The Last of Us EP27: Quest For Hats

By Shamus
on Nov 28, 2014
Filed under:
Spoiler Warning


Link (YouTube)

Man, last episode I totally missed the part where two girls lift a mountain of rubble, and this episode I go on an insane rant about a totally realistic door. I was thinking of municipal breaker bars used in stuff like schools, where it’s supposed to be impossible for people to end up locked inside. However, there are indeed lots of doors that can be locked to keep people in, and if you look closely this is such a door. The vertical metal rods are basically like a really long bolt lock that goes into a little opening in the floor.

I’m off my game here. I blame it on the fact that all of this is new to me and I can’t properly watch, listen, discuss, and nitpick simultaneously. I spent the entire episode listening to half of what the cast was saying and reading half the dialog and catching other bits of dialog in audio and being completely confused.

We’re taking next week off from Spoiler Warning. (The holidays have made it so we can’t record the show.) Hopefully between now and the next time we record I can find time to watch Left Behind on YouTube so I can do my job properlyAssuming there is a “proper” way to complain about videogames. for the rest of the DLC.

Going by what we’ve seen, I’d say I like the look of Left Behind a lot more than the core game. More puzzles, more zombies, more character development, and less manshoots.

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Footnotes:

[1] Assuming there is a “proper” way to complain about videogames.



20201454 comments. It's getting crowded in here.

From the Archives:

  1. 4th Dimension says:

    Ohh electrified water. One of the stupider in game tropes. Yes water is a conductor of electricity but not as good as some metals are of course. Salty water is even better. BUT, electricity will allways look for a path of least ressistance to point of lowest potential. In practice it means the electrons will flow to the side of the contact of the cable with the water but all of them will be trying to travel the shortest distance to ground.
    Some things on the gorund might be more attractivr such as pointy pieces of armature (electrons like to concentrate in pointy things apparently), and especially building armature since it should have lowest potential since it’s buried pretty deep under the building and thus it’s basucally grounding.

    But even if el current spreads itself evenly through the water (which would “dilute” it making weaker), there is no reason for it to arc through your body if you are stepping in it or wading. And finally what makes electricity dangerous (except for some muscle spasming and heat damage due to current warming your flesh) and kills you in majority of cases is the fact that if it closes the circuit through your chest that is hearth it will interfere with control impulses sent by the brain to the harth and cause it to malfunction and stop.
    But wince you are wading, there is no reason for water to arc though your chest, and unless you have one arm in the water and a leg or an arm in it too it will most likely simply arc thorugh legs an crotch area.

    • Dave B. says:

      “…it will most likely simply arc thorugh legs an crotch area.”

      That seems like something I would want to avoid. Probably…

    • ehlijen says:

      Isn’t it (slightly) more likely that the power will heat up the water to non-hypothermia levels rather than kill you?

      • Daemian Lucifer says:

        Yes actually.If the circuit doesnt pop before that,that is.Which would be the most likely outcome.

        • 4th Dimension says:

          Yes that. If the electric net has been constructed by anyone remotely sane or competent there shouldn’t be any way for you to kill yourself using it. Modern circuit breakers are allmost instant and quite sensitive.

    • Phill says:

      Actually distilled water is an insulator as far as electricity goes (for most purposes). It can become a pretty poor conductor if it has various salts and other stuff dissolved in it (the movement of the resulting ions is what the current is in water). That’s one of the reasons why water and electricity is a dangerous combination. A human body has a much higher concentration of free ions and so conducts much better than water, so the current preferential flows through the body rather than the water in many situations; if it was a better conductor it would be less dangerous because the path of least resistance would be through the water, not the body. (The other thing that makes water dangerous is that being a liquid it seeps in everywhere and makes possible circuits between all sorts of things that would normally be insulated from each other).

      • Decius says:

        It’s safe to say that the water here has a lot of dissolved ionic compounds.

        Of course, electricity doesn’t fill an area, it has to go in a circuit. Since the generator isn’t connected to ground anywhere, a short to ground in the wire will do nothing significant.

        • guy says:

          That rather depends. Electricity goes from high voltage to low voltage and doesn’t care whether that happens to be circular. If the ground is at a lower voltage than the circuit, electricity will seek ground if the resistance is low enough.

          • Richard says:

            That’s not really true as there is no such thing as an ‘absolute’ voltage, only a difference in voltage.

            An electric current will flow if there is a potential difference higher than the breakdown voltage of the material separating the potential difference.

            Mains electricity ‘seeks ground’ because your local substation (or pole-mounted transformer) has one end (the neutral terminal) connected to Earth. (For the extreme example, a US dryer socket is Live – Neutral – Live, with 220 between Lives but only 110 to Earth)

            In this case the generator appears to be ungrounded – pretty much everything that small is ungrounded, and there’s no sign of an earthing rod – so it simply wouldn’t do that.

            Aside from that, the kind of sparks you see require much, much higher voltages than you’d get from a small European (230VAC nominal) genny, let alone a US one.

            Aside from that, US-spec mains supplies are relatively safe, a healthy human is unlikely to be significantly harmed by such a shock unless it goes directly across the heart or the head. It doesn’t even hurt all that much.
            The US decided to trade a lower risk of electrocution for a 4-fold increase in fire risk – then further increased the fire risk by poor domestic connectors and the prevalence of wooden buildings!

            One thing that I did find odd was that they were using 200-250VAC (Blue) Ceeforms in the mall, which are very common in the EU but rare in the US.
            (Wired up as widowmakers to boot.)

            But you know, video game rules aren’t the same as reality.

    • Tom says:

      Actually, I think there is one really specific condition when current can flow through you while wading – if you’re standing in or on a medium that is conductive but not as conductive as you yourself are, and if there’s a *really* big electrical potential gradient in that medium that you’re standing side-on to (the classic example is a high-tension cable striking the ground at a point right next to you, causing a brief but huge potential gradient radiating outwards from that point) then current can flow in a direction radial to that point, up one leg, across your core and down your other leg.

      • Richard says:

        Yes, this kills cows in thunderstorms.

        Do NOT lay down or lean on anything if there is a chance of lightning!
        Stay stood up, away from overhanging things like trees.

  2. Grudgeal says:

    Wow, sure is nice how Joel has access to that knife all the time, what with all the stabbing he constantly has to do.

    Also, interesting how Ellie, the supposedly immune character, is the one the zombies kill immediately in melee. Not that it doesn’t make sense, mind you, just interesting to note.

  3. Dave B. says:

    Shamus, if you’re looking for a really good Let’s Play of Left Behind, I highly recommend the one by Geop from the SA forums. I’m linking the playlist for the videos without commentary over the cutscenes, and the Left Behind videos are at the bottom of the list.

    EDIT: forgot to address this specifically to Shamus.

    • tmtvl says:

      Uh, we’re watching a really good Let’s Play of Left Behind. It’s called “Spoiler Warning”…

      • Josh says:

        Eh, that one’s mediocre at best. All those lame puns…

      • Dave B. says:

        Point taken, but the two are very different kinds of Let’s Plays, and are good in different ways. The one I linked had fairly minimal commentary and focuses on what’s happening in the game, while the Spoiler Warning crew often talk over the game and go on long digressions in their conversation.

        Maybe a walkthrough with no commentary would have been a better recommendation, but I personally find those rather dull.

    • IFS says:

      I will second Geop as a pretty awesome LPer, one of my personal favorites out there (with my favorite crews being Chip Cheezum followed by Spoiler Warning). If you’ve got plenty of time to kill Geop’s Dark Souls LP is also worth checking out.

  4. bloodsquirrel says:

    Gears of War did actually have a lot of non-quippy banter. And you could have fun by chainsawing furniture in half.

    Gears of War had way more personality than people give it credit for.

  5. hborrgg says:

    So, last episode we had Ellie digging around in a giant pile of fungus and spores. I get that she’s supposed to be immune, but is this going to cause any problems once she gets back to Joel and uses those same hands to treat his wound?

  6. Daemian Lucifer says:

    Do manboobs count?

  7. Melodious Punk (@Meodiou5Punk) says:

    I can’t blame Shamus for raging against those doors considering the dead bolts have latches on them that she didn’t try. Also if the deadbolts on your side of the door it’s probably to keep people out rather than in.

    One thing about those pallets Rutskarn didn’t pick up on: those boxes had air holes on the side like you would see on a fruit or plant box, it is highly unlikely that the contents would support the weight of Ellie let alone another pallet of stock on top of it.

    While I’m at it, in addition to generators, things that shouldn’t be used inside that people have include BBQs and those instant grills that consist of foil trays with charcoal in them (especially don’t use them on wooden tables).

    • James says:

      additionally that thing is both HUGE and FULL of things, elle should not be able to move it, let me let people in on a secret, though things ARE FUCKING HEAVY, also stacking above the back support wall (on the pallet truck) is a MASSIVE Health and Safety No No,

      3rdly, most pallet things like that do not turn like that, they might turn on one wheel to spin in spot but not like that, at least as far as the ones ive used. also its winter 20 years after anyone has moved that thing, its going to be rusted and frozen solid it will not move, at all.

      In summary, NOPE.avi

    • Tizzy says:

      Basically: don’t use inside anything that may produce carbon monoxide. You won’t even know what hit you.

  8. Daemian Lucifer says:

    Sooo,are malls in the usa really that big on electric locks?Because good old mechanical things seem way more practical to me.

    • McNutcase says:

      Surprisingly, yes, mainly because keys are a pain to keep track of, easily copied, and cost money to make. It’s cheaper to spend on an electrical lock with a keypad, give the people who need it the code, and think that’s in some way more secure than keys. Even though the thing’s still how it came set from the factory, the numbers have worn right off the keys in the code, and you gave the code to basically everyone who’s ever had a job anywhere in the mall because it’s such a pain to get someone who’s supposed to know the code every time some low-level dude needs the door opened.

      I don’t tend to have a very high opinion of American companies’ intelligence…

      • Melodious Punk (@Meodiou5Punk) says:

        Surely fire regulations would require doors that let you out without electricity though?

        • guy says:

          Generally, yes. I know you can make a mechanical lock that lets people out but not in, so I imagine most electronic locks use the same mechanism. There are also ways you could set up electromagnets to hold the doors shut and unlock in a power failure, but that’s just asking for trouble. Often that’s used for fire doors so they’ll shut when the power fails.

      • Trix2000 says:

        A well built code key-pad won’t have buttons that easily wear down. And it definitely IS more convenient than a key, especially when you realize you left said key back on your desk. :/

  9. Von Krieger says:

    Huh. So the DLC’s called Left Behind.

    And here I was thinking that Shamus was gearing up to talk trash about the downright horrible recently released movie starring Nicholas Cage, a remake of the downright horrible long ago released movie starring Kirk Cameron, adapted from the downright horrible book series known as Left Behind.

    There’s a reason that a blogger’s been going through them page by page and pointing out all the horrible things in them, and ten years in he’s only halfway through book three of like 20.

    At least the DLC will have more thought put into the post apocalyptic setting and will be better written than The Worst Books in the World.

  10. Ithilanor says:

    Interesting that Wizard of Oz survived the apocalypse. I can imagine the quarantine zones having enough power to run a projector on occasion, and it’d be worth doing so; getting a bit of entertainment would be extremely valuable after the apocalypse, when there’s not a lot to do for fun, as Rutskarn alluded to a while back.

    Shamus mentioned earlier that Ellie and Riley don’t sound a lot like girls their age (or didn’t in that conversation), but they sound pretty authentic to me. Even that conversation about the Fireflies sounded on-point; they’re treating it somewhat light-heartedly, like a private club or something, especially Riley. Their goofing around in the costume shop was great.

    I like the brick-throwing bit; it takes one of the most gamey mechanics and uses it for character-building. Of course, then they go and introduce an even more gamey mechanic with the electrified water.

  11. muelnet says:

    Usually I let Shamus general lack of knowledge of how surviving in cold actually works but it just keeps getting worse.

    Here are some simple things he gets wrong:
    1. It is better to have wet wool clothes than wet cotton clothes and getting wet doesn’t kill you. Modern synthetic outdoor wear is designed to keep you warm even when you are wet. Wool naturally has this capability. The only common cloth that doesn’t is cotton. If you are going to jump into a freezing lake one of the best things to wear is WOOL! Here’s some reference.

    2. Fire is a terrible way to keep warm. The best way to keep warm is to keep moving and eat lots of fat. Our bodies aren’t very good at absorbing heat. They are much better at creating their own heat. Fires are useful for cooking and drying stuff, but not great for warming you up.

    3. Mammalian Diving Instinct

    I blame the patently unrealistic frostfall mod. That mod is so full of pseudo-realism that people actually think that is the way outdoor survival works and it isn’t. Shamus if half of the survivalist stuff you think was right humans would never have made it this far.

    Shamus I’m sorry to be down on you but I’ve spent time doing survival stuff and every time you bring this stuff up it makes it so obvious you don’t know what you’re talking about.

    I really love your stuff; I read all your posts, I watch all the spoiler warning episodes, and listen to all the diecasts but oh my god your knowledge of what outdoor survival is like is so misinformed.

    Again I’m really sorry about being so down on you. I love your show.

    • muelnet says:

      I started writing that post before the video was over and now I’m just even more upset. For instance hypothermia takes a while to kill you. Even if that little dip that Ellie took was enough to kill her (which it wasn’t) the final stage of hypothermia before blacking out is paradoxical undressing. Frostfall is so inaccurate. Please stop using it for the basis of how surviving in cold temperatures works.

      • Shamus says:

        While I got the details wrong, the point stands that diving into freezing water in cotton clothes (she’s wearing bluejeans and a light coat, probably polyester) in this context is stupidly dangerous. She doesn’t have a good way to worm up OR dry off, which means she has no way to stop losing heat. (I’m not getting how it’s survivable as you claim. She’s already under-dressed. And she’s a small person, not a hulking man with lots of hair. Even if she survived, this would not be a trivial thing.) The fact that I was wrong about HOW she would die doesn’t change the fact that she would die.

        But you’re right that I don’t know how survival stuff works. I never even leave the house. Still, I know enough to understand that wet clothes are not something you can shrug off in sub-freezing temps.

        • Alex says:

          She didn’t dive into the water. She was immersed up to the waist for a bit, but that’s not going to be as dangerous as a Titanic situation.

        • Chamomile says:

          “She’s already under-dressed”

          This is the part that’s been bugging me the most, particularly our brief glimpse of her in what is presumably deep winter northern Utah before we cut back to early winter Michigan here. Now I don’t know much about survival in Michigan, but I did have a few survival seminar-dealies as a kid that were about here in northern Utah, mostly of the “how to survive long enough to be rescued if you get lost on a winter hike” variety, and one of the things they taught us is that an outfit that feels slightly chilly during a 15 minute walk home at 8 PM will kill your ass dead if you try to stay out all night.

      • acronix says:

        I imagine Frostfall is unrealistic in the same way First Person Shooters are unrealistic: if you get shot in reality, you’d spent some time in the hospital rather than hidding behind cover/eat a first aid kit to recover all your health. It’s unrealistic because reality would be boring. Though I will admit I don’t know if the mod -claims- to be realistic, which would be a problem.

        Anyway, your post would sound much better if you had started with “I’m quite experienced on survivalism and I’d like to point out some misconceptions that were mentioned” instead of “OMG so upset you don’t know this things I know OMG!”
        If people are wrong about something and you know the answer, correct them politely. Don’t be upset about it. Chances are they aren’t doing on purpose and are simply misinformed. No need to be passive-aggresive about their ignorance on the matter.

  12. tzeneth says:

    Fun episode but quick typo in the description underneath: you guys are “taking” next week off, not “talking” next week off I believe is what you meant to type. How does one talk next week off? Ok, now I’m thinking how to make that literal :)

  13. MichaelGC says:

    Oo, the site looks all different on mobile! Has it changed on staying-still, too? Don’t like change, as a rule, but I like this one.

    PS One small thing – I can now read spoilers. Works for me, as I don’t mind spoilers, and it’s usually a bit of a hassle deciphering them on mobile. But I imagine some might not be such big fans…

  14. Galad says:

    Completely unrelated comment here, since I’m not going to bother setting up twitter – Shamus, in response to “I wonder if there’s a way to get a listing of all (publicly available) games on (at)steam_games. Something like that would be super fun/useful.” – I believe the answer is visible when you go to the main page and click on the magnifying glass. Currently at 1-25 out of 9078.

    Also, I got myself during this sale the Valve complete pack (which includes CS:GO too, amidst the half-life goodies I’ve been meaning to try again), MTG’14, Payday2 and FTL. I’ll wait for the Christmas sale for any other purchases and oh god I am totally gonna barely make a dent in all those ‘chievements there is to ‘chieve, am I? boohoo first world problems :D

  15. BitFever says:

    I think Shamus is actually wrong about the hypothermia actually. It’s shown that winter is just starting in Colorado and it’s likely the first snow fall at the time so the temperature is likely sitting slightly bellow 0c. Also inside of the mall with the clickers is possibly warmer than outside. Even if it is the “dead of winter” in Fort Collins Colorado where Eastern Colorado university is located the coldest it gets on average even in the middle of January is -8c.

    Now I have ran one of those stupid obstacle marathons in -15c weather. There were several unheated water obstacles FILLED with ice that I swam though (because I am a stupid young man trying to prove his manliness)

    After 6 hours of running around freezing my butt off I was able to change my clothes (no way can she not find clothing in an abandoned mall) and warm up next to a fire (something I fully believe Ellie is making)

    So long as she keeps her core temperature up by doing physical activity such as running and climbing around or lugging large pallets she should be ok for at least a few hours.

    NOTE! I am in no way saying what I did was smart or saying Ellie SHOULD go swimming she really should have tried to stay out of the water to begin with.

    • Shamus says:

      I defended the hypothermia elsewhere in this thread, but this is actually a good point: It’s probably not super cold, and she should be able to find plenty of clothes. While we were watching, I somehow had it in my head that it was brutally cold and she had no way to dry off.

      The fact that the water in this warehouse isn’t frozen supports the idea that it’s not dangerously cold.

  16. Corpital says:

    I’m actually a bit surprised nobody mentions good old Joel, soaked in copious amounts of his own blood, lying probably very still on the floor and in the cold.

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