like all talk because it encourages social play above super competitive play. Having the ability to vote it off would lose that.

  29. Jonathan says:

    I like the pyro vs spy idea. I always feel guilty playing spy because I’m THAT BAD at it.

  30. Phase says:

    @thegrinner: Next I intend to make it possible to stab people through the servers. Bring combat knives.

  31. Jabor says:

    It’s a shame, because I just moved back to University and the internet here is shit-horrible. It’s passable for research and such, but attempting to play any sort of multiplayer game is frustrating (constant disconnections and lag spikes).

    It was great fun when I was actually playing, though. I fondly remember an all-scout all-melee round…

  32. Pickly says:

    I don't think you're going to find much support for that. Most of us like all talk because it encourages social play above super competitive play. Having the ability to vote it off would lose that.

    Keeping an option open for moving away from alltalk seems like a good idea, though, it means that should players who are on at a time wish to switch to it, they can do so.

  33. Adeon says:

    @Pickly:
    I disagree. In my opinion having all-talk always on sets a very different tone than having all talk on occasionally. Also having a vote-plugin for all-talk adds an necessary level of complexity since it’s hard to tell for sure if it isn’t on (obviously it’s easy to tell if it is on).

  34. Rutskarn says:

    Interesting anthropological curiosity: all the micspammers seem drawn to Chaotic as opposed to Lawful. Just had to go ban a trifecta a minute ago.

    Lawful gets the jerks, Chaotic gets the freaks. Even split, really.

  35. Hideki says:

    All talk on makes things pretty fun, since it allows everyone to talk to each other regardless of the team they’re on. !votescramble is needed however, since teams tend to be stacked every so often, making people on the other team ragequit.

    Also, I was only around for the last round of hide and seek, but it was great. I always miss the gimmick rounds >.<

  36. Pickly says:

    I disagree. In my opinion having all-talk always on sets a very different tone than having all talk on occasionally. Also having a vote-plugin for all-talk adds an necessary level of complexity since it's hard to tell for sure if it isn't on (obviously it's easy to tell if it is on).

    What is it with the obsessions with not ever having team talk? The suggestion was to have team talk available should people who prefer it that way end up mostly on the server.

  37. Rosseloh says:

    You play L4D, but find TF2 too fast paced? Really?

    Maybe I wouldn’t if I actually got around to playing TF2. Anyway, at this point, I feel like VS. L4D has more strategy to it, while TF2 was just “whoever can aim fastest gets the kill”.

  38. Groboclown says:

    @Rosseloh:
    There’s actually quite a bit of strategy to TF2. Unfortunately, with the pick-up games, the strategy is either “more demos and medics, less snipers and spies”, or it devolves into “Me Fortress 2” (what you’re referring to).

    There are many, many references to TF2 strategy, but it seems the simplest one is “stick together as a group.”

  39. Adeon says:

    @Pickly: I like having all talk on because of what it does to the atmosphere of a server. My gut instinct is that if all talk is toggleable by the players it will spend more time off than on. Maybe I’m being pessimistic but I think that simple inertia will lead to this, I think more people will want to vote to turn it off than to turn it back on so the odds of a turn all talk on vote getting started are low (plus if you can’t talk to the other team it’s hard to coordinate a vote. Also when voting to turn it off all it takes is a few people yelling loudly that only scrubs use all-talk to convince some people who are already marginal about it to vote to turn it off (to shut them up if nothing else). Finally I don’t see being able to turn all-talk off as something that will add to the enjoyability of the server (especially since I enjoy telling people who bitch about all talk to go and play somewhere else, yes I’m a jerk).

  40. Pocket Nerd says:

    Once again I’m struck by the difference in atmosphere between the d20 servers and most others: I’m not very good at TF2, and I just spent forty-five minutes being slaughtered like a hog, first on Lawful and then on Chaotic. The winning team was obviously trying hard to help the newer players improve by offering genuinely useful advice. (I suppose they could have all stopped fighting back, but that wouldn’t really help us improve, would it?) I wish I’d played better, but I appreciate the veterans trying to help us scrubs. I haven’t seen that anywhere else.

  41. Shot the Deputy says:

    I almost always have a ton of fun on the TF2 servers. It’s nice to know that there’s always a place to go with friendly players.

    It’s also made me really want a headset so that I can co-ordinate with you all.

  42. RPharazon says:

    I haven’t been playing recently as I just bought several DLC packs for Fallout 3 whilst juggling time playing Halo 3 with friends, now that my Xbox is back from maintenance.

    Oh, and I got Audiosurf and I’m expecting to get two new PC games soonish. I’ve got a ton of games on my plate!

    As such, I hope that the servers have drastically changed (in any direction at all, really) by the time I get back.

    Just in case anyone cares at all (which they don’t.)

    I will now salvage this post by asking a question of active TF2ers and otherwise: When do you usually play (Local and GMT time) and under what circumstances? Do you only go online when you see a lot of [d20] people on the servers, or do you go online whenever simply because people are playing there?

  43. RedClyde says:

    I also haven’t seen the L4D server show up in a while. And every time I try to connect to it directly, it shows the generic add-on campaign poster and freezes halfway through the loading. =

  44. Rainmaker, the gray says:

    I support the “less 5-cp maps” idea. They are not so much fun (to me). Now, I really like PL maps, so having some new Pl maps would be fun.
    Another good thing would be to have more different maps on the Chaotic server. All the PL maps are on it too, so it is not all that different from Lawful, except for 2fort and Turbine (I really like Turbine!!!).
    About the environment, it’s all good, but i just don’t get when most of the people are online, since i am on another country and i have a 3-4 hours TZ difference…

  45. Pickly says:

    Finally I don't see being able to turn all-talk off as something that will add to the enjoyability of the server (especially since I enjoy telling people who bitch about all talk to go and play somewhere else, yes I'm a jerk).

    I’ve played several games in “friendly” types of groups, and social issues like what you are bringing up are almost never a problem, because people who do understand the point of such a group will shut down people who cause problems pretty quickly.

    As for the technical issues, I don’t know whether text and vice always go together (which would effect how alltalk vs. team talk is handled.) If they do not, organizing a vote simply involves using picking a channel that won’t change, and using that one ot organize votes should the need arise.

  46. Ranneko says:

    These posts have me really wanting to try playing on your servers, despite the timezone difference and the terrible ping I get. That said I’m likely to go with Chaotic because it appears to be less likely to be on payload, which is easily my least favourite map type.

  47. Good server.

    But a quick suggestion: give out admins only to those who are cool minded enough and not to those who will abuse the admin status.

    Example: I was playing on your server tonight (Thursday, 07.23.09) ~ 9:50PM, I think a bunch of you were there.

    Playing as an Engineer, I placed a sentry on the battlements and started racking up some good kills. Eventually a raid of 2-3 spies and a demo tried to approach the sentry from the other end but got eliminated quickly by my wrench.

    Result: I get kicked banned on the spot.

    (ADMIN) [ChHa] Rutskarn: banned player DoubleNegative
    You have been banned by admin permanently !!
    Disconnect: STEAM UserID STEAM_0:1:17958735 is banned.

    I’m sure there will be an excuse like “Shouldn’t have placed a sentry there” or “You can’t be loud” or “You hacked, I’m sure” – easily solved with a warning, mute, slap, slay, kick – but only trigger happy (inexperienced?) admins would just kick-ban on the spot.

    Cheers on everything else, good ping (East Side) and balanced rates! Thanks for the (shortlived) game.

  48. Rutskarn says:

    Double: That’s not why I banned you. There was a ragbag of reasons you were removed, with offenses unrelated to the sentry incident being among them. Honestly, if I had to have a blanket reason, I would say “being annoying.”

    Offense one: non-macroed micspamming, specifically the phrase “5-dollar foot-long.” You were asked to stop, persisted, were given a second fair warning, and complied. This would not have been a banning offense.

    You later made inflammatory, uncalled for statements over the general chat. These were not directed towards any one individual, per se, so while they were irritating, they themselves would not be a banning offense.

    Finally, later in that same match, your actions over the chat would not have been bannable…if nothing had preceded them. All factors considered, I decided your presence was no longer required on the server.

    To be fair, giving you a permanent ban was rash–a 24 hour ban might have sufficed, given that no one offense hit the critical mass of severity. Should you so desire it, I will reverse your ban once a 24 hour period has passed. I would advise you to be a little less caustic this time around.

    To reiterate: I didn’t even know you were an engineer, let alone that you were doing something with your sentries that might have been considered objectionable. I don’t ban people for their gameplay practices, unless they’re hackers or griefers. I ban them for creating an inflammatory presence on the server.

  49. Winter says:

    Aaaaaaaaaaargh…

    I rather like this server, but the maps make my skin crawl. Unlike everyone else, i really love Badlands and whatever. But (ahem) some of the maps make me quit whenever they show up.

    That’s not what i’m going to talk about right at the moment, though.

    Instead i’m going to talk about a replay i kept threatening to make, because i finally made it:

    Ninja Engy on 2fort lowgrav INSANITY!

    Seriously. If you haven’t seen me pull this trick before you should watch :)

    I’m going to harass Davin until he agrees with me and also posts that you should watch.

    Anyway.

    My strategy for fixing the maps is going to be pushing for Cashworks and Frontier. Because i really like them and i think they’ll fit in well with the existing maps. Both of them are way better than Hoodoo or Goldrush, at least.

    So please try them out, and then immediately add them to Chaotic because you are so impressed :)

  50. Davin Valkri says:

    To Winter: Well, I like Goldrush, and Hoodoo is okay. Cashworks and Frontier are surprisingly good for community made maps, especially the concept of “Lil’ Chew-Chew the Murder Train”, and so we have, what, five or so recommendations for pl_cashworks and pl_frontier.

    Badlands is very team-dependent–small differences in skill make for big differences on the map. Well devolves into stalemates too much, and Granary is too linear, since after the middle point there aren’t any good ways to flank on the horizontal (soldier and demoman lovers love it, though).

    And yes, you should watch the ninja engineer skills.

    …if only to learn all of Winter’s tricks so you know to send a pyro or a heavy to guard your stuff straight off.

  51. Winter says:

    Okay i’m being told my link doesn’t work.

    Let’s try this one, instead.

    (Edit)

    Two things: first of all, Badlands is really easy to lose on. The thing you have to realize is that if you’re losing mid and GOING to lose mid your number one priority is not fighting over mid, but getting defenses on the spire point because whoever gets to the spire first owns it.

    Secondly: Noooooooo! Don’t adapt to my amazing Engineer tactics!

  52. Rutskarn says:

    Today is the GitP Grinder (a match–nay, a brawl–between the posters of Giant in the Playground). Player Zero, who you may have seen on the servers, is one of the team captains, while I am the other.

    Anyway, you might see us on the servers today. Don’t worry, we’re well behaved and promise not to break too much furniture.

  53. Irridium says:

    Can someone please tell me the IP addresses of the TF2 servers so I can add them to my favorites.

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