P.T. Part 1

By Shamus
on Aug 20, 2014
Filed under:
Spoiler Warning

135 comments


Link (YouTube)

Consider this episode a test-run of our technology for covering PS4 games. I’ll have another post on that once we’re closer to starting the next season. Let the speculation begin.

More context on the “game” being shown off: It’s supposedly a collaboration between Hideo Kojima (Metal Gear series) and Guillermo del Toro (director of Hellboy and Pacific Rim) as a sort of proof-of-concept / test pilot / marketing effort / obnoxious troll. The two are supposedly teaming up to make a Silent Hill game starring Norman Reedus, who everyone else knows from Walking Dead, but I still think of the guy as Murphy from Boondock Saints.

At the start of the episode I said, “I can’t imagine a worse lineup for a Silent Hill game.” To be fair, I think del Toro could do a fine job. I question the involvement of Kojima, because the guy is notorious for games that are cutscene-heavy, intensely complex, self-indulgent, and which frequently break the forth wall. I’m sure Kojima’s many fans will defend him by saying he’s capable of capturing the Silent Hill vibe. Fine. But I have yet to see any proof of that, and I’m going to remain skeptical. This poor series has been abused many times by various well-meaning dolts who just don’t “get” Silent Hill, and I’m not going to get my hopes up again. So many other developers have talked big about how they “get” Silent Hill, and then missed the point in a spectacular way.

The choice of Norman Reedus is a big indicator to me that someone is still confusing “survival” with “badass empowerment fantasy“.

On the other hand: This is actually pretty good.

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Footnotes:



A Hundred!2015There are 135 comments here. I really hope you like reading.

From the Archives:

  1. Chris says:

    FIRST POST LOL IM LEET

    Also: I’m really excited about this new technology. And the rest of this series.

  2. MadTinkerer says:

    “It’s supposedly a collaboration between Hideo Kojima (Metal Gear series) and Guillermo del Toro”

    When I saw the Game Grumps episode, I thought that part was just a joke.

  3. Daemian Lucifer says:

    Hey guys,remember when consoles had no loading and boasted about it as their advantage over computers?Yeah.

    • Otters34 says:

      Soul Reaver 2 back in 2001 had not a jot of loading screens. Neither did its two-year older predecessor with the sprawling, pseudo-open design levels and persistent item placement(you put down a spear outside the Sanctuary of the Clans? Okay sport, it’s there next time you load the game! Oh, you also used up a torch in the Silenced Cathedral to take down a Zephonim? Guess it’s no longer lit, sorry buddy!). It wasn’t a tech demo either.

      Even their PC ports(please sample the Legacy of Kain series on GOG) retained that bit of software sorcery.

      It’s kind of damning that such a small, but noticeable part of the experience is still so hard to solve. Just imagine how much better Neverwinter Nights 2 might have been without loading screens.

      • Fizban says:

        Oh dear god those loading screens. I’m replaying NWN2 right now, they suck so hard. I’m pretty sure they get longer as the game progresses, possibly due to using fewer “modules” as the plot narrows down and having more stuff going on in each area. The most effective way to punish quicksave abuse is 10 minutes of loading screens.

        • Bubble181 says:

          …I’ve heard this complaint a lot, and on my old laptop, loading screens were 5 seconds. On my new pc, they’re practically unnoticable.
          I wonder what faerie gave me a non-waiting-game version, but I’m thankful. Mind that I’m not saying “LOL UR PC SUX ITS NOT A GAEM ISSU” – I’m not that big a fanboy and I know it’s a known issue. IO just find it odd that my Witcher-loading-screens-give-me-time-to-shower-pc never had any issue with NWN2.

          • RCN says:

            Yeah, I’ve never had that much trouble with the loading screens either. Which is odd, since not too long ago my machine would take upwards to 15 minutes to open STEAM.

            But for me, Neverwinter Nights 2 always loaded stuff fairly fast. Only the keep took something like 40 seconds to load, sometimes, but all other areas loaded in 5 seconds tops.

            So maybe my Neverwinter Nights 2 experience was tarnished (?) by miraculous loading times. So my own opinion is that what would make NWN2 a much better experience is if they opened the damn gates to the city once you got there. Or once you’ve done only the first fetch quest. Or if they let you sneak in, since that’s what you end up doing anyways. ARGH.

            • Otters34 says:

              Sweet lady tedium, I had wholly suppressed the part where the story becomes The Harborman and the Quest Chain of Doom.

              It’s like doing the chores, visiting the relatives, and dealing with a family spat for your uncle on a visit before he lets you check out the cool wing of the house.

    • Kyte says:

      On the other hand their advantage of a stable platform without driver bullshit and similar still remains strong.

      • Mephane says:

        The difference is, no-loading-screens mostly benefits the player. Stable platform mostly benefits the developer, so the two are not really comparable.

      • ET says:

        How often do you need to install drivers for a new thing? I do this when I (re)install Windows, and every once in a while I go to Nvidia’s website to update my graphics drivers, if I encounter some graphical glitch in a game. Plus, Windows 7 is already very stable for gaming. Especially if you are using somebody’s service like Steam or GoG.

        For developers, most of this is abstracted away by DirectX or OpenGL, or some higher-level third-party library. So, it’s not going to affect them directly either. The devs who make the libraries, like the Unity engine, Unreal engine, Source engine, OGRE, DirectX, OpenGL, etc; They need to deal with bullshit, but they’re like what, a tiny fraction of the number of companies in the industry? Hardware bullshit only affects a small portion of the devs.

        I’d say that’s a good tradeoff, to not have to deal with the exclusivity/monopolies/incompatible hardware/etc of the consoles. :)

  4. IFS says:

    Wow, that managed to be genuinely unnerving even with you guys making comedy over it. Color me excited for this. Also you guys missed out on a golden opportunity by not making this episode 23 minutes 59 seconds long.

    On the subject of Kojima I think he’s not the worst pick, he’s been expressing a desire to do non-metal gear stuff for a while now and there are some very tense moments in the MGS series. I don’t know if he’s the best pick either of course but time will tell.

    • James Porter says:

      I am actually interested because of Kojima making something non-Metal Gear. So far, its all i really know him for doing. I know he has a lot of ideas that wouldn’t fit into Metal Gear (Super Bunnyhops video on Ground Zeros kinda goes into this) and i want to see them in action, if only for curiosities sake.

    • The Rocketeer says:

      ‘For a while now?’ As in, since making Metal Gear Solid 2 at the start of the millennium?

    • Volfram says:

      Yeah. “We’re mocking this mercilessly, but it’s actually really good.” -Rutskarn

      Mocking it mercilessly is a SURVIVAL MECHANIC! If they weren’t making fun of the game they’d all have been gibbering wrecks. I know that because the video unnerved me WITH their mocking and I’m watching it at 10:00 AM with a cloudless sky visible right outside the window!

      Hideo Kojima is good at making SUPER cinematic games. Guillermo Del Toro is good at making terrible movies which are really well-made. If this is a “playable trailer” for something they’re working on, I’m somewhat optimistic.

      Shame it’s on PS4. Sony management have demonstrated that their word is not their bond. It is, in fact utterly worthless.

  5. Klay F. says:

    I’ve said this before in tweets, but I’d like to say it now also.

    In my humble opinion, Kojima is one of the best game designers in the world. Yes, his dialog and story writing abilities are straight garbage. But unlike people like David Cage, he’s never actually forgotten that he’s supposed to be making a video game.

    Del Toro, on the other hand, is an absolutely excellent writer and a huge fan of the horror genre. These days though, his name is synonymous with excellent monsters, something the Silent Hill franchise hasn’t had since 3. This means an end to the days of Silent Hill monsters being nothing but dirty humans, sexy nurses, and Pyramid Head, that alone is reason enough for optimism.

    Basically, Del Toro’s and Kojima’s strengths perfectly compensate for the weaknesses of the other.

    I could be wrong, and the game could end up being a steaming pile of shit, but it looks to me like its being given every possible chance to succeed. And if the dream team of Del Toro and Kojima can’t do it, then nobody on the planet can, barring a reuniting of Team Silent.

    • James Porter says:

      Thats kinda how I’ve internalized the duo. I’m willing to see what they can do.
      I’m just more questioning of getting Boondocks Saints/Walking dead guy as a protagonist. He can play a tough cool jerk really well, but i don’t know if he can fill this particular role yet. It kinda unsettling to think that he is probably only here for advertising, which is disappointing

      • Klay F. says:

        Yeah, in fairness the Dream Team I’m envisioning in my head may very well not come to pass. Kojima and Del Toro may very well just not work well together, there may be some directorial ego conflict between them, any number of things could go wrong. Those things are out of pretty much everyone’s control (even Konami’s), so I think getting worked up over what COULD go wrong kind of pointless.

        And yeah, what I’m most worried about is Norman Reedus, since I don’t watch The Walking Dead, I have absolutely no idea if he has the capability to pull something like Silent Hill off.

        • RCN says:

          Sorry, but I don’t agree that Kojima is the greatest greatest game designer in the world. If the dialog and storytelling are horrible, why the hell does he enjoy to make us suffer through it so much? Why do I have to slog through 15 minutes of cutscenes for ever 5 minutes of gameplay?

          I’ve tried to play every single on of the Metal Gear Solid games, none of them I got past the second boss or so. Speaking of which, why does he create gameplay so focused on stealth, and then make every single boss fight like Deus Ex: Human Revolution boss fights? (Small arena with barely any place to hide where you spend 90% of the time taking pot shots at them when they’re not taking pot-shots at you, because their pot-shots kill you in a couple of hits but they have a health bar that take the entirety of the top of the screen?) It is not because I don’t figure out how to defeat the boss, it is because I figure I have to repeat the same exact boring pattern 10-30 times to finally wear them down and then get a cutscene where A) they sucker punch me in the cutscene because Snake is absolutely useless in cutscenes or B) they kill themselves with me unable to do anything about it because of A).

          I do agree he has great ideas in the stealth side of the game and the AI is interesting, even though still irredeemably stupid. But if he’d just let me play the godamn game for one full minute before having to answer the phone for three more minutes of mostly dumb exposition…

          My brother loves these games and I often end up watching them through osmosis (that is, doing something else in the immediate area to where he is playing). He’s finished MGS3 5 times or more and I’m still not sure what’s the deal with Volgin (was he raised by angry electric eels?)

    • Daemian Lucifer says:

      What do people have against David Cage?Heavy rain is so much a video game.I mean yeah I guess its a bit samey at first,what with all the rolling around,but once you unlock other characters it becomes more interesting,what with all the shield bashing,dripping acid around,swordplay and sniping.

    • Thomas says:

      I like the game design of Heavy Rain a lot. It’s basically The Wolf Among Us with better mechanics. David Cage is a terrible writer but he’s got a good head for making the scenario’s play out well.

      As a game designer, I think Hideo Kojima is the most Nintendoesque of all the non-Nintendo game designers. Metal Gear Solid has a lot in common with Mario. It not only establishes solid mechanics that it knows the player will like, it also understands the way the player is thinking about it’s gameplay mechanics and plays around with that. Just like Mario establishes a conceit and then plays around with all the possibilities until it subverts that conceit. HK will establish that he’s playing hide and seek with you. First he’ll hide the object somewhere easy to help you understand the process of looking. Then he’ll hide it somewhere harder. Then he’ll hide it in the hardest place you can think of. Then he’ll hide it in a place you _can’t_ think of. Then he’ll hide it somewhere where it’s just funny thinking of something hiding there. Then he’ll hide it somewhere meaningful.

      He plays out that sort of pattern throughout his games in such elegant ways. The ‘finding zadornov’ missions in Peace Walker are sublime. But the ambushing snipers mission in Peace Walker plays the same way, his boss fights play the same way… just on and on.

      His levels are also way more themed than modern game design (and more like Mario). He’ll have the level where everyone is hiding disguised in bushes, the level where the snipers are the main problem. The level where the militia is in a civil war and the gameplay is about controlling the flow of the battle from the shadows. He tends to create distinct gameplay mechanics/flow for each area

    • MrGuy says:

      It’s kind of like that old joke, where in heaven the Germans make the trains run on time, the lovers are Italian, etc., where in hell the Italians make the trains run on time and the lovers are German, etc.

      It’s really hard to know whether pairing two very different folks will maximize their respective strengths or shine a spotlight on their respective weaknesses….

  6. HeroOfHyla says:

    Do most PS4 games look this good? Because from the first couple minutes I honestly thought it was recorded footage.

    • Chris says:

      Not really, no. At least not yet. Too many games coming out right now are cross-platform with PS3/360, and the result is a lot of PS4 games that are just in a higher resolution and with more memory that allows for higher texture resolutions and a few other niceties. But there aren’t a ton of games designed specifically to take advantage of this hardware the way P.T. seems to be. Some games look darned good – Killzone, for example – but for every one of those you get an Assassin’s Creed IV or The Last of Us or Titanfall or other upsampled cross-platform game.

      For what it’s worth P.T. is apparently running on the same Fox Engine that’s powering MGS5, and we know that also looks fantastic. It might be one of the first engines really designed for next-gen hardware first and foremost, and it does some nice things with lighting (seen here, for example) that can make it look really good. You’ve probably seen it floating around, but someone adjusted the gamma/light levels on a screenshot of P.T. and it basically looks like a photo. It’s an exceptionally good looking game, even among PS4 titles.

      • ET says:

        I appreciate the high resolution of everything, but what really makes this game look great to me, is all the cool visual tricks. Things that aren’t necessarily raising the fidelity of the game (although they sometimes do that too), but which add to the atmosphere. Between the Game Grumps episode and your guys’ footage, I’ve seen:
        – light reflecting off of mirror (adds to the fidelity, but also really makes the game look more interactive and alive)
        – video codec/compression artifacts, and VHS/TV artifacts (make the game look like some weird fever dream, from somebody who is too much of a couch potato)
        – a slight warping of the visual space, like a very mild fish-bowl effect (it’s mostly at the edges of the screen)
        – a slight refraction/rainbow effect around bright objects (makes it look like your character is groggy/dazed, adding to the confusion and horror)

        Honestly, I’d still enjoy the game if the resolution and colour depth was halved or quartered, but it still had all this stuff going on. Heck, knock it down to the resolution of FTL or Risk Of Rain, and it would still be great! :)

  7. Hydralysk says:

    Would anyone care to elaborate on what makes a Silent Hill game? I’ve heard many fans of the games comment on how the recent games (namely everything after 3) has been crap, but I have little to no experience with the series myself.

    I played a bit of Silent Hill 2 years ago on my PS3 since I’d heard good things about it. I remember liking the atmosphere of it all, and not minding the janky melee combat, but then I got stuck on some obtuse puzzle and quit after 20 minutes of failed attempts to solve it. I haven’t touched it since.

    For anyone who is a fan of the games, what exactly IS the core appeal of the series? To be more specific, is it like Amnesia where the atmosphere is more important than the plot, RE where the gameplay is the main focus, or is it the narrative itself that’s supposed to freak you out?

    • Chris says:

      The core appeal of Silent Hill is that it’s got all the spookiness of classic Resident Evil pumped up by a sense of atmosphere that game never seemed to match and emphasized with a sort of psycho-horror. It’s not just that Pyramid Head or zombie lookin’ puppet things with no face or bloody nurses are after you – though they’re certainly creepy enough. It’s that Silent Hill is sort of like an ephemeral city that doesn’t really exist. Like the Twilight Zone it’s a place where troubled people end up and where nightmares come true – and almost always they’re nightmares based around the mental state and internal issues of the protagonist. Whether it’s guilt or anger or loss, people in Silent Hill have issues and the monsters they face there tend to be physical manifestations of those issues.

      In a way it’s like Alan Wake if Alan Wake was actually committed to horror and exploring Alan’s psyche instead of really bad action set pieces we all got bored of.

      • Hydralysk says:

        That kind of sounds like a horror version of the TV world concept from Persona 4. If that’s the case then I’d be completely on board with it, as long as they tone the puzzles down.

      • MrGuy says:

        So, now I’m legitimately curious. When you say “the spookiness of classic Resident Evil,” what Resident Evil are you thinking about as “classic”?

        I’ve found a lot of the RE games tense, but never really “spooky” – a zombie possibly jumping out after you go through a door is definitely tension, but (IMO) the ridiculous dialogues and plot tends to diffuse them from feeling “tense.”

    • The Rocketeer says:

      To put it as simply as possible, Silent Hill is like the cave from Empire Strikes Back. It’s only what you bring inside that matters.

      The first three games followed this pretty closely, with the enemies, the environments, the puzzles, and so on serving to give life and form to the psyches of whomever is within. It’s shaped by Alessa in the first, by James and Mary in the second, and by Heather and Claudia in the third.

      The quality goes up and down, and people generally agree that 2 is the best, but it was ultimately that idea that characterized the early series: the town is indifferent. It doesn’t follow rules. It has no agenda. It is a wasteland of the mind, a gate, and the things that live inside have only a moth-like attraction to what it observes: whatever you give it, it will return in equal measure. But it doesn’t have any need or reason to do so; Silent Hill, the town, is just a pier reaching out from our world into an abyss that we can’t understand, and each game is an exploration of that moment when you’ve just lust your balance at the edge.

      Every game after the fourth has stepped further away from this concept, responding to the increased displeasure and disinterest of a waning audience by trying to recapture the superficialities of the first titles without really understanding what made them work. The Room and Shattered Memories each did their own thing irrespective of what had come before, but games like Origins, Homecoming, and Downpour have each opted for the same approach: a warmed-over amalgam of mainly Silent Hill 2, with an emphasis on slowly uncovering the protagonist’s inevitably-tragic backstory, a recurring boss monster like Pyramid Head, and a range of good/bad endings based on “ethical” choices.

      Silent Hill Downpour, especially, felt like it had been constructed from the ground up of pieces of earlier Silent Hill games, and I’m certain that this is because the people making it have no confidence in their understanding of the material and are just trying to appease a cantankerous fanbase. If there’s anything good at all that can come from a Silent Hill title headed by Guillermo Del Toro and Hideo Kojima, it’s that those two probably won’t care about trying to make a “true” Silent Hill game and will just develop and follow their own vision.

  8. James Porter says:

    Rutscarn brought up an interesting distinction between being startled and horrified. Horrified is far more idea-based, while startled is just being caught off guard. It’s like if a story slowly revealed the more and more information, and each thing you learned make previous things even worse, while promising that it isn’t going to get any better (or worse, tricking you into thinking it will). Kinda like Spec Ops, nothing really is all that scary, but the ideas being presented change how everything is perceived.
    Rutscarn, as a guess, probably prefers this because it is kind of necessary for tabletop roleplay, as you cant really do jump-scares or horrifying visuals. Jumpscares also don’t work twice, but ideas in a story are constantly being rethought about, and multiple experiences also show cool foreshadowing.
    It also lets pacing be agonizingly slow, giving you more time to think about the story, rather than a cooldown between each scare(though it may work as that too)
    Basically, your brain becomes your greatest enemy, and thats pretty scary.

    • NMD says:

      I disagree Jumpscare work the second time. The first time it just startled you. Then you try to anticipated the next time its gonna happen a good horror medium will used that to its advantage. Amnesia did a great job at subverting your expectation on when the next jumpscare would happen. Amnesia also put very few jumpscares. Which to me is the formula to make jumpscares work in any horror visual medium. The reason most people think it only work once is because jumpscare either work perfectly or fail so badly that it kill all the tension. Which sadly tend to be the case for most horror visual medium that try to use jumpscare.

      T.L.D.R: The first jump scare create tension; the second jumpscare is suppose to be the satisfying climax to all that build up tension.

      • NMD says:

        When I wrote this Chris hadn’t made my point even better that I ever could. Seriously it took a long time to write that.

        • James Porter says:

          How do you think I felt when I saw that thread, saw the guy said my opinion far simpler and shorter, AND Chris responds to him? We basically had the exact same conversations, and thats silly.

          • MichaelGC says:

            Well, I for one enjoyed reading all the comments (you too, NMD) in case that might factor into future posting decisions!

            Also, don’t forget that Campster’s ACTUAL SURNAME is: McPeepants.

  9. I’m not entirely convinced that Kojima’s name is really more than just a ‘draw’ name they can use because their using that Fox Engine of his. There’s absolutely nothing about the demo that had any of Koj’s prints on it, but there was PUH-LENTY of Del Toro all up in…’specially near the end. Considering that he already had a game he was trying to get made, my personal assumption is he took the building blocks of that concept and simply slapped SH on it, got Koj for the engine and bankable name, and the pubs grabbed Norman to clinch it all.

    • Zukhramm says:

      I don’t know what you consider to be Kojima’s style but the repeating room and a radio randomly giving you instructions feels very Kojima to me.

    • Thomas says:

      Kojima’s very obvious about the involvement he has in things. He has a fairly big twitter presence and as one of the big ‘Person’s’ of gaming people normally know what he’s up to. Like for example, people know a huge amount about the story of how Metal Gear Rising got made (and exactly to what extent Kojima was involved) and you’d never know that about other games.

      He’s being trying to make other games for a very long time now, we know that he admires Del Toro a huge amount and that Del Toro admires Kojima a huge amount. We also know that Kojima is a huge micromanager who always gets sucked in trying to do everything.

      So I really doubt that he’s the sort of person who would ever have his name just slapped on something (and we didn’t know about it). Part of the problem with the MGS thing is he feels a lot of personal responsibility to Konami to put his mark on the games which get sold by his reputation.

    • James Tuddrussell says:

      There’s a piece of the picture hidden in the options menu, and the camera does weird things all the time. Plus at one point there’s a fake crash.

      That’s classic Kojima.

  10. Thearpox says:

    I may be in a minority on this, but does anyone remember when I criticized a heavy use of hyperlinks? I was talking about this (hyperlinks removed):

    “This poor series has been abused many times by various well-meaning dolts who just don’t “get” Silent Hill, and I’m not going to get my hopes up again. So many other developers have talked big about how they “get” Silent Hill, and then missed the point in a spectacular way.”

    Shamus, when you repeatedly link to your own previous posts, (which do not have a helpful url to serve as a title,) could you at least also use annotations for those of us who don’t want to open three random tabs that we are probably only going to read the headline of before closing? When I say annotations, I mean something like a title of the post you are linking to, or maybe a little context. One sentence would be enough. (Examples: “A grumpy post I wrote x years ago after being dissatisfied with xy remake.” , or in the case of “dolts,” you could just provide the names.)

    PS: I’ll elaborate a little more. Since I am a regular follower of your site, there is a also good chance I have already read the post you are linking to. I don’t really want to needlessly open the stuff I already read.

  11. Daemian Lucifer says:

    Rutskarn,Im pretty sure that everyone who enjoys scary shit doesnt like startling shit.In fact,outside of movie directors who cant make a good scary movie(all of them basically),I dont think anyone likes startling shit.

    • Chris says:

      When used selectively it can be effective! And not just as a “OH GOD” jump effect but as a means of building tension in moments where nothing does happen. And I think this demo does a good job of that – there’s the one jump at the tail end of this video, and I’m pretty sure that’s the last actual “jump” the whole thing has. But once it happens you’re always on the look out for the next one, and that adds a tension that may have been missing if it hadn’t been there at all.

      It’s when the jump scares are framed not as a way of building tension by catching people off guard but as the payoff to a tense scene or situation that they become lame.

      • Daemian Lucifer says:

        But if Im experiencing a work of horror Id rather the tension come from what will happen to the main (my) character,than from dreading the next assault on my ears.Especially if the first jumpscare didnt do anything of significance.

        A jumpscare can work,Ill admit,but only if its used to increase the dread of the main/side guy we dont want to see harmed.For example,lonely guy walks through woods,flashlight dies,monster jumps from a whole grabs the leg,the guy narrowly escapes with scratches on his leg,manages to fix the light.Next time light flickers,you dread another monster attack.Thats effective.

        But a random ghost jumping you and just reseting the room?Meh.

        • The Rocketeer says:

          But that’s the same thing: you create an expectation that another jump is coming, and you very carefully mete when they occur. I, like everyone else, “don’t like” jump scares, but I know good and well that the only thing I don’t like about them is when they lose their value due to overuse, or when the game doesn’t have anything else going for it.

          I don’t know how long this demo/trailer/whatever lasts, but they probably don’t have too much to work with. At that point, the player has already been through the hall several times with nothing big happening. The hallway is at its darkest, and the player knows there’s another presence in the hall with them. Then the ghost appears and releases the spring while the tension is highest. So, if Campster is right and there isn’t another jump scare, then I’d say they pulled it off fine. If nothing else, it demonstrates that they understand the economy of tension.

          • Isaac says:

            I think my problem with this is that there isn’t much agency put on the player. I know that this is just a teaser so its not going to have much gameplay but to me in order for a game to be scary there has to be a significant level of player interaction. If the player is just walking down hallways then its not scary to me.

            Startling? Yeah. But is it putting me in a constant state of fear, anxiety and dread? No, not really.

        • Shamus says:

          My personal bane: Bullshit no-consequence jumpscares.

          The main character is tiptoeing around, shining their flashlight in the dark corners and looking forSCREEEEEEEEE! DUN! DUN DUN!

          Gah! Oh. It was just the cat.

          Screw you, movie. If it was just a cat, then why the massive ear-splitting orchestra hit? The character didn’t hear that! That was entirely fabricated to startle (annoy) me. If you want a monster to leap out and make some noise, then fine. As long as you use that sparingly, I’m okay with that. But the “it was just a cat” is a lame trick that pisses me off and ejects me from the movie for good. (And no, having the monster pop out when the character relaxes doesn’t help. Cats should not make theater-shaking sounds.)

      • Asimech says:

        Since every single horror game/movie has at least one jump-scare I’d argue that the tension is there regardless, as everyone will be expecting That One Jump-Scare Because There’s No Way They Don’t Have Any.

        Personally: jump-scares take me out regardless. The moment when I start thinking “where will the next one be” I can’t immerse myself. The tension I get is out-of-character tension, like having to pay attention to the battery levels of the controller while playing or something. If I know for a fact that there are no jump-scares ahead of me I start sinking in a lot better.

        Which might make it sound like The One Jump-Scare would allow me to immerse myself, but it just establishes that the creators are willing to use jump-scares and reminds me of their existence just in case I forgot.

    • Jokerman says:

      When watching as a group, jump scares can be a lot of fun. I remember watching ‘drag me to hell’ with 5-6 others at the cinema, it was a blast. Effective horror? maybe not, but it has its place.

      • Asimech says:

        I’m not watching again because fuck pointless jump-scares, but from what I remember Jim fails to make a point of why jump-scares are good for horror, instead explaining why he likes them in general.

        Horror is about creating fear of what will or might happen, but hasn’t.
        Jump-scares are about fear of what has already happened i.e. terror.

        Just in case anyone wants to point it out: No, Chris’ point above doesn’t change this. Horror is only things that haven’t happened to the viewer/player. So for example fear of your character dying stops being horror the second they die the first time.
        (Of course this doesn’t mean the whole game stops being a horror game, just that that specific aspect isn’t horror.)

    • Thearpox says:

      “I dont think anyone likes FUCKING OVERUSED shit.”

      I think that’s more accurate.

  12. Decius says:

    Could not imagine a worse lineup? Charlie Sheen writes it, Jesse Ventura directs, and Justin Beiber stars.

    There, a worse lineup.

    • syal says:

      Although I do like the idea of sending Justin Bieber to Silent Hill.

    • Grudgeal says:

      Adam Sandler writes it and Michael Bay directs it.

      Michael Cera is the star.

    • Shamus says:

      I can’t imagine a worse lineup*.

      * Of people that are actually in the videogame business.

      Although since we’re making some kind of “dream team” (or is it nightmare team?) of awful devs, let me give it a go:

      * David Cage designs the gameplay.
      * Peter Molyneux writes the script.
      * Programming by Bethesda.
      * Ubisoft publishes it.

      • arron says:

        I want Don Mattrick to handle PR and Marketing. He’s very experienced with the way he handled the XBone release. Plus he’s probably bored of screwing up Zynga, and looking for a new challenge.

        And I’d get EA Customer Technical Support to handle the after-sales inquiries from gamers. They’ve done such a good job with SimCity and other releases.. :)

      • Grudgeal says:

        The problem is small reference pools. There aren’t that many people still in the business that are high-profile enough to serve as cautionary tales. But let’s give it a go.

        * Team Ninja does concept and character design.
        * Hideo Kojima writes the dialogue.
        * Derek Smart does PR.
        * Programming is outsourced to a third-party developer through Gearbox halway through development.
        * Then EA buys the concept, cuts the budget and makes Tetsuya Takahashi write the ending.

        • arron says:

          I forgot about Derek Smart. I guess he can be the gaming press liaison/community manager, so our game is represented on all the major gaming media sites and social media. Absolutely no way that would go wrong. He’s a safe pair of hands.

          I’d get Rebellion, King and Tim Langdell to handle the legal side of our trademarks and IP. It’s important to ensure that our property is safeguarded through the right legal strategy.

      • newdarkcloud says:

        Okay, I’ll have at it.

        Tetsuya Nomura design the character costume

        David Cage designs the story.

        Sega hires Obsidian to program the whole thing in a year’s time.

        EA collaborates with Sega on it, handing the gameplay to Visceral Studios after forcing them to include microtransactions somehow.

        And of course Don Mattrick handle PR!

  13. Bropocalypse says:

    I can think of a worse lineup: Peter Molyneux and Michael Bay.

    • Vermander says:

      Despite his horrible overhyping, I think Peter Molyneux has plenty of really good ideas, he just always fails in the execution. Almost every Lionhead game sounds like something that I’d love to play, but they all disappoint when you find out they can’t actually pull off the promised experience.

      As someone who has tried (and failed) to write a novel many times, I can relate to the “Molyneux problem”.

      • Thomas says:

        I’m beginning to have serious doubts that Molyneux ever even intends to pull of the stuff he talks about. The thing is the things he describes in his games are always so completely infeasible, it’s hard to imagine a competent game producer would even consider them for a second. Like when he said trees would grow in real time and you could carve your name in a tree and it would still be there in ten years game time… he said this ten years ago. There’s no way anyone who ever made a game would believe that was possible.

        Or when he talked about how changing your coastline would affect the weather patterns in Godus reshaping a neighbours climate. There’s absolutely no trace of those systems in the game. At all.

        He’s either not at all serious when he talks about what will be in the game, or he’s incredibly incompetent at his job

        (The super annoying thing is that back in the day, when he wasn’t talking pie in the sky nonsense about his games, he would make very innovative games with interesting mechanics. Black and White is still a game that hasn’t been close to reproduced in the modern day. And all the great Bullfrog stuff! But as his marketing BS went up, the innovativeness of his games went down.)

        • MichaelGC says:

          I wish I had a bit more to add, but that’s probably the most accurate PM summation I’ve ever seen.

          Although, Vermander: not (so far) producing a novel is not Molyneuxesque. Promising a novel which will make Iain M. Banks look like Halo fanfic, and then not producing it, possibly would be…

  14. What scares me most about this is that the Spoiler Warning crew is getting excited by (taken in by?) graphics.

    I kid, but it is a little concerning. They do a great job with atmospherics and all, but hasn’t the problem with so many AAA games been a concentration on things like tress effects and reflections when they need to work more on story and/or gameplay?

    • Daemian Lucifer says:

      True,but usually the improvement in graphics have been crappy.For example,laras hair.Whats the point of pumping money into that?

      But theres nothing wrong when a game really looks nice and pays attention to detail,like this one.And its used to build up atmosphere,not just to shove more polygons on the screen.

      • To be fair, this is a trailer, so we still don’t know if the Silent Hill curse will overcome the talent involved, atmospherics or no. As for Lara’s hair, maybe it helps with verisimilitude for some players. I wouldn’t know, as I’ve only seen them via Josh’s graphics card, which the game considered to be a heresy (hair-esy?).

        What’ll be telling about this new generation of games to me will be if we still have about the same number of mobs and/or interactive objects on the screen but they have better atmospherics, realism, cast shadows, etc.

        While some things have visually thrilled the SW crew in the past, it’s usually in the context of so many other games getting it wrong (water, physics objects that are on chains/ropes, etc.) or as attention to detail far beyond the attention paid to things like AI, gameplay, or character development. Time will tell on the latter, I suppose. Maybe this game will be a season of Spoiler Warning as well?

  15. Thearpox says:

    Also, now I want every horror game to be narrated by Josh and Rutscarn. I mean, you guys are excellent.

    If just the two of you were to do horror games in Freeman’s Mind style, that would be one of my favorite things on the internet.

  16. Otters34 says:

    Glad you people got a console-recording setup working! Really curious to see where this goes.

    As for the Mr. Reedus playing the main character part, they might be doing something like how Generic Voice Man Mr. North playing Capt. Walker in Spec Ops: The Line highlighted the Delta Force operative’s descent and cracking psyche. Players go in and he’s doing his Walking Dead bit, and then as you play you start seeing the holes in his facade, and realize how really he was a weak man driven by fear and envy or something.

    I sure hope the twist is the protagonist DIDN’T kill his family. Silent Hill 2 did its thing with a deft touch that’s been rare to see, and neither Mr. Kojima or Mr. del Toro are known for their skill as subtle writers or plotters. And stories that rely on dead children for pathos are just gross.

  17. Thiudareiks says:

    Responding to multiple comments above (and generally just repeating things others are saying, but maybe categorizing it a little better?)

    Orson Scott Card wrote a great introduction to his short story collection “The Changed Man” in which he described the three stages of fear. I don’t know if it’s online anywhere, so I’ll just repeat what he said:

    The most powerful stage of fear is the first: dread. It’s when you know there is something to fear, but you don’t know what it is — its dimensions, limitations, or even nature. The fear when you realize your spouse was supposed to be home hours ago, or you hear a sound from the child’s bedroom, or there’s a window open that you know you closed, and you’re alone in the house… Your imagination is free to invent something that is particularly scary to you, rather than what someone else thinks might be scary to you, or scary in general.

    The second stage of fear is terror: you have seen the thing to fear, and it is after you. Terror is (almost always) weaker than dread, since you do know at least something about the scary thing, and odds are, it’s not as bad as what you are capable of imagining.

    The last stage is horror, when you witness the aftermath of a terrifying thing having happened. Horror only really works when as a supplement to dread or terror, in the possibility that what has happened may happen again. Horror alone at most elicits disgust or even pity; at worst, with repeated exposure, it does nothing at all.

    The very best scary stories rely almost entirely on dread — with little to no horror at all, and terror only at the very end: as a relief, a cathartic release of pent-up fear. A good scary story makes you glad to be terrified, because whew, the dread is finally over.

    P.T. is a great example of a dread game (except for the one terror scare (or two or one and a half) and two horror “scares”). This is what makes it as good as it is.

    • Looking down the list of things Mr. Card has often held forth on as things one should be afraid of, I’m having a hard time not laughing at applying his political views to his stages of fear.

    • The Rocketeer says:

      It’s important to regard those things with tension, though; Card essentially states that dread facilitates a build-up of tension, and terror and horror cash in that tension, but doesn’t consider how they relate in that regard.

      You can’t build tension endlessly. Eventually, you stop wondering why your spouse hasn’t come home, have a funeral, grieve, get back in the scene, remarry, vacation in the Bahamas, and grow happily ancient.

      And you can’t release tension endlessly, neither through terror nor horror. If you pop an endless stream of monsters- an endless terror- at your viewer, eventually they just get over them or leave (or, in the context of a game, master fighting or evading enemies, or die, both of which destroy attempts to build more tension). Similarly, you can’t have endless horror; you can only have horror so long as you have tension, and once it is released, it stops being horror and becomes scenery and exposition.

      In contrast to Card, I would rate these things completely backwards: dread is weakest, terror, or fright as I tend to call it, is second, and horror is strongest.

      Dread exists in the establishment of a status quo, and the threat to this status quo. The viewer must understand that a threat of some sort exists to create this tension, but if the viewer anticipates and understands this threat too fully, then the possibilities of this change are incorporated into the status quo, and there is no dread. In this way, dread is cerebral, and is dependent upon both foreknowledge and mystery. While the threat which the viewer dreads may be physical and immediate, until that threat is presented, the fear of that threat, the dread, is mental. Dread is dependent on a viewer’s desire for resolution, and exists in the creation of this desire. There is something in the closet. When the tension created by dread- the threat to the status quo- is released, a new status quo is established, and the dread disappears with the tension that created it.

      But bear in mind that while I say dread is the weakest, I do not mean that dread is weak in any way. Dread can not only create extreme tension, but it lends the strength of that tension to the fright and horror that it anticipates. In this way, dread can be the most powerful tool that a creator has in the creation of fear- but never on its own. Dread exists only in tension and uncertainty, and these things cannot endure constancy. Dread must be paid off in some way to hold strength, even if it is in the subversion of dread, which creates humor and relief. You open the closet. It was your son. He drew you an adorable picture. But if dread was only ever resolved in happy, acceptable ways, dread could never exist at all; it is in the viewer’s knowledge of and anticipation of fright and horror that dread derives its strength. If dread is never resolved or addressed, it simply dies, and a simple decay of fear can not create catharsis and is not pleasing to any viewer.

      Fright is ephemeral and physical. It can last only as long as the sensation of danger which created it. Regardless of whether or not the danger remains real, or was ever real, it is the sensation of this danger that creates fright, and this sensation is extremely temporary, especially in the context of a game; the player will either develop mastery over potential threats, with the sensation of danger becoming less and less potent over time, or the player will fail to do so, and lose. A loss state destroys any built-up tension (and replaces it with meta-tension), and creates frustration, which is poisonous to fear.

      While dread requires fright and horror to hold any meaning, fright and horror themselves, while elevated by dread, can exist without it. While dread is in the tension of a threat to the status quo, fright and horror do not require this threat; they require only the status quo itself. You open the closet. There is a bear inside. Whether or not you had known beforehand that anything strange was inside your closet, the discovery of a bear within should frighten you when you open the door. This is heightened by knowing something was wrong beforehand, and your initial doubts are validated by the discovery, but your discovery of a bear in your closet is, in itself, frightening.

      Fright is animal. It relates to threats to our person, or to things we value. The outbreak of fire, the firing of a gun, inexplicable closet-bears. These things are imminent and physical threats to us. But the fright of these things is in their imminence; they, like dread, are temporary. They will either destroy you, or they will pass, one way or another. In either way, a new status quo is formed, and the fear is, for better or for worse, resolved.

      While dread is in possibility, and fright is in hostility, horror is in futility. Dread and fright are motive forces, acting against a status quo, horror rests in the status quo itself. While dread and fright are temporal, horror is eternal. In this way, horror is the most powerful. Horror is created in actions the viewer cannot avert, in consequences the viewer cannot desire, and in a reality that the viewer cannot endure. It is a betrayal of the viewer’s values, and the expulsion of these values from reality, replacing the old status quo either by changing it irrevocably or revealing it had never been as they hoped. You open the closet. The owner of the house is inside. He is terrified. Horror is established by revealing the smallness of the viewer, and in revealing their inability to know, understand, or affect things which they consider critically important. Horror is an infinite fear, because in relation to an infinite universe, the viewer is infinitely small.

      Fright is animal and physical, and horror is human and cerebral. Horror exults in fears we cannot materially affect, and almost always centers on loss (You will not live forever. Neither will the people you love. You loved to play before you lost your hand.), on things we cannot accomplish (She won’t love you regardless of what you say. You were born unable to attain your only desire. You don’t have time to save both of your children.), or things we cannot understand (None of this is real. You aren’t who you thought you were. God is not as you imagined.); that is, on man’s fear of his own nature as limited and mortal creature.

      Dread is James Sunderland hearing static on his radio. Fright is having three enemies and no ammo. Horror is knowing you killed your wife out of pity and frustration.

      Dread is entering the Metro. Fright is seeing the Metro. Horror is living in the Metro.

      Dread is not knowing what’s in your closet yet. Fright is knowing what is in your closet. Horror is knowing what’s in your closet, and never knowing what was behind you.

      • Ivan says:

        TIL, Horror is what briefly gripped me inside the Shalebridge Cradle when I realized that it “remembered” me.

        If I hadn’t played it I wouldn’t have thought that a game could pull that off.

    • Grudgeal says:

      And then there’s guro (for the love of God, do NOT google that at work!), which is just showing you lots of blood and gore on-screen and expecting you to feel anything other than existential disgust at the knowledge that someone, out there, thinks that’s actually scary.

      Bitter? me? Perish the thought.

      • Cinebeast says:

        Huh? What about people with hemophobia? Everything scares somebody. There’s no reason to be bitter.

        • Asimech says:

          Phobias aren’t about ‘fear’ in the usual sense. It would be more accurate to describe them as anxiety and the first part is what triggers it. For example blood doesn’t work as a “scary thing” for a haemophobe, it makes them anxious.

          Note: ‘Anxiety’ isn’t just “feeling a bit uncomfortable”, it can go all the way to a panic attack. It is also unrelated to the type of fear response that horror entertainment is intended to evoke.

  18. You know i think Hideo Kojima strength may play well when hes not the main guy heading the project. Mostly his attention to small and pointless detail.

    Like in mgs1 he wanted to make every single desk look slightly different. admittedly it was made by mixing and matching textures but the fact that he tried to do that with very little space for just a bit of immersion is interesting. In mgs2 if you knock over a bucket of ice the ice cubes that slowly melt over time.

    His games are filled with pointless little details that are quite nice touches. and well i think if someone can rein him in and keep him grounded and not making dirty jokes his powers could be used for good not evil.

  19. MichaelGC says:

    Let the speculation begin.

    Cunning! I reckon the next Spoiler Warning game is ‘hiding in plain sight’ there! It’s going to be Fez.

  20. Humanoid says:

    Awww, widdle baby Sectoid.

  21. Grudgeal says:

    Ok, hands up anyone who didn’t think: the end is never the end is the end is never the end is never the end is never the end is never the end is never the end is never the end is never the end is never the end is never the end is never the end is never the end is never the end is never the end is never the end is never the end is never…

    After the third or so repeat. I mean, beyond the Spoiler Warning crew, who very obviously did.

  22. Isaac says:

    Does mean that a Last of Us SW season is confirmed?

    • RTBones says:

      I don’t know that I would say confirmed – but if this drift into PT continues like this, I’d imagine its a safe bet. Last of Us is a game I think the entire crew would have something to say about. One of the reasons for not doing it was technical – this PT mini-season may be all the SW team needs to go for it.

  23. Ranneko says:

    It is pretty cool that you guys are investing in the time and effort to include console games. Greatly increases the number and types of games you can do. Diminishes my chance to have actually played the game before you do of course, and most importantly the chance for the crew to have all played the game before.

    That said, I have noticed that this no longer seems to be a requirement. Why did you guys drop that? Was it simply getting too difficult to achieve?

  24. Paul Spooner says:

    So, it looks really nice, but I couldn’t help but notice that the mechanics are designed to minimize the amount of content required. If only they were using procedural techniques! Is the whole game going to be repeated confined spaces?

    • Ivan says:

      This is kinda exactly what I was thinking. “That’s a REALLY nice hallway… I wonder if it’s repeating so much because it took so much time and resources that they couldn’t make anything else.”

      So yeah, I am also dubious as to weather or not the game will look this good, or even consistently this good.

      That said, as someone who is normally indifferent to graphics and never usually considered them a selling point for a game… that is a really nice hallway…

  25. Radio Silence says:

    Shock is coming home to find out that everything in your house has been replaced.

    Horror is realizing that everything in your house has been replaced with a lovingly crafted and precise replica.

    Terror is realizing that the noun who replaced everything is standing right behind you.

    Personally, I’m not entirely impressed with P.T. It’s technically proficient, but kind of clumsy in places (the description of the man reciting a string of numbers “as if chanting some kind of spell”, for instance, if they’d just remarked on him reciting numbers and then had a radio voice or a ghost presence actually /chant/ them instead of dryly recite them it would have let the player’s brain make that connection/conjure that idea themselves. For that matter, the radio voice itself was too blatantly ‘sinister’…but I belabor the point.)

    I’ll be interested to see how they carry things off, and I’m confident enough to suggest that it will be better than many of it’s predecessors, but there’s still some conceptual issues on the subject matter they don’t seem to ‘get’.

  26. Lame Duck says:

    Chris referred to it as “Silent Hills“. Is that actually what they’re going to call the new game?

    • MichaelGC says:

      Yep. More hills = more scary.

      • TMTVL says:

        The Hills are alive, with the sound of SILENCE!

      • Lame Duck says:

        That’s the dumbest. Not only does it make no sense since Silent Hill is the name of a place, but a pluralised sequel title brings to mind Aliens; i.e. a more actiony sequel to a horror film.

        • MichaelGC says:

          I guess there could be some sort of multiple-universe thing going on. So each Silent Hill is still called ‘Silent Hill’ but there are many of them in different possible worlds, or whatever.

          Which would probably still be pretty dumb unless done very carefully! Ah well, maybe there’s a better explanation – I guess we’ll find out…

        • Thomas says:

          That’s Kojima madness for you. Slowly stepping into the world of a man where reality isn’t quiet normal and everything has a pervading uneasy tone.

          It’s really important to him that Metal Gear Solid V is V and not 5 like the rest of the series. He called a game ‘Revangence’. When a character was combing the characteristics of Liquid Snake and Revolver Ocelot, they became known as Revolver Ocelot. In each entry to the series he gives snake a new prenom which is important only to Kojima. We’ve had ‘Solid Snake’, ‘Naked Snake’ and ‘Old Snake’ amongst others.

          This is his reasoning for calling the guy solid snake in the first place:
          ‘The reason I used Snake as code name in MG was snake was the most appropriate symbol of living thing that hides his presence, & sneaks w/o any noise. The reason I didn’t make any specific snake like cobra, anaconda, viper was because the protagonist is the player. The reason I use SOLID was to give opposite impression of soft image.’

          When he needs a third clone for Liquid and Solid Snake, he decided that Gas Snake didn’t make sense because the clone wasn’t like a gas at all. So we have ‘Solidus Snake’ because ‘SOLIDUS is not state but implies the boundary of liquid and solid.’

          Vamp, the water-walking, blood-drinking, shadow controlling immortal adversary is called so because he’s sexually aggressive (a Vamp).

          Heck the name Metal Gear Solid is already Kojima committing kooky symbolism with the name that should have been ‘Metal Gear 3.’

          Admittedly whilst this only adds to the entertainment and ‘crazy but still good’ factor of MGS franchise, you kind of hope it’s not going to creep too much into Silent Hill. A lot of his crazy will work perfectly for the world-bending nature of the games, but his naming conventions (and plotting) aren’t.

  27. AlternatePFG says:

    I thought Downpour was pretty okay. It didn’t gel together well at the end, but it had some really cool individual setpieces and the atmosphere was well done. It felt more like Silent Hill than Homecoming, Origins or Shattered Memories did at least.

  28. Andy says:

    Okay, I’m fixated on the detail that the radio newsreader guy reads “called 911” as “nine-eleven” and not “nine-one-one.”

    It’s breaking my immersion! (Or am I just being a provincial, since I’ve never been anywhere where that was the convention?)

    • Chris says:

      Yeah, there’s lots of little idiosyncrasies like that. Most American clocks wouldn’t present in military time, either: it’d be 11:59 PM, not 23:59. Also the intro dialog (and dialog at the beginning of the trailer if you manage to unlock it) are really stilted and feel like they’ve either been awkwardly translated or like they’re a foreign approximation of what down-home Americana talk is like.

      In most games this would just be goofy, but here it actually does a nice effect of making everything feel just a little “off” to me. It’s trying very hard to be something I know and yet it’s not quite mimicking it right, and the result is unsettling.

      • ET says:

        It would be cool, if the game messed with small things like that, differently for each region. Like, if your language is set to US English (or if the console reports your location as USA), the game formats the clock as 23:59 to mess with you, and if you’re in Ukraine, it formats it as 11:59 pm to mess with you. Make a couple different versions of small notes or text, crewing with local jargon or slang. Would probably be a lot of effort, though. :C

        • Ivan says:

          Personally I think setting the time to 11:60 could be really creepy (that or some other invalid time). Or possibly if it started at 23:59 and counted in real time, except that it rolls over to 24:00 (or some other invalid time) and keeps going from there. The second option would be much better actually, start with something familiar and make it more and more wrong as time goes on.

          • Asimech says:

            @ET: I’d say the AM/PM thing wouldn’t work, it’s used enough in movies that it feels normal.

            Having it roll to 24:00 in regions where 24h clocks are common might work though. It’s still the sort of thing that could be a mistake, but anyone used to a 24h clock should instinctively feel that it’s wrong.

    • Melfina the Blue says:

      I used to only know it through that old joke about there being no eleven button on the phone. But after Sept 11 happened, I’ve heard it, mostly in panic situations. I guess that’s kinda like the mail slots vs male sluts thing, our brain grabs whichever it finds first even if the other option makes more sense.

  29. Groboclown says:

    I fully approve of Ruts’ Eraserhead reference.

  30. RTBones says:

    Interesting. Other than here at 20-Sided, I had not heard of PT until now. While the graphics do look amazing, and we still have an episode or two to go in this trailer – it *is* only a trailer. Further, while I’d be happy to play a game that explores the concepts seen so far (disclosure: like Josh, I really enjoyed Amnesia), we are a fer peece yet from me plunking down the cash for a PS4.

  31. Exasperation says:

    So, when they were all talking about the possibility that the ghost would just never show up, did anyone else think “Of course it’s not going to show up; it watched the episodes for both Amnesia games, and knows that if it shows up Josh will just jump on top of its head and ride it around”?

  32. Ithilanor says:

    Cool game. Even cooler Talking Heads reference.

  33. Ivan says:

    No one has mentioned this so far (according to ctrl-f “mirror”) but when Josh is in the bathroom I’m pretty sure you can see the ghost standing behind him in the mirror. Obviously the mirror is pretty tarnished, but the lower edge shows her lower half.

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