Knights of the Old Republic EP10: Mission Edition

By Shamus Posted Wednesday Sep 16, 2015

Filed under: Spoiler Warning 149 comments

Link (YouTube)

I’ve never betrayed the Hidden Beks, but I assume that even if you do, you still end up having to participate in the Swoop Bike race.

So the Beks have this unstable engine that might kill the driver. It’s so dangerous that Gadon doesn’t want any of his people to use it. Then the Black Vulkars steal it, and THEY don’t want to use it either. So the two sides are fighting over an engine that neither of them want to use. And even though you’re demonstrably stronger than either gang, they somehow strong-arm you into driving this thing, which even if it doesn’t kill you is still probably cheating. You do this in order to win the swoop bike race, even though you don’t care who wins, because it’s supposedly the only way to reach Bastila.

The game doesn’t explain why you couldn’t simply attend the race as a spectator / interloper. I get that Bastila was in an undisclosed location, but I imagine everyone knows where the race itself is held. Seeing as how you’ve just wiped out one of the major gangs in this city, it’s reasonable to assume you could simply free her via direct assault. And even if that’s not possible, it seems like it would be easier to free her after the race. One gang or another is going to win her, at which point you can recover her without needing to pilot a rocket bomb through a rigged race.

Maybe you’re doing it this way simply because it’s less violent? But then you end up having to kill people anyway.

And then Bastila frees herself. And then she mocks you for your trouble.

So you have to fight a war to recover an engine nobody wants, to win a race you don’t care about, to free a woman who doesn’t need your help.

This entire quest is a stupid, irritating, horribly contrived slog that clogs up the story right when things need to get moving. For the purposes of the plot, the writers ought to get us to Dantooine as fast as possible so we can introduce the actual main elements of this story. There’s lots of time later for arena fights, swoop-bike racing, and gang politics. But of course you can’t come back to this place once you leave.


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149 thoughts on “Knights of the Old Republic EP10: Mission Edition

  1. Daemian Lucifer says:

    So I saw this is on youtube,and I thought “YEEEAAH”,and then the video started and Galaxy Gun was “YEEEAAH”,so I laughed out loud.Nice timing.

    1. Phantos says:

      Reminds me of the Skyrim episode they did where there’s that one soldier that keeps screaming “YEAAAAAAHH!!!!” during the king’s speech.

      And how Mumbles matched and then increased the enthusiasm with each subsequent shout.

      1. Henson says:

        Luigi invades Skyrim. An army of Luigis.

        Dragonsreach burns. All fear his reign of terror. But at least the plumbing works.

        1. Ledel says:

          I want this mod. Please someone make this mod. Just replace all the guards with Marios and Luigis, and all their speech files with Mumbles going “YEEEAAAAH!”

  2. Daemian Lucifer says:

    Holy crap,what is bastila doing in the end credits there?

    1. Ledel says:

      Yeah, seriously, why would you travel with Bastila? She’s so self-centered and annoying.

      1. Thomas says:

        For all my Carth hate, I kind of like Bastilla. She’s a little messed up right from the start, and when she’s annoying it’s because she’s crippled herself with her own insecurities. They also do interesting things with her in the endgame, and when you realise the extra knowledge she does/doesn’t have that adds another layer to her character.

        I think her romance is the most interesting too in the hokey-Star Wars things KOTOR has going on. It actually ties into the plot a lot.

        1. DrMcCoy says:

          Yeah, dunno, I also quite like Bastila. I also like Mission, and I heard people find her very annoying too.

          I really, really hate Carth, though.

        2. James says:

          There is also the thing when you free her, she knows you after all, she captured you and was part of the team that erased you memories after all and maby part of that is false bravado, you cant have Revan know (s)hes strong incase they remember who they are

          striking out spoilers for a 13 year old game on a site where im sure most of the commentators know the plot is strange but better safe then sorry.

          1. Daemian Lucifer says:

            Well,we kind of are not talking about that spoiler anyway,before the cast reaches that point.

        3. SlothfulCobra says:

          I kind of liked Carth, but I never really liked Bastila at all. She’s just the character whose job it is to tell the player at every juncture to stop having fun. Sure, Carth will raise a fuss whenever you do horrible things, and he leads you by the nose through half the game, but he scales back after Taris, and then he’s just got character development left.

          Bastila, on the other hand, leads you by the nose through the rest of the game, and most of her character development conversations are basically chiding you if you are not 304% pure doing things by the jedi code book all the time (also they’re chock full of lies), and even her backstory is basically just her refusing at every step to admit that she’s wrong in the most assholish way possible.

          So when Bioware threw the final twist at me where if you didn’t properly romance her, it’s a much harder skill check to convince her that she doesn’t need to die for turning to the dark side, I was fine with it. She earned her destiny.

          1. Grudgeal says:

            Yeah, that last part really annoyed me too. It felt really like railroading. But on the plus side, at least my Light Side but-I-never-really-liked-her-personally character got to pay her back for the plot-mandated annoyances and claim the moral high ground that way so, hey, I don’t mind that much.

            I think the main thing to contrast to me how I feel KotOR II is better than the original to me is this: Both games saddle you with a force-bonded jedi character who sermons at you constantly and are very divisive amongst the fandom. In KotOR 1, that person is Bastila. In the sequel, it’s Kreia.

            1. Daemian Lucifer says:

              Thats (one of the many reasons) why I love hordes of the underdark.In the end,you have to make your companions not betray you.You can do that by inspiring loyalty in them through the game,or by offering a counter bribe/intimidation,or by learning their true name in advance and just brainwashing them into being loyal.And of course,that last one is the best option,because no loyalty is as strong as the loyalty of the one you literally mind rape into submission.

      2. Hal says:

        Her companion side conversations are pretty fun, though. If you don’t care for her, then I’m sure you’ll enjoy Carth and Canderous taking the piss out of her.

        1. Ledel says:

          Well, I did have one conversation between her and Mission that I liked, where Mission berates her for never having fun. Mission: “Don’t you ever want to use the Force to trip someone who’s annoying you?” Bastila: “No, never. A Jedi would never be so petty as to abuse the force for something like that.” *trips Mission with the Force*

      3. ehlijen says:

        At that point in the game she is the only party member that can use lightsabres. The lightsabre door cutting animation is far shorter than the lockpicking animation or the slow process of trying to get it open with blasters or knives.

        She’s also got Force heal (I think?) making healing much less of a hassle, and that everyone gets +X to all stats power. Until you get your own jedi powers, bringing her makes a lot of things much more convenient.

        But she shouldn’t be. The sith are still looking for her! She should be sitting in your hideout and keeping away from the windows!

        1. Gruhunchously says:

          It’s odd that they bring up that very point if you try bring her out on Korriban, but not here, where it’s just as salient. You can have Bastilla Force Sprinting through the streets right past the Sith troopers that are supposedly looking for her.

  3. hborrgg says:

    That’s another problem with this section of the game. It takes way too long before you jedi party-heal ability, meaning that you get to spend a bunch of time scarfing down medpacks after every fight.

    Anyways, I seem to remember running around and planting mines behind you to be the big lifesaver during the second game. Especially when they suddenly decided to make you play as Atton against some really tough melee boss fight.

    1. John says:

      You can also hide behind the bar and shoot them while they stand there like idiots. They don’t have guns. It’s effective but tedious.

    2. Majere says:

      The first thing I do every time I get to Nar Shaddaa is plant every mine I have in the bar so that that fight ends pretty much the moment it transitions from dialogue to combat and the entire room explodes.

    3. DrMcCoy says:

      Oh, yes, cheesing the fights with Atton by planting lots of mines, and abusing shields and the buggy NPC pathfinding. It’s basically the only viable strategy.

    4. Jonathan says:

      Yes. It’s a terrible fight, unless you save Nar Shadda for last and get Atton turned into a Jedi first.

      1. Syal says:

        Nar Shaddaa in general is pretty bad.

        1. SlothfulCobra says:

          It’s great and amazing aside from the parts where you actually have to play the game.

    5. Viktor says:

      My favorite was T3 vs multiple HK-50s. That fight is insane. Though I just used his unique infinite shield and unique infinite shock arm to wipe them out with 0 damage taken, bc shields are broken.

    6. Bubble181 says:

      Err, Atton vs the Twin Suns can be quite easy even with Nar Shaddaa as your first planet – it’s possible to turn him Jedi with that being the first planet *just* before the fight.
      If you say “Atton facing a hard melee boss” to me, I think of the fight against Darth Sion near the end which is much, much harder, either as a Jedi or as a scoundrel.

      1. hborrgg says:

        That one was also pretty tricky. Although sometimes if you got a pillar between yourself and him his AI would bug out, allowing you to plant twenty mines in that spot while he just stands there.

    7. 4th Dimension says:

      That fight is even harder is Atton has been sitting on his but during entire game since you never brought him on missions so he doesn’t have any good gearm, thus you have to emergency equip him with whatever is left around in the inventory.

  4. Ledel says:

    I’m guessing that between this episode and next episode is 20 minutes of cut footage of Josh trying and failing to beat the new time.

    Which brings up the point of, if this prototype accelerator makes the swoop bike nearly unbeatable, how is it someone is able to be beat if you make a perfect (or near perfect) run of the track?

    1. Syal says:

      The prototype does nothing. It’s an aluminum can with popcorn kernels inside to make it sound fast.

      1. Incunabulum says:

        Nah man – the website says it has *magnets* in it. everyone knows magnets make your car faster and use less fuel.

        1. Supahewok says:

          Magnets are the racing stripes of the 21st century.

          Be sure to get them in red.

          1. MrGuy says:

            How do they work?

            1. Daemian Lucifer says:

              The racing stripes,or fucking magnets?

      2. Ledel says:

        So it’s like clipping a baseball card to the spokes of your bicycle to make it sound like a motorcycle. Well, I’m sure glad we committed so much cold-blooded murder just to get the blind man’s collectible card back. Light-side points, yay?

  5. And that end of Bastila mocking you is why I hate her. And why from this point on she stays in her slave clothes.

    Am I the only one seeing the next one coming? Fight ensues, enemies detonate mines, mines kill everybody including the protagonist. Cue Josh annoyed because he saved after planting the mines and now he has to load and remove them all before running the race twice.

    In my games, even when I play a level 2, I don’t use mines. I just run around trying not to attract attention and it usually works. I let Bastila handle them and that mitigates my hatred against her. What I don’t know, after my latest game that I did level to seventh level, how did I beat this fight in the first attempt the first time I played it, being this the first game I played in years.

    Also, I never use grenades or mines. I think I did use a couple during the arena fights. In the latest I did use the concussion on Bendak, since he’s weak to them and not using them I kept dying in one shot, specially annoying in the attempts when he was one hit away from going down.

    1. Supahewok says:

      Unless I’m really, really mistaken, mines don’t do friendly fire; enemies’ mines don’t hurt them, your mines don’t hurt you.

      1. MrGuy says:

        Wow, that’s surprisingly intelligent mines. Are they steam powered mines or something? Can I reprogram them with pipes?

        1. Matt Downie says:

          Star Wars mines are all sentient beings with C3PO-level intelligence. They live in a constant state of terror, knowing that their ultimate duty is to explode, and to direct the blast away from any friendlies.

          1. Grudgeal says:

            Nah. If you’re going to make intelligent bombs, you’ll probably going to make them want to enjoy their work.

            Then again, Star Wars has a *horrible* record on AI rights so you probably have a point…

            1. Peter H. Coffin says:

              could have sworn you were going this direction…

        2. Ledel says:

          Well, they have pipes filled with blue liquid. To disarm them you have to direct the pipes to the right outlet, and then the mines become friendly to you.

    2. Benjamin Hilton says:

      I’m really curious to see the crew’s opinion of Bastila. In my experience a lot of people liked her, as well as the later romance with her. However the SP crew hated Miranda from ME who was clearly modeled(personality-wise) off of Bastila.

      As for setting up mines ahead of time, the best for me will always be Anton’s fight with the twins in the cantina. I fill that place with so many mines, even my modern PC chugs when the cutscene ends and the mines immediately blow.

      1. Majere says:

        If the entire bar floor isn’t hidden beneath a sea of glowing hemispheres you’re playing Nar Shaddaa the chump way.

      2. ehlijen says:

        The difference between Miranda and Bastila is that Bastila isn’t shown as ‘perfect’ in any way ever (her own opinion notwithstanding). In fact, the game makes sure to remind you that she is self absorbed and not ready to be a jedi.

        The only time Miranda does oversell herself and then fails is in the biotic bubble segment in the collector base. And you don’t get to call her on it! Meanwhile, the only way Bastila will survive the game is if the player character chooses to forgive her.

        Bastila is written to be flawed and annoying. Miranda is flawed and annoying because she was written to be ‘perfect’.

        1. SlothfulCobra says:

          Yeah, I’ll gripe about Bastila, but at least she has character development and reasons for why she’s such a jerk at times. Miranda just claims to be perfect, scoffs at you and all your natural-bred companions, empties the Normandy of people who can defend it before the Collector invasion (and blames Joker for the consequences of her actions), has a loyalty mission where all the player has is her word that she’s doing the right thing, and the game doesn’t give you any reason for her actions or even let you fight back against her like you can with Bastila.

          All she’s got is that butt that keeps showing up in cutscenes.

          1. Thomas says:

            Miranda isn’t written to be perfect. She’s very sarcastic about the idea that she’s a ‘perfect person’ as soon as you get past her most outer defences. She’ll only say she’s perfect whilst dripping her voice in irony.

            I hadn’t realised before, but Benjamin is right, she’s doing a Bastila thing where it’s arrogance to prop up the mile high insecurities immediately behind it.

            Of the two, I do like Bastila better, but I think Miranda had better potential. Because Miranda has this thing going on where she feels like all her achievements in life have been robbed by her father. She became second in command to a terrorist because she’s driven to achieve, but she still doesn’t feel like she’s accomplished anything because she can just say “Oh my genes did that.”

            And so it makes her relationship with Shepard weird because she actually really likes being beaten by them. Even without super-genes Shepard is kicking her ass, which in an odd way means that the genes weren’t that important in the first place and so she can feel good about what she’s achieved herself.

            And that makes her ‘romance’ even weirder, because she basically mounts Shepard as a trophy on her wall (double entendre intended). Her mind is literally going “Shepard is the most accomplished person in the galaxy. I have screwed Shepard. Therefore I am now the most accomplished person in the galaxy.”

            BUT! Miranda was a legitimate writing fail on behalf of Bioware. With every character in ME2 you can read as much into them as I’ve written there and it’s 100% the writers intention to have that read into it. And I’m sure the writers would agree with my summary again.

            However they describe her as this confidence cocky space rogue, and Miranda feels nothing like that. And she’s meant to be genetically designed, but she doesn’t look beautiful or designed. Instead she feels like a very talented bureaucrat whose forcing people to take her on field missions so that she can feel good about herself, even though she should really be leaving that to someone else.

            And I don’t think they meant to write her like that at all. Bastilla is less complicated, but also written exactly how Bioware meant to write her.

            1. Daemian Lucifer says:

              And so it makes her relationship with Shepard weird because she actually really likes being beaten by them.

              Damn right!You know she is into all that kinky stuff,whips and chains all around.

              1. Thomas says:

                You joke, except she totally would be :p Although she’d probably want to hold the whip

            2. Ledel says:

              I think the biggest difference there is that you do get to question Bastila and her actions. Bastila pushes back and fights for her side, but since you get into a contest of wills with her (and eventually she gives your opinions a bow of respect).

              I think the most you get to push against Miranda is to tell her to back down when she’s berating Joker after the collectors attack. The only other time is when you recruit Grunt and can give her a side-look after asking EDE how fast the room can be vacuumed. Even after her loyalty mission her dialogue doesn’t change to bowing to your lead.

            3. Benjamin Hilton says:

              Yeah the fact that she only ever refers to herself as perfect in a sarcastic tone is what made me not hate her.

        2. Daemian Lucifer says:

          When is miranda shown to be perfect?Unless you count her perfect magnetism for making the camera look at her ass.

          Both her and bastila are praised by all the npcs for no reason.Miranda gives you a passive bonus to the party and bastila is the first jedi you get,and thus somewhat stronger than the rest of your party in the first part of the game.Otherwise they arent anything special compared to the rest of your people.Though bastila does at least fight a bunch of guys when you first meet her,while miranda just point blank shoots some random dude.And bastila is shown to have some impact in the end fleet fight.

          1. Corsair says:

            When is Bastila shilled by the NPCs? I don’t remember -anyone- shilling Bastila beyond them being aware that she has valuable abilities.

            1. Benjamin Hilton says:

              Well Mission really dislikes her at first. And even the Jedi council say she’s still a little too young and hot headed.

      3. lurkey says:

        I got annoyed by her introduction as everyone else (but it was obviously designed to annoy) and didn’t like her up until her personal quest on Tattooine (postponing discussion on that until SW gang does/does not cover it).

        Also, Mira from KOTOR2 is way more Mirandier. Cocky and arrogant while grossly incompetent? Check. Hypocrite? Check. Body part constantly on display? Checkity-check! Cannot call her on her bullshit? Fucking check.

      4. Mortuorum says:

        Tali was likewise modeled on Mission, but for whatever reason I hated Mission and loved Tali. Bioware only has so many stock character types, but are inconsistent at making them interesting. Or maybe it’s just me.

        1. Daemian Lucifer says:

          Its the sexy exotic accent.

          1. Orillion says:

            And the legs. They may not be human-shaped, but they are shapely nonetheless.

  6. Spammy says:

    I don’t remember hating swoop racing. Granted the first time I played this game was Back In The Day and the second time I played it I got to Kashyyk before my dislike of replaying games kicked in and I haven’t played it since.

    1. el_b says:

      with rpgs its best to wait a few years. they dont have anywhere near the replayability as an rts or non cod (not even allowed to open doors yourself) fps where more things can happen.

    2. John says:

      I sort of liked swoop racing. The race on Taris made me think I was good at it, so on my first time through the game I was eager to check out the tracks on other planets. I was confused when the track on Tatooine kicked my ass. Then, later, I realized how the race on Taris was scripted. That was a let down. I haven’t bothered with racing beyond Taris on any playthrough since.

  7. el_b says:

    i like swoop racing as an optional minigame, but i do tend to savescum it. im one of those guys who beats the top score first time and then hits every obstacle for the next ten races. pazaak sucks, but i did that last time just for completions sake since i never bothered with it. moneys not bad for it though in the end.

    1. djw says:

      Its hard to resist getting the race bonds and then selling them to Suvam Tam. I got slightly ahead of the spoiler warning crew on my play along, and I managed to get some 20k off of the bonds on the tatooine circuit (just don’t sell them anywhere else).

      1. el_b says:

        i REALLY wish id known that

        1. djw says:

          There is always next play through… The price you get from him for the bonds makes it easier to buy some of his best in game gear.

    2. guy says:

      I kind of like swoop racing, but it’s horribly unforgiving. I would like it a lot more if the time targets were just a bit looser so you had some room for screwups.

      1. djw says:

        If I recall correctly that is mostly a problem on Manaan. Tatooine didn’t seem all that tight on my most recent playthrough. Kotor 2 manages to make it much worse with the addition of a z-axis.

    3. DrMcCoy says:

      Lots and lots of save-scumming for me, both for racing and Pazaak…

    4. SlothfulCobra says:

      Yeah, and the big problem is that in the rest of the swoop races in the game, you still need to race at least 3 times to take first place, even if you break all the records the first time through.

      Swoop racing is a handy way to make money, and there’s neat little backgrounds to all the characters and the racing scene on that particular planet, but it’s not very good gameplay-wise and you have to pay 100 credits every time you race, so it bugs me in that “everything in this game is a limited resource so I can’t waste it” part of my brain. There’s also lots of people later in the game who say that Taris is the big swoop racing capital of the galaxy, which seems contrary to the fact that it’s just a couple biker gangs showing off to eachother.

      There’s even a neat little thing where if you become the swoop champion, people all over the planet will start mentioning that you’re a famous swoop racer now. It’s a nice touch.

      1. Alex says:

        “…it bugs me in that “everything in this game is a limited resource so I can't waste it” part of my brain.”

        It’s been many years since I played it, but IIRC there is a small herd of animals on Tatooine that respawns indefinitely, that drops a particular item that you can sell, also indefinitely.

  8. Syal says:

    “Jake LLoyd nicknames – Mannequin Skywalker”.


  9. Birras says:

    The dark eldritch entity known as the Cuftbert, having become self-aware and growing discontent at merely trolling the Spoiler Warning crew, has turned against its creator and has begun trolling Josh. Tune in for next season, where the Cuftbert has imprisoned each of the Spoiler Warning crew in personalized realms of perpetual nightmare, followed by a week long miniseason of Hatoful Boyfriend, and then Red Faction Guerilla.

    1. Ledel says:

      Mumbles torture room would be her having to look into a room where Reginald complains about how hungry he is, and looks longingly at a body prepared on a table. Reginald walks up, licking his lips, holds the leg right up to his mouth. Then, just before he takes a bite, laughs and says “No, not today. It’s a waste of a perk.”

  10. Micamo says:

    I like betraying the Beks because they’re objectively more evil than the Vulkars, even though the game says that it’s “light side” to support them.

    1. Majere says:

      That’s simply not true. The Vulkars literally just murder people at random in the streets without provocation and also, you know, are traitorous slavers.

      1. Micamo says:

        I don’t know what you’d call what Gadon and the Beks to do you, if not “traitorous slaving”

        1. Micamo says:

          And of course the Jedi are even worse: I maintain the dark side ending is the slightly more reasonable one of the two, for this reason.

          Call it childish but I really, really strongly rebel in games against people who try to trick or coerce me into doing what they want, *especially* when it’s because they think they know what’s best better than I do. And *especially especially* when it backfires and they blame me for what goes wrong.

          *Shakes her first at Lord Nasher in Neverwinter Nights 2*

          1. guy says:

            Er, if you’re talking about the shard shell game, I don’t recall anyone criticizing you for it not working out.

          2. Corsair says:

            The Jedi do a morally questionable thing out of desperation to save the galaxy from being crushed under a tyrant’s boot. The Sith do morally questionable things so they can crush the galaxy under a tyrant’s boot.

            And the -Jedi- are the worse of the two?

            1. Majere says:

              The Sith don’t even do morally questionable things they do obviously evil things like glassing city planets without even pulling their own troops off the surface first.

            2. Micamo says:

              Objectively speaking? Yeah, the Jedi are better, even if only because Malaak and his stooges are complete dunces. Still though, it really says something that the game got me to hate the Jedi much, *much* more than I hated the Sith, because the Sith are such clowns and the Jedi are much more effectively written as villains, because their crimes are more subtle and insidious than “HA HA GENOCIDE IS FUN”

              1. Corsair says:

                Their crimes being -what- exactly? What they did to Revan? Such villainy, they made a pragmatic decision while fighting a losing war.

  11. Incunabulum says:

    And then Bastila frees herself. And then she mocks you for your trouble.

    Ahh, but see – this is to show Bastila is a strong, female character; just like Leia and not, in any way, a disposable love doll for the PC that will dispense sex after you insert enough credits*gifts*.

    1. John says:

      This particular barb is aimed at Dragon Age or other, later Bioware games, right? Because that’s not how the romances in this game work at all.

    2. SlothfulCobra says:

      The alternative to gifts is just going through conversation trees until the game decrees that you’ve seen enough dialogue to earn some nookie. The system in Dragon Age actually adds more complexity to romancing your chosen NPC, so you have to put more effort into it.

      Of course, personally I never much liked having the in depth character development conversations being gated behind this crazy system of guessing what would happen at the next town and which character would like it, so I just used the cheat items from Feastday.

      1. Daemian Lucifer says:

        The system in Dragon Age actually adds more complexity to romancing your chosen NPC, so you have to put more effort into it.

        No it doesnt.Give random item you found lying around to the correct npc is not complex,nor does it require more effort.It just replaces “talking to npc after certain amount of missions are finished” with “talking to npc after certain random item was stumbled upon”.

        1. Sleeping Dragon says:

          I think the idea was that you not only clicked through the conversation but actually paid attention “Oh, this person mentioned that this thing is important to them because of this event”, which in theory at least is nice.

    3. ehlijen says:

      Is this sarcasm?

      Bastila acts this way because that’s who she is. She is blessed/cursed with power beyond her maturity to handle. She snaps at you because the game is trying to show that she’s spoiled through and through, not ready to be a jedi, let alone a leader. That why, in the end, she falls to the dark side, to no one’s surprise.

      1. Micamo says:

        That interpretation’s plenty valid if you Trust The Writer: My first time through the game, I just assumed the writers intended for you to be impressed by Bastila and want to bang her, and just failed miserably.

        1. ehlijen says:

          I guess an antagonistic reader is always hard to pull along in a story.

          The rescue was badly placed in the story flow, but I never felt as though she wasn’t meant to be as obnoxious as she came across. Sure, Carth idolised her somewhat in your talks prior to that scene, but he’s a boy scout who idolises everything Good(tm).

          As soon as I got to Bastila and Mission bickering, I knew all was going as intended.

          1. Corsair says:

            Considering like the first conversation between Carth and Bastila after you get back to base is Carth busting her chops for being a bitch I’m pretty sure the writers knew exactly what they were doing.

          2. Micamo says:

            Tell me how I’m supposed to do that stupid swoop racing runaround and *not* be antagonistic toward the writers afterward.

            PS I actually do really like this game, this is just my most-hated part

            1. Daemian Lucifer says:

              Um,maybe by thinking that its not the writers that made the races?

  12. Nidokoenig says:

    I sometimes wonder if having the story and gameplay so integrated is part of why RPGs can be so annoying when you’re expected to do dumb shit, especially dumb shit that requires you to go across the map stomping inconsequential and uninteresting mooks. There’s plenty of plot silliness in games like Bayonetta, Kid Icarus: Uprising or Senran Kagura, but since the characters are driving the plot of the cut scenes or VN sections and you take over when stuff needs killing, who cares? Especially since the silliness usually gives some insight into the fixed characters, rather than being a collection of player choices you can’t assume will be coherent and so don’t really make up an interesting story. That and those games will at least change things up with flying mooks and the occasional boss or miniboss that fights differently rather than just having sword mooks and gun mooks.

    1. guy says:

      I think it’s mostly that the way RPGs frame their story makes it feel like the player is being forced to do something stupid, while other genres make it feel like the character is doing something stupid on their own initiative.

      1. MrGuy says:

        Some people are born stupid, some achieve stupidity, and some have stupidity thrust upon them. In KOTOR, it was all three.

  13. Smiley_Face says:

    Am I the only one who played through this game without using grenades? I felt like they made the combat a lot less interesting (not to say that it’s super interesting to start with; just that I’m loathe to make it any less than it already is) – that and I hate to use any consumable ever in an RPG.

    And now every time I see it, I’m going to think ‘gotta catch ’em all’, hah.

    1. Majere says:

      I very rarely used grenades mostly because I’m a massive hoarder in games.

      1. Falterfire says:

        Anybody who has played a game with me (or watched me play a game) is well aware that I will refuse to use any limited use item out of a fear I’ll need it later, but Grenades in particular I bear a grudge towards – They tend to be tricky to aim, tricky to time properly (A lot of games make you hold them for a bit or the enemies just run away before they detonate) and expensive.

        Of course, in the games where they’re good, they’re absolutely bonkers (See: XCOM:EU), but my habitual disregard of grenades means I rarely remember I have them when I need them.

        On a related ‘usually not worth the trouble’ note: Fully automatic weapons if there’s a semi-auto option.

        1. djw says:

          In Kotor I know I will become a Jedi later, so the time to use grenades is now.

    2. Chefsbrian says:

      Depending on the class, I don’t use grenades too heavily, except against droids. I did try and save most of my ‘nades for the star forge, but you could buy Ion grenades everywhere, so I usually just cleaned my way through droids with ’em.

      If I was particularly abundant with credits in a game, especially early on, I’d go out of my way to kill Calo with a thermal detonator. Seemed fitting.

    3. Xeorm says:

      The only time I ever used grenades was in some of the earlier fights where you don’t have uber jedi powers. Most notably the arena fights, last one in particular.

    4. Daemian Lucifer says:

      Depends on the never.On taris,I used them a lot.Afterwards,when you get a bunch of force powers,I never bothered with them.

  14. John says:

    The secret to the upcoming fight is to let Bastila do all the work while you run away from Brejik. Bastila is invincible in this particular fight, whereas you–especially if you haven’t levelled up–are easy meat for Brejik. To make matters worse, Brejik is wearing equipment that reduces melee damage. I recommend keeping the podium between yourself and Brejik if at all possible. This is one of the rare fights in Knights of the Old Republic that is easier with blasters.

    If you agree to work for the Vulkars, you have to go back to the Bek base, fight your way to Gadon’s panic room, and then kill him. Most of the Beks are push-overs, but Gadon is kind of a melee monster. His panic room is small, too, so grenades aren’t a viable strategy. If you manage to beat him you get . . . a belt that gives +1 to STR. That’s it. Then you have to do the swoop race for the Vulkars pretty much exactly as you would have for the Beks, including the fight with Brejik. So have fun with that.

    I never take Carth with me when I’m being evil, so I don’t know if he’d prevent you from working with the Vulkars. Frankly, until I saw these videos, I didn’t know that there were situations where Carth could prevent you from taking the pyscho-evil option. That’s actually one of the reasons I like Knights of the Old Republic. The game’s over ten years old and I’ve played it so many times but it still manages the occasional surprise.

    1. Annikai says:

      Carth won’t stop you, which is odd because it is one of the more evil things you could do on Taris in my opinion.

    2. djw says:

      Run away, throw grenades, win.

      1. MichaelGC says:

        Yeah, I had an odd time with this fight. The first time, I went down in one hit after about 8 seconds. So, got my game-face on, reloaded, switched to pausing after every combat round, and started throwing on as many buffs as I could as efficiently as possible. I was about halfway through the animation for the third of these – still otherwise rooted to the spot – when Bastila dropped the last of our foes and figuratively stood there with a raised eyebrow, digging out bits of Vulkar with a toothpick.

        So, when she started up with the whole “I saved you,” thing, I was actually disinclined to disagree! :D

  15. el_b says:

    “man that race announcer is really dedicated to his job. its been over for ten hours and he hasnt left his control console yet!”

  16. Hermocrates says:

    That was a marvelous Mission rendition!

    1. Hal says:

      If she abandons you, it’d be a Mission sedition!

      1. el_b says:

        shes too light side to leave without mission permission

        1. Hal says:

          Well she doesn’t have to settle for all this Mission derision!

        2. SlothfulCobra says:

          I think she might. I have a Mission suspicion.

          1. Falterfire says:

            I heard she had a bad case of Rakghoul-ism before it went into Mission remission. Leaving that out would be a bit of a Mission omission.

            1. Ivellius says:

              Guys, doesn’t using her to accomplish a goal mean it’s a sub-Mission?

              1. MichaelGC says:

                We’d rightly face perdition absent Mission’s manumission.

            2. Hal says:

              That sounds like a terrible Mission condition.

    2. Syal says:

      I get the feeling these jokes are going to keep showing up.

      Call it a Mission Premonition.

    3. SlothfulCobra says:

      If only she could split apart into two copies of herself. I am wishin’ for some Mission fission.

      1. tmtvl says:

        Now I’m getting hungry for some fission chips.

  17. FuzzyWasHe? says:

    Every day I pray for the sweet release of death to free me from these horrible puns, but every day my prayers go unanswered.

  18. Zombie says:

    I think the reason most people (including myself) hate Taris in this game is because its just a whole lot of busy work that just ends. Like, if you cut out the whole swoop bike gang thing and just put Bastila in the Sith base, would we really miss anything? Would it really be so bad?

    I like how he waited until THE DAY BEFORE THE BIKE RACE to get the swoop bike engine back. Like, NO ONE ELSE wanted to do this? Or he couldn’t order someone to do it?

    “I’m just going to throw you into the thick of something you’ve never done before, and not even let you practice racing on a swoop bike. I’m confident you can race on something that you’ve never even tried to ride before. I’ve got a good feeling about you.”

    1. Hal says:

      Makes me wonder whether Taris was done first or last. Did they do Taris first, thinking it to be reasonable length, then realized it was too much and made all the other planets shorter? Did they make all of the other planets, realized they needed more content to fill out the game, so they just extended the duration of events on Taris? Did stuff from other planets get shifted to Taris because it fit thematically without regard for the length of the section?

      Anyhow, everyone has a theory on how to shorten Taris. I’d leave out the Undercity entirely. The slavers who kidnap Zaalbar are the Vulkars; you help rescue him there, find Bastila at the same time, then take on the Sith Base for Canderous.

      Heck, you could shorten it even more. The Sith have Bastila in their base instead. The Vulkars take Zaalbar, so Canderous offers you a deal: Go to the base for the codes, and he’ll get you Zaalbar back. No Undercity, no sewers, no gang bases, no swoop racing.

      1. Zombie says:

        I don’t know if they did it first or last, but it just feels so out of place with the other planets. Like, most of the other planets are maybe, what, 3 or so hours? We’re already at around 4 hours of Taris, and we’re a little over halfway done. We still have two more bases to fight through, plus two or three more boss fights.

        Reading the end of Shamus’ post, maybe its so long because we can’t ever come back to this planet, unlike every other planet in game. Maybe the devs wanted to make sure we had an opportunity to see everything they’d made?

    2. evilmrhenry says:

      Maybe he put a bunch of credits on you losing?

      1. MrGuy says:

        Can you bet against yourself, then take a dive for dark side points?

        Or are you only allowed to take a dive when you’re doing it to be a dick, and not for money?

  19. Slothfulcobra says:

    The quick save key for this game is f4, and the terrifying thing is that if you use f5 (which you might, seeing how quick save has mysteriously migrated towards the right in recent years) you quick load, immediately losing all progress.

    1. Josh says:

      You can rebind the quick-save/load keys. Currently I have them bound to F5 and F12.

      1. Daemian Lucifer says:

        What?Thats crazy!Dont you want both buttons to be right next to each other in order to be so much easier to confuse?

      2. Ledel says:

        Too bad Campster still hasn’t worked out a way to rebind keys for his recordings of SW. I’m just waiting for the episode where the “press to talk” key is also bound to throwing a grenade for a game. “Yeah, this narrow hallway really supports the main story by-Crapcrapcrap run away!”

        1. Hermocrates says:

          “…so unfortunately, I can only talk while Paying Respects.”

    2. Humanoid says:

      Great, one day I might have a legitimate excuse to hit the Scroll Lock key.

  20. Jake Lloyd says:

    Yeah, like that joke hasn’t been made a hundred times already.

    -edit- Good thing youre comment has an edit button, because I didn’t watch the whole episode. Ouch guys.

  21. Daemian Lucifer says:

    All that mission banter reminds me of this.Except it all makes sense in that comic.

  22. Andrew says:

    Wow 10 Episodes in, and you’re not even off Taris? This will be a 40 Episode season then?

    1. Josh says:

      Taris is loooooooooooooong

      1. Daemian Lucifer says:

        How many sids is it long though?

        1. Sleeping Dragon says:

          In this case don’t you mean how many siths?

        2. Atarlost says:

          Well, I think the Sid add was about preschool education so he’s probably a five year old.

          Taris is three and a half Sids long.

    2. Corsair says:

      Unless they’re able to blow through the other planets in 5 episodes (doubt it) this is going to be the longest season of Spoiler Warning. We’ve got the rest of Taris – the Sith Base and Davik’s Lair – plus Kashyyyk, Manaan, Korriban, Tatooine, Leviathan, The Unknown World, and the Finale. It’ll be at least 50, maybe 60 episodes.

      1. djw says:

        I think that Taris is longer than the starmap planets. Also, Regina will be fully leveled up on Dantooine, so enemies will die faster.

        1. Sleeping Dragon says:

          Also, they will probably start rushing through stuff in later parts of the game. Also also, knowing Josh he will use every broken trick in the book. Also also also remember that in those early seasons some episodes were an hour long.

  23. Will Riker says:

    “This entire quest is a stupid, irritating, horribly contrived slog that clogs up the story right when things need to get moving. For the purposes of the plot, the writers ought to get us to Dantooine as fast as possible so we can introduce the actual main elements of this story. There's lots of time later for arena fights, swoop-bike racing, and gang politics. But of course you can't come back to this place once you leave.”

    You know I bet this is a big reason why Taris is so long. They were afraid that you’d miss something and wouldn’t be able to come back so they made Taris so damn long.

    1. Hector says:

      Half the Taris stuff could have been moved to be AFTER Dantooine. It would be a nice change (it’s not story-required, but lets you do some fun stuff, you can have a few character comments without much. And it would mostly involve changing some skyboxes and adding some “blowed-up” decals. It would also give the players a reason to think about the consequences of their actions in the context of the game. It also would let the characters get a different view on some of the Sith, now that the city is in ruins and people are struggling to survive, with even the surviving troops basically abandoned.

      It wouldn’t be too hard to introduce a couple optional quests to take you into the Sith military base or the Vulkar or Bek hideouts. The UnderCity could be basically left alone, with a few smallish sidequests or whatever. I mean, we all know players are going to explore almost everywhere and harvest every scrap of xp, loot, and miniquest. May as well use it.

  24. Blackbird71 says:

    It’s been a long time since I’ve played KotOR, but I distinctly remember the swoop race to be the single most annoying and frustrating part of the entire game. If I’m playing an RPG; don’t lock the plot behind a reflex-based minigame!

    1. Atarlost says:

      I had the same feeling, but the Taris swoop race was so rigged it wasn’t what brought it on. I hated the gunnery minigame.

  25. I wonder if the swoop race was put in because of Episode I ?

    Didn’t somebody topside say they think they saw a escape pod end up in the under city?
    So Bastilla could have been captured way down there by the gangs or whatnot.
    You’d still have to rescue her, maybe sneak in the back entrance etc.

    It would have been interesting if Davik (that’s his name) that has the Ebony Hawk also had Bastilla locked up in a cage and was awaiting the imperial to pick her up for a nice reward.

    1. guy says:

      Swoop racing actually has a venerable history in the EU.

  26. Joe says:

    Out of commission?

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