Arkham Asylum EP5: Batass

By Shamus
on Jun 18, 2015
Filed under:
Spoiler Warning


Link (YouTube)

We’re not even going to get into the blasphemy that Mumbles was spouting about Spiderman being a bigger bully than Batman. I’m just going to assume she’s talking about some newer incarnation of Peter Parker. MY Parker was a college guy trying to balance his obligations at school, a girlfriend, paying his bills, his aging aunt, and his part-time job, while also being seemingly the only superhero in a New York infested with Electro, Rhino, Green Goblin, and Dr. Octopus. Nowadays I suppose he’s hanging out with billionaires, fighting galactic horrors in a city brimming with cross-overs, recovered from death half a dozen times and retired and un-retired another half dozen. He might even be dating a supermodel or something. The beleaguered Peter that used quips and one-liners to mask his pain and anxiety is a relic of a bygone era.

Anyway. Let’s talk about this episode…

This Bane fight is a complete mess. Bane throws you though a wall into a boiler room with no doors, where Joker already has guys waiting on the “balcony”, waiting to jump down into the fight. Once you win, the ceiling collapses for no reason, you Bat-claw up to the ceilingPossibly leaving a half-dozen mooks to die!, then emerge from a manhole to find Gordon has beat you there. And then Bane – who should be fifty feet below you under a mountain of bricks – bursts out of the wall like the Kool-Aid man. Then Batman blindsides him with the Batmobile and knocks them into the water, even though the Batmobile wasn’t pointed in the right direction and the water was both too far and in the wrong direction for this to work.

See, I thought this game was based on the Animated Batman, but here I think they took a page from Animaniacs. This is goofy loony crazypants moon logic.

This is something that you can sort of get away with in a cartoon. We can always imagine there are other details to the scene that the camera never shows us. We’re never totally sure of where all the elements are in relation to each other, so when the Batmobile travels in a stright line from parking spot, to Bane, to the water, we just assume that makes sense. But this is a world where the audience can control the camera, and we can see this cutscene is a geographic mess.

In the fight, the game doesn’t make it clear what you’re supposed to be doing. It’s a lame repeating pattern fight, the mooks only obscure what you need to be watching for, the geography makes no damn sense, and you’ll spend more time fighting the camera than fighting Bane. It’s like a crappy, unpolished version of the fights Ocarina of Time was doing back in 1998.

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Footnotes:

[1] Possibly leaving a half-dozen mooks to die!



202020207There are now 87 comments. Almost a hundred!

From the Archives:

  1. Merzendi says:

    Wait, are you playing Batman or Alan Wake?

  2. Daemian Lucifer says:

    Nevermind.

  3. Bropocalypse says:

    I was under the impression the ceiling collapsed because Bane was ripping apart those columns.

    Dubious scene logic aside, I think it’s interesting how this game has fairly campy moments in what is ostensibly a dark setting but gets away with it. Is it because of the presence of the Joker, or does it “own” the campiness in such a way that it doesn’t clash with the grim yet somnolent surroundings?

    • Torsten says:

      Batman has always had a campy undertone. It is the Dark Knight comics and films that seem more an exception, but because they are so popular people think that dark and gritty is the way Batman is.

      Also the camp in the game is not 1960’s TV- series camp but rather Joel Schumachers films style, especially the visuals with color palette of dark and deep shadows and splashes of neon colors.

    • Wide And Nerdy says:

      Sometimes mixing the two makes your brights brighter and your darks darker. It can make something unsettling even moreso.

  4. Henson says:

    Yikes, I’ve never seen so much rolling in Batman as I did during that boss fight. Makes me think I’m watching you play The Witcher 2.

    • James Bennett says:

      The funny thing is, in most of the other fights Josh should be rolling quite a bit more. You can do a dodge roll during a fight to keep your combo meter going. So long as you don’t dodge roll twice in a row, you won’t lose your combo.

      The other trick to building up large combos in this game is that you can wait quite a bit between attacks without losing your combo. The way to do these fights is to throw a punch, wait to see if someone is attacking you. If they are counter (or dodge, if they’re using a knife). If they’re not, then attack again. If you’re not sure, do another dodge to create space and by yourself some time. After a dodge you’re usually safe to attack (or use the cape, if there are knife guys around).

      Of course, you can get through the game without mastering the combat system. I only mastered it so I could beat the challenge rooms. There’s one challenge room where you have like a forty five second clock and you have to take down a bunch of guys. The only way to beat that room is by mastering the combo system and doing a lot of throws (to toss people over the edge) and instant takedowns.

  5. Bruno M. Torres says:

    The big mistake they made with Spiderman was making him a A-list hero. Of course he’s the Marvel’s biggest BOOK, but he’s suposed to be this C-lister guy doing street-level crime-fighting. That was always the joke. Now it’s gone.

  6. IFS says:

    I actually love the Scarecrow sections, but more for the mind bending nightmare sequences that precede the platforming bits than the platforming stuff itself. I guess I find the platforming stuff acceptable, if mediocre, but I love it when games play with reality like the Scarecrow sections do and not very many games seem to try such tricks on the player. (Metal Gear Solid is one series that seems to do it fairly often, but other than that I can’t think of much).

    • Benjamin Hilton says:

      Scarecrow in this game does represent one of the scenarios where the player is ahead of Batman. The next section where Bats gets gassed it’s possible for the player to see the gas venting in before there are any effects. So Batman is just walking along and I’m just immediately like “Fuck Scarecrow gas.”

    • AileTheAlien says:

      Would have been scarier if the mind-bendy sequence was like, less crazy-land, and more you-don’t-know-what’s-real. Like, you do a level in a map that looks very similar to what you’ve been doing so far, but with certain terrain things out of place. Twisty hallways every once in a while, or reverse gravity like an M C Escher painting.

      Maybe the mooks you fight randomly look like regular nurses in mook clothing. Some look like mooks in nurse clothing. Some look like their regular selves, and everyone is randomly attacking everyone else. You don’t know who you’re attacking, who’s even real, and if you’re killing innocents or not. Do non-violent takedowns, and it slows you down, meaning the people just kill each other.

      Not sure how that fits in with the canon of Scarecrow, but it seems like the best way to scare a dude who goes around trying to save the innocent, and even save the bad guys.

    • Thomas says:

      This is why I hate the platforming segments:

      The scale and perspective is wrong. Zooming out like that and having a tiny Batman run an assault course avoiding Scarecrow doesn’t make Scarecrow feel big and scary, it makes the level itself feel small and game-y. It breaks your attachment to the character.

      Imagine what it would have been like if it was played from the same camera angle as the rest of the game – the world being ripped up around you, a twenty foot scarecrow searching for you with his searchlight gaze. When you duck behind a wall to hide from him, it makes it hard to see where Scarecrow is looking and you don’t feel safe.

      As it is in the platforming segments you don’t feel like you’re being Batman, you feel like you’re watching Batman. And then when you add in all the die-and-repeat…

      • MrGuy says:

        It’s also yet another thing that plays like crap on a mouse/keyboard. The camera is fixed, but in a lot of segments it’s not perpendicular or parallel to the direction you’re going. The “correct” path is to run at an angle, which you simply can’t do with the keyboard. So you do two steps forward one to the side now forward again like a moron.

        Throwing their poor control design for the game in your face isn’t “challenging,” it’s drawing a big circle around your design flaws…

    • Sleeping Dragon says:

      I liked the bits where the gas was messing up with Batman (and to an extent the player) but I did not care for the platforming part. There was nothing scary (and not just for the player, I’m sure Batman has greater nightmares than giant Scarecrow and skellymans) or actually clever about it and it felt too much like your archetypal video game level.

      • Christopher says:

        It’s gonna be interesting to see what he does in Arkham Knight. I’m speculating that the titular Knight is something Scarecrow has cooked up to reflect Batman’s fears, so that the headmessing will be a bit more subtle than American’s McGee’s Alice-like environments. At least, I’m hoping it will be.

    • Macfeast says:

      I liked the morgue bit in particular. First time through the game, I stayed in the morgue for a few minutes during the “Get out of here”-bit, expecting something to happen. I found it quite suspenseful, and I could never tell if that movement I caught from just behind some pillar was actually just a freezer door closing, or if there was someone else in there with me, and I was on the opposite side of a predator encounter.

  7. silver Harloe says:

    I like how as Batman descends the super-secret passage to his super-secret backup Batcave that even Oracle is surprised to discover exists…
    …he finds a Riddler trophy.

  8. If nothing else, that’s a far better-looking Bane than the one in the latest Batman movie.

    Even though the flexi-straws on this Bane were prominent for game purposes, they look far better than they do on his face.

  9. Daemian Lucifer says:

    Will Josh ever manage to get up to x8?Taking all bets!

    • Viktor says:

      I think I saw an X11 in the fight right after Bane. It was gone fast, though.

      • Daemian Lucifer says:

        Yeah,I should stop posting this before I watch the whole episode.

        • Ivan says:

          I think this the first episode that he’s successfully managed to counter. He’s making progress!

          If you wanna take bets though, how long do you think before he learns to do a take-down during combat?

          • MichaelGC says:

            I was pretty impressed with Cuftbat’s improvisation of quickfire explosive gel; a whole game early. Well, I say ‘quickfire’ – ‘slowfire’ would I guess be slightly more accurate.

          • James Bennett says:

            Are you talking about the instant take downs? Because I don’t think he’s unlocked those yet.

            If you’re talking about the ground take downs, in my experience it’s usually a mistake to try and pull one of those off in the middle of a brawl. They’re slow and you run the risk of a random mook punching batman in the back, thus interrupting the take down and breaking the combo.

  10. ChristopherT says:

    When it comes to that picture of the overly tattooed Joker, I just don’t like it. I made one comment on another site about it, and that’s it, “Joker’s looking pretty fly, for a white guy.” Because that’s all that image makes me think of. It’s not that that picture has a tattoo or two, it’s that he has so many tattoos, one of a large smile, one with Damaged across his head, two sets of multiple HA HA’s, The J under his eye, the grill, the JOKER (or whatever) across his stomach, and then there’s still more – ones on his side I cannot remember, another one or two on his chest. And it doesn’t feel like modern day to me anyways, I’ve never been part of the “cool” or style scene, so I could be wrong, but I thought the more cool thing now a days is/have been multiple piercings, some tattoos, gauges, maybe a split tongue, and maybe more piercings? That Joker seems too vanilla “cool”. In conclusion, that our subject may not have a clue, he may not have style, but everything he lacks, he makes up in denial.

    However, I agree completely that part of the Joker is that he tries really hard. Just read Mad Love, most of his time in that story is spent agonizing over his next plan. I just don’t think that should cross over to his appearance that heavily.

    • Akett says:

      There’s another picture I like which I don’t know if it’s an official follow up or if it’s fan art (the latter is more likely) where it’s shown that Harley is the tattoo artist and she’s giving him a tramp stamp that says Puddin. It changes the context in a fun way.

      • ChristopherT says:

        Yeah, I’ve seen that. It’s part cute, but I also find it odd for the pairing. Harley usually being a punching bag for Joker and all. But, yeah, it…brought a smile to my face.

        Though, not as much as the fanart some lovely genius did of Ben Affleck with Batman tattoos, that one had me laughing for a while.

        • Akett says:

          I just did a google search, and there’s a couple of those, they’re pretty great.

          As for the thing about Harley being Joker’s punching bag, when I’d first seen the pic someone brought the punching bag thing up and someone else said it helped to think of the pic as how Harley sees the Joker, as someone who cares about her. Doesn’t make it less screwed up, but it helps a bit.

  11. Hector says:

    One major issue with the Arkham series is its irritating tendency to throw idiot mooks at you while you’re in a bossfight. Characters like Bane do not need thugs and grunts to make the fight awesome. While it can be criticized for many things, the Deathstroke fight in Origins is an example of a tightly-constructed, thug-free battle that tests the player. (It also introduces and requires unique mechanics that catch players off-guard, especially as the pop-ups which explain how to fight this guy tend to appear only *after* he’s done kicking you in the teeth.) It’s not the best-done example, but it shows that you could work with the mechanic set to craft a tense battle without Random Goon #172 getting in the way.

    • Bropocalypse says:

      It’s probably because they knew the boss fights weren’t very good on their own so they tried spicing them up with the much better mook fighting.

    • Ivan says:

      Actually I really didn’t like the deathstroke fight. It just felt like one giant QTE, I didn’t feel like I was doing anything, just pressing the buttons to make the fight end. That feeling kinda stuck with me for most of the game too and almost ruined it for me until I sat down and thought about the strategy required to beat a bunch of mooks. Honestly there isn’t a great deal of strategy, I mean armor guy can only be taken down this way, stun batons require you to do this move, there is some overlap but not in a very meaningful way, it’s really just a skill check. The real tactics are in your positioning, when you use a combo on a takedown, who you use it on, how to build up that combo and keeping dudes away from guns and other weapons.

    • Darren says:

      Origins is really underrated (but still flawed). The Deathstroke fight is great. It’s basically just the QTE-infused combat from the rest of the series–you press Y whenever an icon pops up, that’s called a Quick Time Event–ramped up to maximum. It feels like Batman being pushed to his limit because it’s the combat system pushed to its limit.

  12. Sicod says:

    If Mumbles thinks Spider-Man doesn’t try to save villians she should look at his actual track record. How about the Molten Man’s long stretch on the side of the angels or numerous attempts, some successful, to turn Harry Osborn good? Sandman was reformed for years, the Prowler, Rocket Racer, and Will 0’Wisp. Heck they formed a team entirely out of reformed Spider-Man villians! Does Batman have an entire team of heroes made of out of people he reformed?

    How about Spidey’s role in Spider-Man and the X-men (issue 6 is one of my favorite Spider-Man stories)? He was sent in by Wolverine to find a mole on the team, a team of people most likely to go bad. As their special instructor he turns them into awesome students and full on superheroes who go on patrol with him. Horny teenagers would literally skip making out to go on patrol with Spider-man by the end of the six issue mini-series. Choice quotes “Maybe that wouldn’t have happened if someone had taught us about responsibility before then.” “Even heroes need saving. Who taught you that? Professor S. Who is Professor S?”

    Spider-man, who learned an arguably harder lesson than Batman about loss because he could have prevented his.

    • Mumbles says:

      I know, I know. Mostly I was trolling Shamus. I named my own cat after Spidey (because my cat is an asshole). Honestly, every time I pick up a Spidey comic and I read his “banter” I always feel an overwhelming sense of UGH THIS GUY. If I was a villain, I’d be really annoyed with him. I’d never feel the urge to reform because UGH THIS GUY THINKS HE’S SO COOL. If I was an Avenger, I’d be like “sssh tiny spider ssshh.”

      I can’t stand the way he talks most of the time and the few issues I really enjoyed of Spidey were when he was a lot older. For example, I loved the time he took over as a sub at Avengers Academy. I was like oh, Pete’s not so bad.

      Point is, some people can like things and personalities and other people won’t. That’s just how it ggooess.

      • Certain superheroes are bound to the era that spawned them.
        If their behavior define them (Spidey being a smartass) then that is a holdover of that era.

        It’s possible that Spiderman can’t carry over to modern times without majorly re-writing his character.

        They could go the the super campy/cartoony route (opposite of the direction they took batman).

        Then again, they might end up with a half-assed Deadpool-like character instead if going that route.
        So Spidey is kinda between a rock and a hard place (squish).

        Maybe the solution “would” be to go darker with Spiderman? Just drop the old quick banter/jokes. And play more to the creepyness that spiders tend to have.

        In theory they could go way darker than they ever could with Batman. (If they go too dark with Batman you end up in Punisher territory).

        But with Spiderman… Getting snared in webs. Never seeing him. Getting cookooned. Waking up dangling from the top of buildings.
        Maybe let Spiderman have glowing eyes (part of his suit?) just to scare bad guys some more.
        And maybe make him a bit more feral when he is spiderman (acting more like a spider).
        And when as Peter Parker he is just this nice classic Peter Parker. Almost sort of a split personality, with Spiderman being his dark side.

        And ditch the red/blue and go with leathery black with red accents like this has https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latrodectus

        Image #3 here is more along the lines I’m thinking (lacks glowing eyes though) http://moviepilot.com/posts/2015/06/01/the-6-coolest-alternate-superhero-suits-ever-3269721

        Imagine being trapped in a giant sticky web, unable to move, then you feel the web move slightly and in the dark are suddenly two red glowing eyes.

        • Mumbles says:

          They did something like this with Superior Spider-Man where Doc Oc takes over his body and is generally a terrifying/super jackass version of Spidey. He keeps the mechanical arms and overruns the city with spider bots. I kind of loved it? But every spidey fan I know HATED it, lol.

          • Daemian Lucifer says:

            I may be wrong,but coult that be because most spidey fans(and writers) dont like change?

            • Mumbles says:

              Yeah, I think that was a big part of it.

              • Christopher says:

                I don’t think Spider-Man is a problem that needs solving. Really liked Superior Spider-Man, mind, and I’m a fan of Spider-Man. Octopus is an arrogant ass, obviously, but he’s also trying to do better and be a better superhero than Spider-Man was and failing miserably because of who he really is. Liked having Peter hang around like his little good conscience. That struggle’s not the only reason I liked it, Dr. Octopus is super entertaining as a proactive jerk hero and his supporting cast is good for instance. Sort of fell off of Spider-Man once Peter got his body back, honestly.

            • Sleeping Dragon says:

              It’s why I gave up on these long running superhero comics, they tend to not go anywhere in particular. The individual stories may be interesting but, say, Spider-Man started as a geek powerfantasy with a few aesops thrown in for good measure (be responsible, respect your elders, don’t smoke) then they want him to tackle Big Issues and answer Big Questions but they don’t want to change that core identity cause that’s what Spider-Man is.

              • Ed says:

                The secret to spider-man (though, of course, some writers miss this entirely) is that Spider-man is a geek power fantasy, yes, but how spider-man is a character who is designed to NOT be a power fantasy. Let me explain. Yes, peter loves swinging around saving people as spider-man, and there is a clear power fantasy there. But having that power doesn’t actually make his life easier in any way. “With great power, comes great responsibility”. Because of that, Peter needs to be spider-man. It’s not a choice, its a curse. His code prevents him from ever taking a night off, or taking it easy, as spider-man. So Peter Parker will never get satisfaction (long-term) from his life because his need to be spider-man constantly gets in the way. He has the cake, but he can never eat it.

            • Bloodsquirrel says:

              From what I read, a big part of it was that Marvel (In their typical fuck-you attitude toward their audience) insisted that Doc Oc was going to be the new Spider-man permanently and that Peter Parker was gone forever. This was after they had already killed Ultimate Peter Parker.

              People didn’t really hate the storyline as much as they hated Peter being killed off in such an obnoxious way. Because, for some reason, Marvel can’t just present these things as being temporary as everybody knows that they are anyway.

              • Ed says:

                I never got this reason. I am a Marvel comics fan, and I love how frequently they are changing things up. And If they say, “Ehh, man-thor will be back in six months” it actively sabotages whatever current story is going on. The Status Quo will reset, for a character at some point. Peter Parker was always going to come back. Its implicit, so why let that be a reason to not enjoy whatever change is happening while it is happening? Daemian Lucifer nails it a few comments up, where he says alot of spidey fans don’t like change. He’s correct, the most vocal ones do not. But Spider-man is selling better now than before.

                • Daemian Lucifer says:

                  Aside from gwen stacy and uncle ben,has anyone remained dead in the spiderverse?It was a bit silly to believe that peter would remain dead for reals this time.

            • Deadpool says:

              Probably because most people reading Spider-Man comics want the lead character to be… Spider-Man.

              I guess that makes them weird?

              • Daemian Lucifer says:

                But superhero identity for most heroes is not tied to their civilian identity.Even batman was often not bruce wayne.

                • Deadpool says:

                  And often not for long.

                  When a new character successfully takes the mantle of superhero however, it’s a character with an established fanbase and already mildly popular on his own right (Wally West for example).

                  When a random, “dark and edgy” version of a character takes over and acts completely and utterly different from the original (Jean Paul for example), the audience usually dislikes it and doesn’t last long.

                  Writing a story about a jackass with spider powers are red and blue pajamas isn’t the same thing as writing a SPIDER MAN story…

        • MrGuy says:

          Meh. They’ve taken Batman (and especially Robin) away from the “Holy Underwear, Batman!” cringeworthy dialogue and campy combat illustrations without destroying the character. I don’t see why Spidey isn’t capable of the same.

  13. Spammy says:

    All of the mindscrew elements right before a Scarecrow segment were my favorite part of Arkham Asylum and the only parts of the game that I really want to re-experience. The hallucinations are all done very well and you can kind of tell when they’re starting but the game just rolls on past the start like nothing’s wrong so you aren’t really sure what’s going on until things start getting seriously messed up.

    I kind of wish more games would throw in little segments of mindscrew and horror like that. Not at all commonly, but there enough to be kind of spooky and really memorable. Like an extended hallucination in an FPS or some really messed up conversations in an RPG or a server option which makes for one-in-a-million Slenderman type stuff to happen on a multiplayer survival game.

    EDIT: Oh and until he tried to backstab you I really liked Bane in Arkham City.

    • Benjamin Hilton says:

      I agree with the Edit. Bane in Arkham city was another example of “oh hey I am actually working with a baddie for a good reason, this is interesannnnd now we’re fighting.

  14. crossbrainedfool says:

    That’s interesting. I took one or two tries on each part of the Scarecrow sequences, max – the only exception being the final one, with the close quarters brawl took me a bit (there’s a well timed autosave, so it’s not a big deal). I found them to be well paced save wise, and yes they lose a bit of impact the nth time round.

    I also didn’t find the mechanic confusing at all – if the light from Scarecrow’s eyes shines on you, you’re fucked. After that it’s just observation and pattern recognition. If you try to brute force it, you’ll figure it out eventually, but it rewards a cautious, observation approach (Not exactly Josh’s forte).

    One thing that someone pointed out to me was that Batman approaches the Scarecrow sequences in a very in character way – stealth, cunning, and the use of a gadget (Although a symbolic one – I like the use of the Batsignal as a banishing light).

    As for the boss battle – I think it works well as a recurring mini-boss (Titan mooks) and is alright for Bain, but both was a bit much. It’s also confusing that two mechanically similar foes (Bain, Titan Mooks) play by slightly different rules (and not just “Bain throws chunks of wall, Titan guys throw dudes who happen to be laying around”). Bain needs to bullfought twice and then smacked, the Titan dudes just need one, etc.

  15. The Snide Sniper says:

    I am deeply disappointed that the end montage does not include Josh jumping through Bane.

  16. Ledel says:

    Only knock outs in this episode folks. Looks like Josh held himself back some today.

    Reginald CuftBat’s current body count:

    K.O.ed: 71

    Maimed: 6

    Killed: 6

    Some other notes: These are all from direct results of Josh’s actions as Batman. The mooks that get knocked out by Bane do not count towards the totals. Also, named villains get plot armor. Even if Josh take’s them out by destroying an entire building on top of them, it will only count as a K.O. So even with Bane being knocked unconscious, trapped under the batmobile, underwater, he will be just fine later (and we in fact see him just fine in the next game).

    • McNutcase says:

      I’d count the guys being hyper-extended and crotch-punched as maims, personally. That particular area is very fragile anatomy.

      • Ledel says:

        I honestly considered both of those for a while, and decided that “maims” should be more along the lines of major spinal/brain damage or something that looks like they will never be able to walk again.

        Most of the big knock outs this episode were blows to the body or the blows to the head didn’t quite make full, direct contact. My complete lack of real medical training leads me to believe these men will be back up and mooking it up in a week or two, tops.

        As for hyper-extension, it’s hard to dislocate someone’s limbs in such a way that they won’t recover from it fairly easily once it is relocated back into it’s socket. Most of the human body is pretty stretchy, if very painful to do so.

        • McNutcase says:

          Let me clarify why I consider the crotch-punches maiming.

          I once took a solid kick to the perineum. It still affects what I can do. Twenty years later.

          An injury that stays with you for that long counts as maiming, to me.

          • Ledel says:

            Yeah, but if I start using what would cause permanent damage then 90% of these guys would be either maimed or dead. It’s been shown that you can’t knock someone out for more than a couple of seconds without causing brain damage. If I started considering this then it would ruin the image of Batman that I have for my count.

            I honestly believe that Bats is trying his best not to permanently damage these people, just that sometimes he gets carried away in trying to keep them all off of him and takes it a bit too far occasionally. That combined with them sometimes taking hits from the environment at high speeds can cause major damage to them.

  17. Benjamin Hilton says:

    Early in the series the crew talked about how they really enjoyed the sense that this was just another day on the job for Batman. In the scene where you rescue Gordon I got the same sense. Gordon isn’t even remotely surprised by Batman dropping in through the ceiling. He’s seen it before, and he’ll see it again. It says allot about Gordon and Batman’s history and relationship.

  18. Ledel says:

    It really is bad that they were only able to come up with one kind of boss fight. From what I remember, though, is that they were paced fairly well throughout the game that they didn’t feel overused. Also, with all of the other combats of the game moving along so fast, it does force you to change your playstyle to slow down a work away at the big guys. They do feel like they are a significant step up from the basic mook you mow down in seconds.

    For a game that did almost everything else so right, to have a complaint of “the boss fights were mediocre” isn’t that bad. It could have been a lot worse, it could have been tonally wrong for the setting like the boss fights in Human Revolution.

    • McNutcase says:

      You say that, but Killer Croc counts as a boss fight to me, and it was totally different. Horrible, terrible, no-good design, but certainly different. I’m fully expecting a fast-forward sequence when Josh gets that far.

      For that matter, Poison Ivy is a distinctly different boss fight. In fact, the only boss fights that are all the same are the ones that have every reason to be the same because story.

      • Ledel says:

        The Poison Ivy fight still boils down to: Throw batarangs at big thing while dodging it’s attacks, mooks come in, fight mooks while continuing to use batarangs.

        The Croc encounter was definitely a change of pace forcing you to slow down and try to be stealthy. Yet, again, big guy charges you, throw batarang at head, you’re safe for a bit. This works for Croc in that the mechanics for it are established early, and that is half of Croc’s character is being a big tank that charges straight at you. It doesn’t work when this is how everyone treats Batman.

      • Lachlan the Mad says:

        As I’ve already said in several of these threads, the Poison Ivy fight is basically Queen Gohma. She belongs in a Nintendo game, not a Batman game.

        • Naota says:

          Having played that fight and ranked it third worst on my decades-long list of utterly reviled video game boss battles, I can confirm that not only should this incarnation of Ivy not be in a Batman game – she should never again be allowed as a boss in any game full stop. Under any circumstances.

          There’s just no excuse for a boss that spends 90% of the battle immune to harm, decides completely independent of player action when it is vulnerable, can’t be harmed by standard attacks even then, randomly shifts the playable area, and has a constant replenishing horde of amped-up super minions present during the stage where you’re supposed to hurt it. The minions alone are easily capable of taking you out of the fight for long enough that you’ll miss the narrow window in which you can make progress, and you just have to pray they’re not around when that time comes. Fight them and you miss your chance; don’t fight them and they’ll make you miss your chance.

          This Ivy battle was literally designed by chimpanzees seeking to mentally terrorize the human race.

          • Lachlan the Mad says:

            Now that you mention it, the biggest problem I have with the Ivy fight is one particular sentence from your beautiful rant; she decides, completely independent of player action, when she is vulnerable. At least with your average Legend of Zelda boss its vulnerable window is usually either (a) something you create by exploiting the environment or (b) something you take advantage of during its attack sequence (either when it’s winding up or when it’s whiffed). The only exception I could find on a quick scroll on the Zelda Wiki through the lists of bosses from Zelda games I’ve played is Twinrova from Ocarina of Time, who would be indestructible if one of the two sisters had slept in and not showed up for the boss fight.

            By contrast, Poison Ivy’s vulnerable point is when she opens up her own almost-indestructible shell to laugh at you. If she could control her own hubris, or laugh at you with the shell still in place (she can talk when it’s closed), she would win. That really doesn’t make Batman look smart, except by comparison; it just makes Ivy look bloody stupid.

  19. Slothfulcobra says:

    Spiderman basically tries to be a mean girl from high school trying to throw clever insults until one sticks, and then when they freak out and lose their composure, he can just take them down and look cool.

    It was one thing when he was just a loser in high school with bills to pay and a dying aunt and being Spiderman was his only escape where he could enjoy success, but these days Peter Parker is doing great, flush with success that he didn’t really earn. Most of the problems he has now, he causes himself directly sabotaging his own life, chiefly by demanding that everyone he knows trust him, while refusing to trust anybody else.

    • Ed says:

      No offense man, but I do wonder if you have read recent spider-man stuff. While the jokes are there to enrage his opponents, often the jokes are just as much Peter (or Miles) using them as a coping device to not freak out when fighting say, Kraven the Hunter. Peter Parker’s life still sucks, right now he’s failing to run a company and be spider-man and manage all his obligations. And he can never manage it, because he’s unwilling to compromise either part of his life.

  20. Phantos says:

    I still say the Bane/Batman dialogue in this game isn’t nearly as stupid as in Rises.

  21. Thanatos Crows says:

    Ironically my pc completely froze after clicking play. That segment must be cursed

  22. Grudgeal says:

    Speaking of segments that keep me from replaying the game… The forced stealth segment with Harley (and the one later in the aviary). This one isn’t so bad once you realize none of the mooks will see you KO the others provided you do them in the right order, but it’s still a “one single mistake and you’re DEAD” deal that I just don’t like.

  23. John Law says:

    It’s funny that Mumbles mentioned not finishing this game, because I was never able to finish either. Though in that case, it was because the game didn’t pick up my mashing ‘A’ with the Ultra Batclaw, which is crucial to beating the final boss. Incidentally, that should tell anyone who’s unspoiled just how bad these boss fights get. Compared to them, the Bane fight comes out as one of the better ones.

    Speaking of which, this is a pretty louse incarnation of Bane. He’s got the look, but all he does is scream and smash things. I mean, the movie had problems but at least that Bane had plots.

    • Mumbles says:

      I found it pretty frustrating that they had the right look, voice and feel for Bane but all he did was be a big strong man. Oh well…

      • Zeta Kai says:

        Bane is a tough character to get right, I don’t think that we have seen a likeable version of him much, in any media. The original comic version was a gimmick in search of a character, the Batman & Robin movie version was a semi-mute goon for Uma Thurman, & the TDKR Tom Hardy version was… divisive, shall we say (personally, I think that if I had a time machine, I would go back, rewrite TDKR from scratch, & replaced Bane with the Riddler, who fit the world & its themes much better).

        I know that Bane has been around for a while now, so he’s kinda just a permanent B-list member of Batman’s rogues’ gallery, but I think that he’s never been great, so maybe we should just retire him, like they did with KGBeast, or that egg-themed a-hole from the TV show.

        • Sicod says:

          When he is not forced into Batman’s rogue gallery he can be pretty awesome. He was a fully realized character who could throw down in Gail Simone’s Secret Six. The problem with being the guy who broke Batman’s back is that he will never hit that high note fighting Batman again, so he never looks quite as tough taking on Bats as he did in his first run out the gate.

  24. Eric says:

    Since this series started, I’ve had a hankering to play through the Batman games again to prep for Arkham Knight. As someone who’s played through Asylum and City back when they came out, but has never played Origins, what order should I replay them in? Release order (Asylum -> City -> Origins)? Chronological (Origins -> Asylum -> City)?

    • MichaelGC says:

      I’m not usually this categorical, but definitely release order! – if you play Origins first, when you move on to Asylum you’ll really feel the lack of things like grappling-anywhere, quickfire batgadgets, etc. Whereas if you start with Asylum, you won’t miss the absence of those things – them not being there is only a problem if you’re used to them.

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