Skyrim EP34: Double Dragon!

By Shamus Posted Thursday May 22, 2014

Filed under: Spoiler Warning 109 comments

Link (YouTube)

This Molag Bal quest is a great example of the game depriving the player of obvious choices. The game designer just half-asses it and then shrugs, “Well nobody’s forcing you to complete the quest.” If nicest thing you can say in defense of a quest is that the player isn’t physically compelled to endure it, then what you have is still a terrible quest.

This isn’t even that hard to solve. When the player rescues the priest, right now your only choice is to either bring them back to be sacrificed to the dark lord, or just ditch them and leave the quest unfulfilled. But this latter choice isn’t really a choice at all. I mean, you can always come back later. You’re not rejecting Molag Bal, you’re putting him off. And he doesn’t even mind.

Instead of the player just abandoning the priest and ignoring the quest, just add a line of dialog or two. You tell the priest what Molag Bal asked you to do, he thanks you, and the quest is marked as complete. If we really need to reward the player, we can have the priest give the player a trinket before they leave.

There. Not a lot of work, only a couple more lines of dialog, and we offer the player the ability to take an obvious and reasonable course of action.


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109 thoughts on “Skyrim EP34: Double Dragon!

  1. Thearpox says:

    Yeah… the console commands make my day every time.

    I don’t really have much to add to this that wasn’t already mentioned by the cast members.

    But on a serious note, how much more is the season planned/schedules to run? It’s been 34 episodes, a fair amount already.
    And are there any plans to show some on the mods like Frostfall? (Since I remember you guys saying (before the season even began) that some of the mods may get a spotlight eventually.)

    I’m not demanding, just curious.

    1. BeardedDork says:

      To be fair using console commands is part of the base Skyrim experience.

      1. Wide And Nerdy says:

        Morrowind too. Else I’d be stuck in a tree trunk.

      2. Jeff says:

        Console commands are a core part of any (inherently buggy) Bethesda experience, which is why console players of Bethesda games are rightfully subject to such derision.

        I can’t count the amount of times I’ve responded to a buddy whinging about bugs and glitches with Skyrim on his PS3 with the fact that I worked around the issue or fixed it entirely with a command or two. (He eventually bought an additional copy for his PC, when he couldn’t deal with the horrible performance on the PS3 any longer.)

    2. hborrgg says:

      I’ll be honest, I had no idea that skyrim would be able to side track the SW crew this much. And they’re trained professionals!

      So are we on track for the longest season yet?

      1. SKD says:

        You obviously haven’t watched the Mass Effect 2 or Fallout New Vegas seasons. Both clocked in at over 50 episodes (after I stitched together the multi-part episodes from ME2)

  2. krellen says:

    So by the time I came across the Molag Bal quest in my playthrough, I was already the Chosen of Boethiah. I had spoken with her, killed for her, and been blessed by her. Quest didn’t even drop a single line acknowledging it. Not Molag Bal, not the priest, nothing.

    And that is SO MUCH of this game. It’s like the designers don’t even care.

    1. Bropocalypse says:

      I feel like Bethesda is evenly divided into two groups: Those who are passionate about their craft, and those who shrug and say “eh, good enough.” Every subgroup of their company is split in two thusly.

      1. Humanoid says:

        I get the feeling that group of passionate developers consists of two, maybe three people.

        1. Wide And Nerdy says:

          Then they must have been very prolific because this game got plenty of love.

          1. evileeyore says:

            And they had nothing to do with the dialogue, plots, or quests.

            1. Thomas says:

              Bethesda’s level designers are all very passionate people with a strong vision, their mechanics designers are split 50-50 with people who say ‘Wouldn’t it be amazing if the player could do this?’ and people who say ‘well this mechanic kind of does that right? And now I can go home’.

              There is one passionate quest designer left in Bethesda. He/She is very lonely.

    2. Tizzy says:

      I really felt like this game shoved the daedric quests down the player’s throat. That’s probably why your status as chosen was never acknowledged, or why Shamus’s suggested opt out is not offered. Those would really be easy to include, but the designers wanted to make sure that all daedric quests could be completed (there’s even an achievement for that), therefore, no discouraging words and no decision that irrevocably prevents you from obtaining the artifact. (Except, somehow, for the Dawnstar nightmares quest, because it requires you to miss out on something: either the artifact or a follower.)

      To me, this was Skyrim at its weakest: the devs obviously thought highly of the daedric quests, and I completely fail to share their enthusiasm. A couple were cool, most of them felt gimmicky in some way or other, and I had little interest in the artifacts gained.

      1. modus0 says:

        Namira’s quest can be completed differently and without gaining the Daedric artifact as well.

      2. Wide And Nerdy says:

        The Daedric quests were depraved. And even after a thousand hours of playing, I still haven’t made it completely through the Namira thing. Its like reciting an oath of loyalty to Stalin with a live cockroach in your mouth.

        1. krellen says:

          You take that back. Cannibalism is awesome.

          1. Humanoid says:

            To be fair, human is probably much more delicious than cockroach.

            1. Daemian Lucifer says:

              Its not called long pig for no reason,after all.

              Though,if you dislike pork,I think you would take the cockroach over human.

              1. Humanoid says:

                If you dislike pork, you are not human, therefore paradoxically, eating human would not count as cannibalism.

                1. Daemian Lucifer says:

                  Hey,I dislike pork!Oh…I see your point.

      3. Mikey says:

        Clavicus Vile’s quest can deny you a Daedric item as well, but it actually does it in a way that’s really fitting for an Asshole Genie/God type of character. Right at the end, he offers you a deal: he could give you his Masque, as promised, or you could keep the unique battleaxe you just retrieved for him (Which would probably have great stats for a character who actually uses their Two-Handed skill.) But the axe isn’t counted as a Daedric item by the game, so if you picked it and you want the Oblivion Walker achievement, you’d have to start an entirely new file and do ALL the Daedric quests again.

        Or, y’know, if you did Hircine’s quest last, just reload to a pre-completion save and do the exploit where you get both of his possible items.

        1. Hal says:

          The axe is actually rather crummy: Damage equivalent to a glass battleaxe, enchantment is stamina damage. The warhammer you get from Malacath’s quest, Volendrung, is superior in every way.

    3. Michael says:

      The hilarious thing is how inconsistent it is. You can meet Cisero in a random encounter before joining the DB. But, if you’re head of the Thieves guild, Delvin barely notices that you’re now working for the Dark Brotherhood, and there is literally no interplay between you and the Morag Tong member in the Guild.

      Arnbjorn will recognize immediately that you’re a werewolf and a member of The Companions but no one on the other side of that will even acknowledge that he exists. He says that’s because his methods were “too extreme” and he creeped them out… okay, fine… but how far over the edge would you have to be to actually freak out Aela? I mean she’s already in Mumbles’ camp of “kill and eat everything.” She’s also completly willing to let you use guards as chew toys and that’s not an example of, “oh, the character isn’t coded to respond,” she actually doesn’t care, you can get that out of dialog with her. But, with the strife at the core of The Companions quest line it’s really freakin’ weird that they’ve just forgotten about Arnbjorn.

      There’s weird nods all over the game to other things you’ve done. Hell, even Harkon has explicit dialog that’s only available if the player is a Werewolf or Vampire. But, it only makes stuff like this even weirder.

      As far as I can remember, the only Daedric prince that actually recognizes you as their champion is Hermaeus Mora in Dragonborn, IF you did his quest in the main game.

    4. The Rocketeer says:

      Not that voices in this game are stellar, but did anyone else think that Molag Bal, King of Rape, could have had a voice slightly more appropriate to his power and character? Something like the voice of the Overmind from StarCraft.

      1. guy says:

        Azura and Merida have pretty good voicework, I thought.

      2. Vect says:

        Well, he’s voiced by Malcolm McDowell in TES Online, so there’s that I guess.

  3. James says:

    The real question is how long till Josh kills or gets the dog killed, even though right now its safe from josh?

    and it defiantly shouldn’t have said the things about your idiot scientist father.

    also i get the sense josh is a weee bit under leveled in main weapons or undergeared. probably both.

    Keep up the good work, as always Mr bug fighter extraordinaire

  4. Destrustor says:

    That quest for the mace, I’m not even sure I ever got asked by that vigilant outside. I think every time I did it, I simply entered the house uninvited (as the dragonborn is wont to do) and he just follows you inside to start the quest anyway.

    1. Neko says:

      IIRC he ForceGreetings you if you get close and then regardless of if you agree to go in the house with him, you’re on the quest. I took a look inside, got pissed off at the railroad, reloaded a much earlier save so that I was never on the quest at all and sniped the guy just to get rid of the damned thing.

      I mean, it’s not like the character I was playing is a soul of purity and good, I happily kill every Dunmer Farmer I meet on the road because of that stupid accent, but there’s no way I wanted to kill the Vigilant because Molag Bal told me to. I’ll kill him without ever hearing from Mr. Bal, thanks.

  5. TMTVL says:

    Wrestling fans, are you ready to RRRRRUMBLE?

    Presenting our challengers: Reginald Catbert and Jenny. They will be facing the defending duo: Dragon, and Blood Dragon.

    Tonight live on Hell in the Cell!

  6. Wide And Nerdy says:

    Shamus is half right about the inheritance system. You get inheritance from friends when you die unless you killed them directly (which as Shamus notes, the game doesn’t register death from a fall as a murder). The game marks Thonar as your friend if you complete the Cidna Mine quest (because you kill Madanach, the guy who ordered Thonar’s wife killed. So it makes some sense.)

    You discovered exactly the right moment and method to do this. Before Cidna Mine is cleared, Thonar never leaves his house and he’s marked as essential.

    1. Tse says:

      He wasn’t much of a friend, though. He had a good amount of valuables but he left Catbert only 100 gold, of which 10 went straight into taxes.

      1. Wide And Nerdy says:

        Whaddaya want pal? You may have avenged his lover but that was as much about getting yourself out of trouble as it was about helping him. Besides he gave you a valuable piece of jewelry. Did you want the mine?


        Interesting side note though. If you inherit from an NPC that apparently includes their house though they don’t say it. You can go to their home and sleep in beds previously listed as “Owned” and take stuff. Thongvor must feel cheated.

        1. Felblood says:

          Don’t all “owned” beds become free to use once the owner has sloughed off the mortal polygons?

          1. Tizzy says:

            I’m pretty sure they don’t, but whether tis a bug or by design, I couldnot say…

      2. Humanoid says:

        Well he is probably obliged to also include every other adventurer that’s ever done an odd job for him in the past in his will. Paying a thousand adventurers a hundred gold each would pretty rapidly drain your wallet.

    2. MichaelGC says:

      The bar for lifelong friendship in Skyrim is set pretty low. I spent most of my wedding day trying to remember who on Nirn all these oddballs I’d apparently invited actually were.

    3. Daemian Lucifer says:

      So he was there with a lawyer,on that cliff,saying “Ok,heres my new signed will,and if this cat dude walks out alive,you go file it.In case I suddenly die for no reason,I want this new will to take effect.But only if the cat guy walks out alive,and everyone in the mines is dead.Ok,here he comes now,gogogo!”

  7. Tohron says:

    I always find himself wondering why Josh doesn’t use his healing spell more. He had ample time during the interludes in the dragon fight to heal with magic, instead of blowing through his food, but he never did.

    1. aldowyn says:

      Good question. He’d be (fairly) safe inside the shack, too, since it won’t ever catch on fire or anything.

    2. Humanoid says:

      He needs the mana to ragdoll the dragon skeleton later.

    3. Josh says:

      I think we can pretty confidently chalk this up to “Josh is a dumb.”

      1. Wide And Nerdy says:

        Why does this make me think of the Kids in the Hall sketch where Dave Foley and Kevin McDonald mumble dejectedly about what stupid losers they are?

      2. Tizzy says:

        Oh really? Rather than, say, Josh wants to destroy the liver of anyone who is playing the drinking game?

        1. Thomas says:

          By now natural selection has made sure that people playing the Spoiler Warning Drinking Game don’t actually have livers

  8. Hal says:

    Um . . . okay. What’s up with the music? And the random skipping around?

    1. Cinebeast says:

      It’s called a montage. They didn’t want to show every detail of the sequence, so they cut it down to the highlights.

      1. Indy says:

        Yeah, it’s just to skip through the boring bits of them figuring out how to start the quest. It’s the same music they used waaay back in the New Vegas season for montages and fast-forwards.

        1. Humanoid says:

          Only just skipped ahead in the video to identify the music so there might be more than one used, but it’s Airport Lounge as wonderfully used in the Trainz special.

          Quite a few different tracks have been used for this purpose over the years though, and some show up as the main theme of later seasons (Aces High from the AC2 season, Fork and Spoon from Alan Wake). Other tracks used for similar purposes you might recognise are Merry Go, Malt Shop Bob and Shades of Spring. Find them here

          I know another commenter has in the past identified just about every piece of music used in the series, but damned if I can find that comment.

    2. Maybe because the “Benny Hill Theme” is still copyright limited,
      and Josh was unware that The Liberty Bell march is public domain (also known as the Monty Python Flying Circus theme)
      Or maybe because Josh decided that this was how the edit should be. While high speed footage would have been funny and any hard cuts would be less noticeable, I don’t mind normal speed and hard cuts, it was obvious to me that there was a lot of faffing about.

      1. Peter H. Coffin says:

        “Yakety Sax”

      2. Mintskittle says:

        I’m not sure, but I think Josh has used this song before in previous seasons, so it may just be for SW consistency.

  9. The Molag Bal quest was OK, but it could ha ve used some more options as mentioned.

    Like “Yeah, dude I’m not stepping into that.”
    Or just grabbing the mace from the side or the back instead (why the heck do you stand on the platform thing?)

    Also what Rutskarn said about freeing the priest. I agree but would want a bit more than that, maybe escort him (meet him) at a Boethiah statue.

    Also, you do “run into” Boethiah at some point, I don’t think she even mention the priest, would it not be awesome if she knew and rewarded you for saving her servant?

    Another odd thing is that none of the Deidra seem to knowledge that you are the Champion of…

    By the end of the game you are (that close to be the ruler of Skyrim if you could marry that Queen)…

    You are the Dragonborn, Champion of (long list of Deidra), high ranking military in the Imperial army, head of several guilds guild, Vampire/Werewolf pack leader (!), and bunch of other things I’m forgetting I’m sure.

    If you did all the Deidra quests the player could in theory as the Champion of each Deidra actually call upon their assistance to rain down hell on a huge army.

    And at the end of the main quest depending on your choices you are more or less the leader of the Dragons as well.

    If the player character from Oblivion met the player character from Skyrim, the Skyrim character could kick their ass easily.

    It is a shame all that “power” is not used. Would be awesome if you did the Boethiah and could actually use that status as her Champion later.
    Or even suffer some consequences if you ended up as champion of two opposing Deidra they don’t get along after all). Having to choose which Deidra could be a nice tactical choice to make.
    Same with the guilds you become the head of, being able to use them in the main quest or the war going on.

    Would be nice if quests/actions had more impact on Skyrim itself rather than you just checking off items in your quest log.
    Like that cannibal quest which has a Deidra attach to it (obviously), why does not this cause more cannibals to appear around Skyrim or have people comment on how many chewed legs they find in backstreet gutters etc.

    The inheritance letter Josh got was a cool idea but seemed odd (you really did not know the guy etc),

    Also the courier thing, how the hell does he find you? That must be Skyrims best tracker ever, why is’t the military using him?
    And more importantly, why are there never a letter nailed to your door? (they did this in the old days you know)
    Or hand the letter to a neightbour (which would give it to you the next time you are near your house.
    Heck, with the main quest you often talk to jarls or a house carl or something, they could easily say that a courier came with a letter for you.
    Also, when you sleep, if you have a companion it would not be odd if they ran into the courier while you slept and hen they hand you the letter.
    Also, in the old days, a local merchant sometimes acted as a message keeper so local folks would check with them if there was any messages from other towns etc.

    1. Hal says:

      Hm . . . now I’m curious if he could have told Janessa to use the altar.

      1. Oh! Dang, didn’t think of that, that’s pretty darn smart, if you do a “evil” character that would be a brilliant way to do thing. “Hey Janessa, could you grab that mace for me, I need to adjust me sword strap here.”

        Although if fully loyal just ordering her to do so (ad she’d comply) would also work I guess.

      2. Daemian Lucifer says:

        No you cant!Havent you learned anything from the fallout season?The pc is the one that has to sacrifice themselves every time,because shut up!

    2. James says:

      But the Obivion Character is Sheogorath, on the the Daedra the Skyrim character is champion of, as well as Champion of Cirodill, Leader of several guilds, has personally traversed 3? or 4 planes of obivion. as well as having the ability to hide there identity with a cowl.

      so seriously who knows.

    3. Wide And Nerdy says:

      Boethiah would be more likely to reward you for killing Logrolf than helping him. She doesn’t care for weak followers. And in Skyrim, being openly the Champion of the Daedra would just get you banned from the holds. Nord culture is not as friendly to daedra worship as Morrowind is.

      As for the army, these Daedra have already given you the boons they can grant. They’re restricted from having undue influence in our realm. As for your other positions of power, very few of them come with any real authority. A Thane is a defender with privileges. The dragons are following the Thu’um of Paarthurnax, not you. You’re discharged from the military after the Civil War. The Harbinger is a respected advisor (explicitly not the chief), The Listener just passes on assignments from the Night Mother (and besides, its not something you advertise openly), The Archmage is a proper leader but he’s more like the principal of a college than the general of an army. They like to keep to themselves.

      As for the Guildmaster of the Thieves, well you do have some authority but thats actually pretty well reflected. You have contacts in every city, you can buy off your crimes, but the Thieves Guild discourages violence.

      In spite of this, they do let you preside over the treaty proceedings even deciding which holds go to which Jarls. I don’t know how it gets any better than that power wise.

      But I agree you should totally be able to make your own case for being the High King.

      James, the Hero of Kvatch is Sheogorath sure but in our plane of existence, it means jack all. Remember, your daedric powers disappear the moment you leave Sheo’s realm.

      1. Tizzy says:

        We might get to that later in the season, so I’ll just keep this as a quick comment, but I never understood why they decided to make the player the Listener in the Dark Brotherhood. This role just scams NPC to me.

        1. Humanoid says:

          Scamming NPCs is what the player character does best!

          1. Tizzy says:

            I meant “scream”. Darn touch screens!
            But your point is token.


        2. Wide And Nerdy says:

          Oh I hated that part personally. I would have much preferred to side with Astrid and tell the Night Mother to go eff off.

          I had no desire to be fantasy Norman Bates.

          Whats even worse is I accidentally purchased the torture rack because I was speeding through the upgrade purchases. Which meant I could never visit the headquarters because I didn’t want to be reminded of what a sick freak my character turned out to be.

          Honestly, why does the Dark Brotherhood need torture racks? Their targets are generally easy to find and you get assignments through the Night Mother. Is this just a FOR THE EVULZ?

          1. Vect says:

            Yeah, to be honest I much preferred Astrid’s “In it for the Money” ways rather than the “RAAUUGH SITHIS” creeps that the game wants me to be. And Cicero always came off to me as an attempt to emulate The Joker and getting a mix of Harley Quinn and Mr. Zsasz as a result rather than a proper assassin.

            To me, a proper assassin is more like Daud from Dishonored: Someone who gets the job done while trying to avoid a mess. Cicero just comes off as a guy who looks like he would disembowel his target and masturbate in the pile of entrails.

  10. My hat is off to Chris (I actually do have a hat, a black Fedora with a black band)… Double Dragon ?!!!, man that’s gold right there, and Fire and Ice, if there is a Spoiler Warning highlights reel made some day then that better be in there.


    Which means Chris made a double pun (pun intended).
    So I guess this means that Rutskarn got demoted to… second pundit ?

  11. djshire says:

    But Ruts, Shamus does have many kids…so just like Jon Snow, he knows where to put it

    (I hope this doesn’t get nuked)

    1. Daemian Lucifer says:

      Not necessarily.Theres still artificial insemination.So for all we know,he doesnt.

  12. Thomas says:

    This was the first quest in Skyrim that made me want to play through it

  13. guy says:

    When it comes to Daedric Artifacts and murder, I’ve got a game where I’m officially playing a lady serial killer with the Ebony Blade.

    “It’s a fine day with you around.”

    “My sword demands your blood!”

    I don’t wear armor, instead relying on stoneskin and the sword’s increasingly powerful life drain effect (26 HP per hit, by now) for most of my fighting, although she is also my vampric Dawnguard crossbow user.

    1. MichaelGC says:

      Sounds like an ideal solution to my problem: I can’t visit my own house because, I swear, if I hear steward Faendal weakly compliment Riverwood one more damn time I am going to LOSE IT.

      “Riverwood’s agreeable enough I suppurk.” *thump*

      Lots of games suffer from this: NPCs with a few lines of go-to dialog, or repetitive combat barks, which the player will hear over and over and over. The thing I don’t quite understand (knowing zilch about the actual dev process) is why this isn’t ten times worse for the developers themselves. Individual developers, I mean: are they not also slowly driven mad by this sort of thing during the course of making a game?

      1. Grudgeal says:

        My private hell in Skyrim would be to be locked in a long, unskippable conversation with nothing but Barbas barking at me in the background… Forever.

        I maintain the actual Daedric test of that quest is not so much your ability to do all the physical stuff but how long you can tolerate schlepping that damned dog around while it barks at *everything*.

        1. MichaelGC says:

          I hear ya! Although … I guess that’s one case where the use of barks is somewhat justified. (Ahahaha. Sorry.)

          I guess not every dev will be overexposed – like, not the ones doing UI implementation or optimising jiggle physics, etc. – but wouldn’t there be some who suffer specifically with this sound stuff?

          “Hey, Beth. How’s your latest project coming along? What was it called again? Skyrim?”


          [scenes reminiscent of Citizen Kane room-trash]

      2. Daemian Lucifer says:

        Heres a tip for everyone who finds the random dialogues in skyrim(or any other game)annoying:Play thiaf.After about 10 minutes of that,youll be glad for having the arrow to the knee of enemies everywhere in mojave desert.

        The sad thing?I am not joking here.

        1. lucky7 says:

          Patrolling the arrow almost makes you wish for a knee-clear winter.

  14. IFS says:

    Oh good you guys found the bug with the Sanguine quest where if you persuade or bribe the priestess then pick up the mess you can no longer give her the mess and its flagged as a quest item until the end of the quest. (That would be why you couldn’t drink that bottle of wine, the other seven after it though I have no idea).

    1. Trix2000 says:

      Probably considers all of them to be the same item, essentially… so when the one is locked off by the bug, the others are too.

      Amulets of Talos (IIRC, correct me if I’m wrong) have a similar issue, but I forget how that one is triggered.

      1. Tizzy says:

        One of the amulets is picked up from the decapitated guy in Solitude. There is some sort of fetch quest associated to a family member. I don’t know that the quest quality stacks to other amulets, though.

      2. IFS says:

        Yet it let him drink a couple bottles before it stopped him, (unless I’m misremembering) which is very odd. Does Skyrim keep track of where a specific object is in its stack in your inventory? If so it seems like it should have been easy to just move quest items to the back of that stack if nothing else.

  15. MichaelGC says:

    What’s all this guff about some vidjagaem doin on my favverut cat-blog?

    1. Humanoid says:

      The only thing that’s changed is that we’ve gone from pictures of cats to videos of cats.

      1. MichaelGC says:

        I can has mammoth-cheezburger?

        1. Tizzy says:

          Wiv Mammoth cheese, plz.

  16. Neko says:

    Ha, enjoy your undrinkable Alto Wine Josh. It, along with Giant’s Toe and a few other misc items are now Super Important Quest Items because of that one cleanup quest and you’ll not be allowed to drop them until you finish the Sanguine quest. If you’re lucky. We can’t have the player drop such an essential plot item, they might lose it and be unable to progress!

    1. hborrgg says:

      He needs them to fix the thing though!

  17. Tizzy says:

    Really disappointed that Chris did not give a fake ID number to Josh when spawning the missing NPC…

    1. The Rocketeer says:

      I know, there was such an opportunity to give him the ID of, I dunno, a Draugr Death Overlord, or the Adoring Fan from Oblivion somehow.

      Given what happened immediately after, I’d say it worked out for the best; perhaps mortals simply can’t out-troll Skyrim itself.

  18. hborrgg says:

    The quote “You know nothing” refers to a scene were the character Jon Snow tells a wilding girl that he loves her while also betraying her and her people so she responds “You know nothing, Jon Snow.” and shoots him in the knee with an arrow.

    1. Daemian Lucifer says:

      Why the spoiler tag?Also,I think that would just confuse Shamoose even more.

      1. hborrgg says:

        Yeah, I guess I’ll edit it out. I’m just never sure what I’m supposed to spoiler around those game of thrones people.

        1. IFS says:

          Well I would have appreciated spoiler tags having not started the series yet :/

          (I am planning on reading the books this summer then getting caught up on the show)

  19. Raygereio says:

    Important console command tip:
    Don’t use Placeatme. That command creates a new instance of an object’s, creature’s or NPC’s base reference. It’s fine to use if you want to spawn a random dragon or something. But using it for named NPCs will result in duplicates running around like we saw. Also a lot of the aliases for quests are tied to reference IDs and spawning a new instance won’t work for those quests.

    If you want to find a specific named NPC either use “player.moveto [NPC’s refID]” to move yourself to that NPC. Or use “prid [NPC’s refID]” followed by “moveto player” to move that NPC to your location.

  20. Daemian Lucifer says:

    Shamoose,you should definitely watch game of thrones.It has everything a fantasy geek needs:dragons,wights,Sean Bean dying,and also this song.

  21. Daemian Lucifer says:

    So it takes two dragons to (barely) kill you off.Yeah,they look cool,but they are such lame enemies(except for the first couple of times,when you still think they are impressive).

    1. Tizzy says:

      Catbert did very little damage per swing, though. I’m not sure why he’s become so underpowered.

      Maybe it’s time to spend points in basic things like boosting the damage for 2-handed weapons. In my first playthrough, I got in trouble because I didn’t realize how important these perks were,

      1. Josh says:

        I hate those perks though. They’re so boring.

        1. Raygereio says:

          What perks are interesting in this game though?

          1. MichaelGC says:

            Cushioned! No? Just me that gets excited about half-damage from falls, is it? Righto then. (Oh, c’mon. Half damage!! From falls!!)

            Actually, some are ‘interesting,’ although not in a good way. Like Wax Key. Get a copy of a key for any lock you’ve just picked. Right. But I’ve just picked it. So this is now as useful as a pair of castor-sugar waterskis. Worse, in fact: the skis would just dissolve, but now I’ve got this bloody useless undroppable key cluttering up my inventory.

            So the slightly interesting thing there is: what on Nirn where they thinking? (Actually I guess the entire Lockpicking tree is another instance of the “that’ll do” approach discussed up top here.)

          2. Michael says:

            The Smithing Tree… well, not interesting per say, but it does let you see more armor styles than you otherwise would.

            Quick Reflexes (Block), gives you a time slowdown effect if an enemy is power attacking, while you’re blocking. (Also, one of the few Block perks that doesn’t care if you’re using a shield.)

            The three specialization perks in each of the two and one handed trees… They’re not really interesting in a vacuum, but they do make Swords, Axes, and Maces/Hammers feel like different weapons, rather than slight stat shifts.

            Eagle Eye and Steady Hand (Archery) give you a slightly more interesting experience with the zoom in and slowdown functions. It helps if you want to use your bow as a sniping weapon.

            Unbreakable (lockpicking)… honestly this one’s “interesting” in a, “why would the designers deliberately break the game balance” kind of way. It completely invalidates the Master Lock perk, which is kinda amusing, since they’re both capstone perks.

            Poisoned (pickpocket), if you’ve never used this one, try it out, it’s hilarious and stupid. Not as hilarious as Perfect Touch, which lets you literally steal the clothes off someone’s back, but is somewhat entertaining.

            Quiet Casting (Illusion) lets you actually use magic as a stealth character.

            Destruction’s specialization perks help differentiate Fire, Frost, and Lightning, though these are far less interesting than the similar melee perks.

            Avoid Death (Restoration), though… more interesting in concept than actual gameplay.

            Extra Effect (Enchanting): there’s actually some hilarious abuses with this, when you make an enchantment with it, the game counts that as a single enchantment with two effects, which you can then break down to learn the combo enchant, and then re-enchant with an additional effect… There isn’t a coherent use for doing this, since splitting your effects like this results in much weaker enchantments than normal, but it does allow for interesting combinations.

            Vampiric Grip (Vampire)

            Summon Gargoyle (Vampire)

            Savage Feeding (Werewolf)

            Totem of the Predator (Werewolf)

            Ancient Knowledge (Quest)

            Prowler’s Profit (Shamus’ most hated quest), also the one that Josh was mentioning ages ago, that dumps gems everywhere.

            Agent of Dibella… kinda… (quest)

  22. ET says:

    So, the duplicate quests thing (when you exited the mine, I think): Skyrim respawns the PNCs and monsters for quests, and lets you do them over again. I’m not sure if this is a bug, or intentional, but I think it only happens on some quests. For me, the game respawned The Legend of Red Eagle. Got myself a second artifact sword from it, and I assume I could do it forever, if I wanted to.

    1. Daemian Lucifer says:

      He didnt respawn though.If you check out the part with the console,you will see the second vigilant appearing and entering the building while the one Josh duplicated remained outside.

      1. ET says:

        Not the Molag-Baal quest, which he obviously broke with the duplicate NPC. I’m referring to another quest at 5:30, where Josh says he already did the quest, when talking to that guard or whoever he is.

        1. guy says:

          There’s supposed to be a guard conversation relating to the murder, which I don’t think Josh had gotten before. Probably it didn’t get deactivated on the end of the quest.

  23. Decius says:

    Well, someone has to be left holding the Molag Ball. Might as well be the player.

  24. I hate it when quests I don’t like (and don’t have to do) won’t effing complete unless you do them.

    The Namira quest is actually a good example of the OPPOSITE of this phenomenon–you can decide “no, I’m not going to cannibalize someone” and go murderize all the Namira worshippers instead (it’s best to go along with it until they send you out to fetch “dinner”, because they ALL gather in that one room for this). Attacking them actually gives you a NEW quest to kill all of them, and the quest “series” completes once you do so.

    Maybe it’s a form of OCD but I hate, hate, HATE having stuff sitting forever in my quest log. Skyrim alternately pissed me off and made me happy by forcing quests down my throat and then (occasionally) allowing me to complete them by doing some version of “SCREW YOU”. I would have liked it better if they were a little more consistent about having an “out” for these quests, though.

    1. The Rocketeer says:

      No, no- those quests just sitting in your log act as a reminder of parts of the game you don’t care for.

      And leaving them incomplete isn’t a “real” workaround, anyway; just leaving them undone, as the player, feels like something the game doesn’t accept as valid. But telling someone to screw off, as a character, and having the quest complete- or even fail- is much better, as the game acknowledges that you’ve made a choice, and that your choice is legitimate and accounted for.

      That’s one thing that’s so often pointed out as a weakness in these games, and these kinds of games: not trusting the player to make these irrevocable choices, or to make choices the devs might see as suboptimal. “But what if they don’t get to see x,” that kind of thing. I’d really hope that the mountain of feedback Bethesda got from Skyrim convinces them that we’d much rather shout certain people to their deaths than ever do the buggy, shit quest that they’re tangentially tied to, and so do our characters.

    2. MichaelGC says:

      I also hate having unfinished/unwanted quests spaffed all over my quest log. Even a delete/hide option would help, if we can’t have a nice in-game story-friendly way of ditching them (which would obviously be a lot of work to code; fair enough).

      So in my last game I tried … well, I guess you could call it a form of ‘aversion therapy.’ I went around trying to get every quest I could find. Sure, I’ll find you some firesalts! Lost our alembic, have we? Well, that’ll never do, now will it?; I’ll get right on that. Some tool stole your sword? What a tool. Right, stick it on the list. No, there’s still a bit of room there, mate, down at the bottom.

      And then I made sure not to complete any of them until it just got ridiculous. I ran around with all quest markers enabled (so the compass looked like a blanched forest of upside-down pine-trees) ignoring them all. (If I did feel like completing something I’d do so without referring to the log or attempting to work out which of the billion markers was relevant – the obvious drawback here being that some prior familiarity is required.)

      Eventually, something broke inside: my OCD was overwhelmed and just totally gave up on the mess of a questlist as a lost cause. And it really seemed to help! – I went back to using it normally, but without worrying about someone’s urgent need for a mammoth tusk or whatever. (That said, I guess the real test will be starting a new game with everything initially pristine, and I’ve not attempted that as yet…)

  25. TheHokeyPokey says:

    The difference between suplex’s and German suplex’s is the direction and hold involved.
    suplex (vertical suplex is what people mean when they use it unmodified):
    german suplex (I link to flash point any chance I get, at about 2:20):

  26. BeamSplashX says:

    “Look at you, Catbert. A pathetic creature of fur and crime. Casting and eating as you bunnyhop through my bowels. How can you challenge a curiously mortal god?”

  27. DTor says:

    Josh, I notice that when that blood dragon goes off to fight a mudcrab, the mudcrab goes toe-to-toe with it and never backs down. That dragon’s fought mudcrabs more fearsome than you.

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