Walking Dead EP6: We’re Here to Eat You!

 By Shamus Dec 6, 2012 155 comments


Link (YouTube)

At the start of the series I was kind of vague about what sort of spoilers we should avoid. To help clarify: The spoiler I pointlessly blurted out at 5:08? That’s exactly the sort of thing I want us to avoid. So now that we have a clear, concrete example, I’m sure we can avoid having any serious spoilers.

Also, there’s a significant spoiler for the end of Episode 2 at 5:08. So… be ready for that.

We talked a little bit about the [perception of] choice in this game, which I know is a big topic for a lot of players. As I said in the comments yesterday, I’m holding off on that conversation until we have a bit more of the game completed, so that we can look back and talk about how things played out. You’re free to have that debate if you want, but if you wait a couple more episodes you’ll be able to have the discussion without needing to spoiler tag every dang thing.

I love the end-of-episode decision review that the game gives you. It compares your decisions to the decisions made by all players, which is really interesting. Here is how my game looked at the end of Episode 1:

Walking Dead Episode 1 outcome.

Note how Larry stood at the back of the store and didn’t lift a finger to help anyone, even though he’s the biggest and the strongest and all of these people are in danger because they were saving his life. You could argue that he didn’t want to strain his heart, but then he straight-up tries to kill you. It’s inexcusable. You can’t pardon this as him just taking care of his daughter. Kenny and Lee both allow themselves to take risks and go into harm’s way, even though they have kids to care for. Larry’s daughter is an armed adult who can take care of herself.

Larry is an evil parasite. Despite his physical prowess, he never lifts a finger to hurt a zombie, although he’s more than willing to hurt and threaten the survivors at his side. He’s the biggest mouth to feed and he’s a source of conflict. In the upcoming episode, he also proves to be a horrible judge of character and a rampaging fool.

If I were actually in Lee’s position, I wouldn’t live with him. I’d ask the group to throw him out. If they were divided or refused, I’d leave. He’s not worthy of my help, and he’s already tried to kill me once. There’s no reason to put up with that level of risk. (Actually, I would have asked Glen to let us ride with him. That might not have worked out, but I’d rather struggle with someone worthy than get stabbed in the back by someone evil.)

Larry is actually the character that feels most like a migrant from the TV show: Someone who is pointlessly vile, even to their own detriment. And the other characters tolerate it because otherwise there wouldn’t be a show. Larry and Lily together make for an insufferable pair, and if there were more characters like them I would have enjoyed the game a lot less.

In the later episodes I enjoyed things a lot more once those two were gone, even though the situation was more bleak and dark. I just find the struggle for survival a lot more stimulating than bickering with the evil assholes the writers have shackled me with.


A Hundred!202015We've got 155 comments. But one more probably won't hurt.


  1. Xanyr says:

    I feel like this game didn’t really hit its stride until about Episode 3. The first 2 were good but they were still hampered by soap opera dramatics and being too tied to a central location.

    • Aldowyn says:

      Yeah, I’d agree. Episode 1 was just too busy establishing all the characters, and Episode 2 the main plot is just too ridiculous.

      It really gets into its own in episode 3, and all the decisions you’ve made come together to influence it in some fairly big ways.

    • Spammy says:

      I liked episode two. It probably wasn’t intentional but the game threw out a red enough herring that I didn’t immediately catch on to what was happening. And I thought the climax was very tense and gut-wrenching. Also, it was during this episode that I looked at what was going on and what I’d done and thought, “No… I need to be a better person than this. For Clementine.”

      I just finished Episode 3, and I liked it as much as I’ve liked all the other episodes. Although I thought it kind of dragged on, like it wasn’t really building to anything just putting you through the ringer to fill time.

      • Wedge says:

        I also thought Ep 2 was the weakest episode. Aside from the constant bickering with asshole characters, the plot was a ridiculous cliché that was so heavily telegraphed that I spent most of the game waiting for it to stop beating around the bush and reveal the “twist” already. I also got stuck at the end on one of the gods damn button-mashing QTEs* that you *have* to succeed on or you die, which killed most of the emotional impact of the end of the level and replaced it with pure rage at the game designers for making me deal with that shit.

        * Ep2 was the only one I played with a gamepad. I can’t do button-mashing QTEs on a gamepad; my fingers just can’t physically make that motion quickly enough to pass most of the time, so I find it utterly infuriating when developers do this. I had to repeat that QTE about four or five times before I succeeded. After Ep2, I switched back to mouse & keyboard and had a lot less trouble, but I still think that button-mashing QTEs need to die a horrible death. I don’t have any conditions that limit my mobility, and I have trouble with them–it makes me really angry to think that there are people who have limited mobility for whatever reason who are physically incapable of progressing in the game because of idiotic QTEs when there is NO REASON they need to be in the game to begin with.

        Sorry, I kindof went off there for a second. What were we talking about?

        • krellen says:

          Did you kill Larry? One of those QTEs at the end is really hard but gets interrupted if you tried to save Larry by Lilly shooting Andy. It’s the one where he’s pushing your face into the fence.

        • Wraith says:

          I don’t know why everyone rags on Episode 2, personally it was my favorite episode. I’m one of those people who get depressed after particularly dark episodes or movies (ex Star Wars Episode V was my least favorite of the originals until I became more of an art snob), so despite the quality of Episode 3 I was very depressed about the deaths of most of the group. I liked Episode 2 because the antagonists were good, the primary moral dilemma was good (so long as you didn’t hate Larry like Shamus did; I disliked him but would never have outright murdered him if this was real life), and most of all, I felt the emotional payoff at the end was fantastic. Probably my favorite moment in the series is Choosing between killing Andy and walking away – the empathic environment (sunny day, clouds gathering, storm starting, thunderstorm) really helped sell the plot to me, the dialogue delivery during that final choice was great, and the use of the camera during the same really affected me. Plus, I like it when you still have lots of people around you by the end rather than enough to count on one hand. Episode 2 had character deaths, but they weren’t overwhelmingly depressing in number.

          • Dreadjaws says:

            I think the reason most people (me included) dislike Episode 2 the most is for the reasons Wedge mentions up there.

            A) Larry and Lily have a more prevalent presence in this episode, and they’re both insufferable.

            B) The plot is not just cliché, it’s stupidly obvious yet none of the characters seem to notice the stupidly obvious things. The villains will have gigantic neon-sign arrows with the word “EVIL” printed pointed at them, they will say things that even a zombie would find suspicious, they will try to kill the main characters at every corner yet none of the latter will bat an eye.

            An exchange between characters will be going like this:
            - Andy: I’m soooo evil!
            - Lee: What?
            - Andy: I mean… feeble. I’m so feeble!
            - Lee: Oh.
            - Andy: Look at Lilly over there. I’d love to take a bite out of that ass, if you know what I mean… I mean, literally. Like, ripping a huge chunk of it with my bare teeth and accompany it with mashed potatoes. And then a nice glass of wine.
            - Lee: Ha, ha! Man, you are crazy with your metaphors!
            - Andy: Y… yeah. Oh, I think it’s time for dinner! [takes out a pocket watch, and an ear and a finger fall from his pocket. Lee stares at both for like five seconds and shrugs]
            - Lee: So, all this talk is getting me hungry, where can I wash my hands?
            - Andy: The bathroom is on the left. We have no soap, so you’ll have to use mayo.
            - Lee: Cool.

  2. krellen says:

    You know Shamus, in Episode 2 if you give Larry the axe, he’s the one that kills the risen walker of Ben’s dead friend.

    • Tse says:

      No, at least in my game Ep2 he tries multiple times to hit the zombie, fails every single one, which leads to Lee being saved by Carley. That scene proved to me, once and for all, that Larry is completely fucking useless. I still tried to save him, though, because I didn’t want to murder him in front of Clem. If she wasn’t there, on the other hand… Ep2
      EDIT: It could be that I saved the teacher, which led to Ben’s friend offing himself by way of zombie. Maybe a one-legged zombie is just too difficult to hit for Larry…

      • Jokerman says:

        Both Mark and Larry fuck that up if you have Carley, but not if you have Doug….which i find weird.

        About spoilers, is it alright to freely discuss Episode 2 now? Since we are there in the game, striked that just in case.

        • Wraith says:

          They should have had that scene work like this: if you saved Doug, both Mark and Larry succeed in killing the zombie no matter what. If you save Carley, Mark screws it up and Carley has to save you, but Larry still succeeds. It would have been a better way to help try to put Larry back in the player’s good graces.

  3. Daemian Lucifer says:

    About choices and this being a story about characters:
    People often forget that lee is also one of those characters,so even if no one reacted to your reaction,youd still be defining the character of lee.

    • SleepingDragon says:

      This. I mean, I haven’t played the game, it will probably be at least a year or two before I consider getting it, however I think some of the stuff people consider “false” choices is perfectly reasonable in this game. Especially in this setting where Lee isn’t some kind of chosen one superhero saviour of universe but just one of the many ordinary folk trying to survive. He doesn’t get the awesome protagonist powers where it’s enough they talk to someone to enlighten them, have them drop whatever it is they’re doing and change their entire way of life. What these conversations do is give the players a chance to roleplay, to decide what Lee’s priorities and worldview are. Although that’s still constrained by Lee being a somewhat established character, I would love to see this kind of thing with a way more open character and a larger spectrum of choices but I imagine the cost of developing such a game at this tech level would simply become prohibitive, not to mention major diverging paths would require some serious plot juggling.

      • Thomas says:

        I haven’t figured out why I’m.utterly unsatisfied with roleplaying Lee yet. My best guess ties into what you said. Lee is really well written to the point where anything he does feels in character. He has a strong powerful established motivation. Everything is to protect clem as his proto-daughter, it just feels like save a or b isn’t a creative act, but something Lee as he is.might do. You can’t be schizophrenic here because every comb. of choices makes sense for Lee.

        • MrGuy says:

          Right. I think the thing here is the game constrains you to role playing as Lee, not role playing as yourself.

          The reason every combination of choices plausibly makes sense for Lee is because the only options you get are the ones Lee would actually do. If it’s completely outside Lee’s character, it doesn’t show up.

          That said, Lee has a lot of complexity to him, and you do get a lot of choice which aspects of his character to play up. You can be a ruthless pragmatist who doesn’t run risks even if it’s leaving others to die. Or you can be the benevolent, comforting, selfless sort charging into harms way. You can be the voice of reason or an emotional standard bearer.

          I actually kind of like this “constrained role playing” where you can choose where in the spectrum of Lee’s character to play, but you can’t fundementally alter his basic character. Because I rarely felt cheated in this game. In more “open” role playing games, I was often forced by the writers to do something counter to my playstyle (e.g. my “reason with people” pacifist walking into a bar during a fight and being offered the choice of who to kill, even though I’d never shoot first and ask questions later).

          • SleepingDragon says:

            Oh I didn’t mean my post as “this is what I think this game should be like”. To be honest I prefer being put in a shoes of a character with predetermined motivations and precreated general personality and being able to maneuver within those limitations in a well written game than having something akin to the many inconsistencies and absurdities of ME2/3. I just meant it as “a game I would like to play ideally but I don’t think is feasible outside pen and paper RPGs”.

    • MrGuy says:

      Yeah. So, about “false” choices… I think people are harping on false choices are missing the actual game.

      This is a game where almost every choice is on a timer. You have to make decisions without exactly knowing how they’ll play out. You don’t know if someone will take offense to what you say. If you choose to save someone, you don’t know if the other person will live. You don’t know if you tell someone to leave if they will or not. That’s the magic of this game. You might say the wrong thing and have Kenny hate you forever, or kill Carley, etc. Or, people might ignore you, argue with you, or even overrule you.

      Sure, the GAME knows what the outcome will be. It might change someone’s attitude toward you, or their dialogue, or whether they’re alive, or nothing at all. But I didn’t know. And that’s what gave my choices weight for me. Could I have saved both Doug and Carley if I saved Doug first? I didn’t know. Could I have actually saved Ben’s teacher if I’d cut off his leg immediately and not wasted too much time trying to cut off the chain?

      The thing that makes your choices matter isn’t that ALL of them affect the plot. It’s that you don’t know when whether the choice you’re making is minor/unimportant or the most important choice in the game. They’re only truly “false” choices if you’ve read GameFAQ’s looking for the “right” choices to make and know what happens.

    • Wraith says:

      It’s unbelievably rare to have a game these days, especially a role-playing game, that actually lets you ROLE-PLAY your main character. Of the games I’ve personally played in recent times, I think KOTOR II was the last one where I really felt my dialogue choices were defining my unique character – even if it still ran with a binary Light/Dark dichotomy, a big part of KOTOR II’s plot and characters was spent examining the fallacy of such a binary morality system.

      The Walking Dead is not about making choices to change the plot of the game. It’s about making choices to change the character of Lee Everett. It’s part of the nihilistic theme of the game and TWD universe – MAJOR EP5 SPOILERS Lee dies in the end, but that’s what TWD has always been about; during the apocalypse, can you still be the same person you were before? Or will you let savagery consume you? What kind of person are you going to be even in the face of hopelessness?

    • Even says:

      This a thousand times. If the story’s about anything, it’s about Lee and Clementine and how they try to survive the apocalypse. It’s where the focus is for the better part of the game and without it, the overall story wouldn’t have been even half as compelling as it was. I would have definitely appreciated a more branching story, with bigger changes and some more choices to make, but that particular story of two characters was still more than enough to keep me satisfied. It’s the one story where you do get to make a lot of important decisions, that will very likely shape the foreseeable future, counting on that Clementine lives long enough to put all those lessons to use.

  4. Aldowyn says:

    So I’m pretty much in agreement with the cast here in this discussion of non-choice, including the fact that some of the choices COULD have branched out with significantly changing stuff.

    *edit* Oh, and I was exactly the same. The weird thing with ‘defending kenny’ is that if you ACTUALLY go middle of the road, you’ll still end up with several choices that are like ‘side with larry’ and ‘side with kenny’ pretty explicitly :/

    Man I LIKED Mark!

  5. Daemian Lucifer says:

    Semi off topic:
    You guys mentioned the skip button.One extremely annoying trend that Ive noticed with games the last few years is that they have UNSKIPPABLE INTRO CREDITS.Its really starting to piss me off.I dont want to see ea or ubisoft logo every single time I start the game.It gets even more annoying when tweaking some of the settings requires you to restart the game.

    Ok,I get making them unskipable for the first time,but at least give us the “skip intro” button,like king’s bounty does.And thats one more reason why king’s bounty is still miles above plenty of current AAA games.

    • Theminimanx says:

      While there isn’t a skip button, you can press escape, return to the main menu, and then start the next episode. You’ll miss the “other players made these choices” bit and you’ll still have to sit through the “previously on the Walking Dead” bit, but at least you can go into the next episode completely blind.

    • ehlijen says:

      In some games, if you can find them, simply deleting/moving/renaming the files for those unskippable intro movie files means the game doesn’t play them and just moves on to the main menu.

      • Daemian Lucifer says:

        Sure,but every time you have to go into the guts of the game to do something,instead of doing it from the menu,its a bad thing.Even if all you have to do is pretty simple.

  6. Daemian Lucifer says:

    Oh damn it guys!You cut off right before THE scene.Um,pun not intended.

  7. Daemian Lucifer says:

    Its funny what Rutskarn says about mark there,because we get introduced to a bunch of other characters during the episodes,and not all of them die.

    • Aldowyn says:

      Most notably Omid and Christa. Pretty much everyone else dies, and it’s pretty much impossible to tell when they’re going to ahead of time (exceptions as always)

      • SlowShootinPete says:

        Those guys were great though (I asked them to take care of Clementine for me in episode 5). When you meet them it’s during a quiet moment, they introduce themselves to you and you can get to know them a bit through talking with them. Mark just comes out of left field.

        It was so weird to me that I thought I must have missed some content in Episode 1 or that it was a bug.

  8. Spammy says:

    I chose Carley. Every moment Shamus pointed out how Doug was being shown as capable and stuff and how Carley is a good shot but kind of clueless? I missed out on all of that and thought of Doug as just kind of average whereas Carley had a pistol and was a crack shot. I chose her because she had the gun and I figured she might be able to help Doug, although I see how things went bad too fast and she couldn’t. So this is going to be fun, I get to see how things turn out with Doug.

    The big “THREE MONTHS LATER” jump cut here reminds me somewhat of The Dark Knight Rises and how the movie picks up eight friggin’ years after the last one and is supposed to take place over like seven months or something. I get the whole scope thing, but it just fell flat there. Here at least we see people dressed differently, the trees are in fall colors, and the problem is that they’re out of food, which is a problem you could expect to see as time wears on. Still, it is kind of problematic and awkward because it seems like all the relationships are still where they were three years ago.

    • Aldowyn says:

      Actually, a lot of stuff happened while you were gone. Most notably the whole lilly-kenny arguments that will drive the group dynamic for the next episode or so started.

      • I always disliked that dynamic because for a while there it makes Kenny look like an insufferable prick that’s almost as bad as Lilly and Larry are, which is just so counter to the character we see in Episode 1. Especially in (Episode 3)Kenny hates you just because you didn’t want to murder the shit out of Larry in Episode 2, even when up until that point you’ve been bros with him and his family. His character makes a complete 180. At least he got better in subsequent episodes.

        • krellen says:

          Honestly, I thought the spoiler bit was in character. You basically made Kenny murder a guy by himself, instead of at least sharing the blame with him. It seems perfectly in character to me for Kenny to redirect his own guilt onto you.

          • I don’t think it is necessarily out of character, but it feels like they needed a bit more… something there to make it feel less like it came out of the blue. Especially after I just risked my neck and nearly killed someone to keep his family safe.

          • Wraith says:

            It seems out of character at first, especially when you don’t have the hindsight analysis provided by the presence of all the episodes. But, like I’ve said in a comment on a previous episode, Kenny has a very pre-established mindset: “All of the choices I make are to protect my family! If you don’t have my back, you are not protecting my family! In fact, if you don’t agree with me, that’s as bad as trying to kill them yourself!” Kenny having such a mindset explains his bitchiness about things that would be minor to a normal person.

          • Isy says:

            Not even that you made him murder a man by himself – it’s pretty obvious right after the deed that Kenny is horrified by what he’s done. He needs to be right about this, or else he’s just a murderer. The fact no one else who was in the locker agrees with him just eats at him further, so he keeps bringing it up and acting defensively to try and prove he was right.

            He didn’t snap at me in Episode 3 unless I called him a murderer. He still left me to die, which pissed me off, but I didn’t think that had anything to do with siding with Lilly – maybe he doesn’t abandon you if you sided with him, I don’t know. It felt to me simply that he was being a coward.

            Kenny’s flaw, I think, isn’t just that he’s got a very black and white opinion on his family – it’s that he’s a coward. And whenever he is a coward, he turns into a raging asshole trying to justify himself. Really, when you look back at things, he’s not even any good at fighting. So far his only victory has been hitting a zombie that was lying on the ground. Otherwise, he completely dropped the ball with Shawn, got KOed in one punch by Larry, spends the zombie crisis situation getting his car, and then (ep. 2)completely fails to rescue his family from the St. Pauls. He’s a guy who has none of the skills he needs to survive in this environment, but everyone (including himself) thinks he should.

        • I actually ended up siding with Lilly for much of this episode because of that. Then Lilly returns to her home address in downtown Psychotic-Prickville and Kenny returns to just being a normal a-hole, and I go back to siding with Kenny.

          • I felt really bad for Lilly once Episode 3 started. (Episode 2)Once Kenny straight up murders the shit out of Larry I felt that she deserved my sympathy and pity. I tried my best to console her. At first, I was helping to track down the traitor in order to humor her, but then I found that the evidence was solid. It made her eventual unhinging all the more tragic to me.

    • I really like the touch that all of the characters are dressed differently because it’s fall and getting colder. It doesn’t seem like much, but so many games only have one or two costumes per character that it is almost like they only have one outfit (like Ezio and his clown suit).

      • anaphysik says:

        What is interesting though is how many discrepancies between the ‘next time on’ and the actual scenes from E2 I noticed. (Relevant example being how Mark is dressed differently in them, but also lots of details.)

        Man, it’s almost as if they hadn’t finished Episode 2 before they released Episode 1.

    • Isy says:

      The thing I found most interesting about Shamus’ decision to choose Doug was he said in an earlier episode it wasn’t even that hard of a decision. Meaning despite Carley having easily five times as much screentime as Doug, her saving Lee twice, and her having the conversation about his past, he did not forge even the slightest emotional connection to her.

      [Mandatory Disclaimer: This is not a judgment value. I am not saying Shamus is wrong or bad for not liking the fictional computer data person I liked.]

      • Shamus says:

        Interesting facts:

        * Doug is portrayed as a “regular” guy.
        * He’s probably the most agreeable and gentle person in the game, aside from the children.
        * He’s more technical than badass.
        * He looks kinda like I did at that age.

        • Of course, neither choice is right or wrong, but a reflection of your values.

          So you either saw something or didn’t see something that the vast majority of others didn’t/did. Nothing wrong with that.

        • Isy says:

          I liked Doug a lot, and really lamented the decision, but he felt very marginalized by the game writers right up until this point. He seems to come into his own more after you pick who to save, which is not a great scenario for his survival.

          It’s kind of interesting to have to pick which person out of a couple will live… so I’d kinda wish they’d pushed off the decision to later episodes. Right now it’s an interesting idea that has pretty much no impact, because they’d just met.

        • Wraith says:

          I also liked Doug a lot, but the thing is that Carley gets a lot more focus and has better chemistry with Lee than Doug does. I must disagree with you, however, in saying Doug is “more technical than badass” – if you talk to Carley about him in Ep1, she mentions that he saved her life at great risk; you comment to the gist of “That guy? I guess you never know who the heroes are when push comes to shove.” In Episode 2 Despite not having a weapon, Doug distracts Andy St. John using a laser pointer. Throughout the game, it’s made clear that Doug does not like guns, and is very unfamiliar and uncomfortable using them. In Episode 3, When the bandits attack and Lily disrupts them, Doug hesitates but still grabs a gun and shoots one of them to protect the group. And finally, When Lily is about to shoot Ben for being a “traitor,” Doug pushes Ben out of the way and takes the bullet.

          Doug is badass.

          • anaphysik says:

            On E2 spoiler: that’s kind of cool. I’ll have to check the other ones once I finish the other episodes.

            (EDIT: because of post order, my eyes bugged out for a second and saw the “Confirm you are NOT a spammer” check box as “Confirm you are NOT a bearded dork” XD )

        • The thing I thought was interesting about Doug is that, you can’t give him an energy bar in the pharmacy I tried.

        • So, you basically saved yourself. Makes sense… but it looks like most other people would have let you die!

          I wonder how any of us would actually fare in that kind of situation?
          I ran a RP session once where everyone played themselves, and it started at the moment (and location) the actual session started, and was set in the beginning of a zombie onslaught (from the nearby mall). We couldn’t finish it. Nearly everyone got too freaked out.

          • Isy says:

            The lesson here is that if Shamus is in a zombie apocalypse with some weird guy who wanders around and solves everyone’s problems, Shamus needs to go talk to that guy instead of keeping watch like he’s supposed to.

            (I have no physical strength, no gun skills, and majored in History and Art. I’m also nightmarishly terrified of the walking dead. I fully expect to be bodily thrown to the zombies by my companions, in the event of an apocalypse.)

        • Steve C says:

          Doug lost “capable guy” status outside the pharmacy for me. The “HEY IS EVERYTHING ALRIGHT OVER THERE? YOU NEED TO HURRY UP BECAUSE WE ARE BEING SNEAKY HERE. THE ZOMBIES ARE GOING TO START COMING OVER HERE IF WE MAKE TOO MUCH NOISE! OH CRAP HERE THEY COME.”

          Though help given to Carley wasn’t what I expected. ‘You appear to want something from your purse so I’ll get it for you…’ wasn’t what I would have done. I would have kicked the zombie to get it off her leg and I expected Lee to do the same.

        • Dreadjaws says:

          Plus, I’m pretty sure Doug has mastered the advanced technology of batteries.

    • Isy says:

      The thing I find interesting about Shamus saving Doug was he said it wasn’t even a hard decision. Which means despite her having about five times as much screentime as Doug, saving Lee twice, and having that conversation about his past, Shamus did not even forge the tiniest emotional connection to her.

      [Mandatory Disclaimer: This is not a value judgment. I do not think Shamus is bad or wrong for not liking a fictional computer data person. If anything I think it's funny.]

      I really enjoyed the later conversations with Carley, though, which makes me both happy and sad Spoiler Warning picked Doug.

  9. The Rocketeer says:

    I just wanna say that I finished the game last night. I want to play through it at least once more before really talking about it or watching this series.

    But I have not been this excited in a LONG time. Braaaaavooooo, Telltale.

  10. Deadpool says:

    I don’t fault Larry for not helping. It’s game logic. Everyone else is useless and ineffectual, main character is the only one who solves anything. Just how games are.

    Him trying to kill Lee though is pretty unforgivable. I’ve mentioned this before, but it’s the only scene I can remember when Kenny is unequivocally good and helpful, and the only scene where Larry is EVIL as opposed to just an asshole. I’m fairly certain this was done on purpose to make the freezer scene a bit more interesting.

    Lily though? She’s rough around the edges but she’s actually kinda reasonable (until things happen…). I mean, through most of episode 2 she’ll react favorably to your playing middle of the road and being, y’know, REASONABLE. I found myself liking her more than her counterpart, who reacts explosively to anything short of complete agreement.

    Btw, on that subject, I didn’t side with Kenny on Duck. This is because defending Duck and stopping them from killing them UNTIL we find out if he’s bitten (and then, if he IS bitten, dealing with it accordingly) is somehow considered not having his back. Yeah…

    • Jokerman says:

      Its his son and one of Kenny’s flaws is taking things too personal, he is a man of many flaws….and i really like it.

    • I also grew to like Lilly a lot in Episode 2, (Episode 3)which made that whole freak out in the RV so much more painful for me. I had brought Carley along and was flirting with her, and I also made a friend out of Lilly. Having a friend shoot was a painful thing to see. Ben being the actual traitor made it even worse.

      • I did the same things. I surprised to learn that Ben was the traitor, I actually thought it was Kenny. I assumed that was why he was suddenly a complete a-hole and so hot and heavy to leave. It made sense for his character to buy time for his family by paying off the bandits then leaving as soon as possible.

        • krellen says:

          I knew it was Ben from the very start. He’s a scared kid, obviously a scared kid, and did what a scared kid would do – anything he could to feel safe.

          • I had some chores to do right after getting the quest and initially talking to a few people, I initially thought it was Ben from the way Ken tells everybody when they return that “having Ben on watch is like advertising that the men are gone.” Then I over thought things while doing my chores and came to the conclusion that Kenny being the traitor makes the most sense, and that I didn’t really care.

          • Isy says:

            I guessed it was Ben from the way he was reacting. Which actually kind of made me mad – not because Lilly was right (sure she was, but she was acting like a freaking Nazi), but because it adds to the constant media trope of “someone is acting nervous. THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE.” You have a bunch of real world people who understand nothing about how humans work but still think they’re Colombo because that guy over there is acting funny!

            Ben had kind of a lot of reasons to be stammering and acting scared right then, not the least of which was because Lilly was pointing a gun at his head and threatening to shoot him, without any evidence, unless he admitted to be guilty, at which point she would shoot him anyway.

        • Sean Riley says:

          I was actually betting on Doug as the traitor. It’s clear he feels fairly useless and pointless in the group, and it was plausible to me that he could have proactively tried to broker a deal, but been too afraid to tell.

          • In my playthrough, I had Carley. (Episode 3)After she and I had grown close, and she had told me to tell the people I trusted about my past (I told everyone, and they all liked me more for telling them.), I KNEW she wasn’t the guilty one. I had also trusted Kenny. Even after his antics in the city, he still seemed like a straight up dude. Ben was the only the only one who was remotely suspicious. I had just forgotten by the time he confessed.

            BTW, aside from Larry in Episode 1, I never really held any malice towards any of the characters even when they were screwing me over. I wonder if that’s the writers doing their jobs, or my naivete.

    • Sean Riley says:

      Yeah, I’m in that camp too. Lily’s a much more interesting character, possibly my favorite one, actually. She’s a control freak, but she’s also a decent enough leader with the spine to make tough decisions and stand by them. During episode 2, I found myself consistently siding with her.

      I do agree Larry’s a waste, though.

  11. supflidowg says:

    I don’t know about anyone else but I really liked the Walking Dead tv show, and also the tv show is sort of like the game but slower storywise.(Tv show is in season 3 and is oddly similar to the game’s episode 3)like in episode 3 they deal with a seemingly friendly group that is secretly sinister, same basic thing in the tv show

  12. So, clearly you need to survive after Larry tries to kill you. If you haven’t been pro-Kenny, does he still show up but doesn’t call you friend? Or does someone else come by?

    (I have no intention of playing this, but I do intend to play Telltale’s Back to the Future.)

    • Jokerman says:

      Kenny comes in and says “You’re an asshole, but i wont leave anyone to be eaten”

    • Aldowyn says:

      Remember that line at the end? “especially a good friend”? The scene plays out pretty much exactly the same way, except Kenny says ‘even an asshole like you” or something like that.

      • Jokerman says:

        I was more pissed that Larry punched you even when you sided with him, it wouldnt be too hard to change that a little and make him slightly softer to you later…still have him being an ass, thats who he is, but not a near killer unless you are aggressive towards him before hand.

        But no, they just made him evil no matter what – i could almost…almost get his views if the known murderer just threatened/encouraged`kenny to hit him yet he did not try to kill you otherwise.

        • Actually, they didn’t even need to have that scene if you side with Larry. It isn’t essential to the plot going forward that tries to kill you. You can still make him angry, raging, and mistrustful, but there was just no reason to have him try to off you if you sided with him.

          Especially since you HAVE to help him in Episode 1 and that help is what causes Carley or Doug to bite the bullet.

        • Steve C says:

          Well if you side with Larry then in Larry’s eyes you’re guilty of wanting to kill a kid. Larry won’t stand for that. (He wanted to do it.)

  13. Arkadiy says:

    Spoiler for the comic lies here
    Glenn was beaten to death by a baseball bat in the comic. He lived like 100 issues, though. And in my opinion that was really cheap emotion-whoring for an anniversary

    Anyway, I am still on the fence about choices in this game. I think we’d better have this discussion later, but for now – it really DOES seem like it would be really different if you did something else
    But once you start a second playthrough, comes a realization that the game actually has false choice. A really well-handled and well-written, though

    • GiantRaven says:

      Yeah, of all the deaths in the comic. That one was definitely the lamest. Glenn was one of the characters that should’ve been brought through to the end.

      In fact, come to think of it, that whole arc was full of lame deaths. Abraham got a shitty sending off as well.

  14. X2Eliah says:

    Yikes. That recap/”coming next” stuff is.. well, it’s awful. As Chris said, it probably is okay when playing sporadically, but doing all the episodes back-to-back in one session (and it looks like this game is short enough to do in a single weekend session).. Well this is just dumb.

    • MrGuy says:

      So, to be fair to Telltale…

      I’ve played other games of theirs before, and I assume this is similar. If you’re playing the games as released, they only release one episode at a time, at 1-2 week intervals. So for the people who “subscribe” to the game as it’s being released, you can’t play the whole thing as a single marathon session – you have to wait in between episodes.

      If you’re playing along “during” the season, these make sense. You played Episode 1? Great! Here’s a teaser for what you’ll get next week. You’re back to start Episode 2 on release day? Here’s a reminder of the important stuff from Episode 1 that you played last week.

      I admit they’re more than a bit annoying when (like us) you’re NOT getting these spaced out over time and you have to sit through the “next time on/last time on” back-to-back…

      By the way, note to Valve – this is how other, less “teasing” game companies handle the whole “episode” thing…

    • I don’t mind the “Next Time/”Previously” stuff, I hate that I have to sit through the credits every time or miss out on the score card at the end. I almost missed the final scene of the game because of it and did have to YouTube it to watch the whole thing.

  15. Jokerman says:

    I saved Doug first time through, but wish i saved Carley after finding out in my 2nd playthrough that you get a chance to reveal your past to the group.

    Also does anyone wish that instead of having Glen here in episode 1 you should of had Mark…pretty much having Mark play the exact role as Glen to flesh him out a little for episode 2, not that they didnt do a good job….i truly did like Mark even with the little screen time he had, I still would rather him in here than a cameo who leaves right away anyway.

    • But… but… NEEDLESS CAMEOS!!!!
      Do you want this game to not have needless cameos!?
      The answer is yes. Or cupcakes.

      On a serious note, I agree. Putting Mark there instead of Glenn pretty much removes the problem with his character being introduced semi-randomly. Hell, since he is from the Air Force Base, you could easily explain that he escaped with Lilly and add a little more to BOTH their characters.

      • X2Eliah says:

        The writers just had a typo in the design document. The original idea was for the characters to wear a lot of camos so the zombies wouldn’t spot them so easily, and go overboard with the whole camouflage-application, which would explain the needlessness and introduce a major plot point.

  16. SougoXIII says:

    ‘I know I wouldn’t want to be stuck in a room with him!’

    Hah! Nice foreshadow there from Mark.

    I agree with Glitch. Mark is my favourite character, I hope he gets to stick around till the end of the game.

    On another note, did anyone find it weird that a zombi- I mean walker was able to caught a rabbit? I mean if the rabbit were to be surrounded by a group then I can see it happening but those thing are hard enough to catch when you’re not being reduce to a walking pace.

    • Indy says:

      I agree, the end choice of the game where you have to pick between everybody else on the planet living and Mark living was just so simple for me. Mark everytime.

      * Not actually the final decision of the game or even close to it.

      ** It’s more like the final decision in episode 4.

      *** Okay, it’s not there either.

    • anaphysik says:

      I think the rabbit had been caught in a trap laid by the survivors, which is why they were searching there in the first place. So the zombie just moseyed over to the trapped rabbit and started nomming away.

      (I don’t know if that’s true or not from what’s shown, but I had wondered the same thing and that was what my mind filled in.)

  17. Jokerman says:

    Josh, make sure you force Larry to eat human….just dont reveal what it is right away when you are trying to stop people and you get the option to say “Tell you what, fuck you larry…eat up.” It was my favourite option in this whole episode.

    • KremlinLaptop says:

      I loved that. I took so much sinister pleasure in doing it. Even though it’s a zombie game I was still shocked by the violence in the Walking Dead. I’ve seen entrails and limbs flying around in loads of games and movies, but here I was genuinely horrified by those things.

      Especially the Lee in episode 5. Alone. In the mortuary. With the bonesaw. I swung from video-game logic of, “It’s just my left arm, pfft.” to “OH GOD. OH GOD LEE STAAAHP.” but I guess when you’re cutting off bits of yourself pussying out after the first cut isn’t an option…

      • Indy says:

        That might need a spoiler tag.

        • KremlinLaptop says:

          …Yeah. I put one there. So apparently [spoiler][/spoiler] isn’t how spoiler tags work here.

          And I just ran out of time to edit the comment. FML.

          • It’s the [strike] tags. Hopefully Shamus wakes up soon to work his moderator magic.

            • X2Eliah says:

              Aye, and I’ve never understood why. I mean, “strike” tags logically would imply a strike-through effect (a line overlapping the words right in the middle). There’s not even any semantic closeness of meanings between the terms spoiler and strike, no matter which definitions you pick.

              • krellen says:

                There’s no such thing as a “spoiler” tag in HTML, whereas rendering the spoiler effect with an existing tag – like strike – is as simple as modifying your CSS.

              • Shamus says:

                Adding to what Krellen said above:

                WordPress will only allow public commenters to use a small number of “safe” tags. That is, you can’t embed javascript, or other pages, or add a bunch of your own CSS. If you use any forbidden tags, then WordPress will strip them out.

                So for spoilers, I had to re-purpose an existing tag: bold, italics, strike, etc. Strike seemed the most sensible.

  18. Jokerman says:

    My end game screen looked exactly like that, only i somehow lied to Hershel…even though i thought i didn’t.

  19. I think Shamus is right on with his “no bird left” theory. While it’s hard to tell given the art style, Mark looks like he’s carrying a Browning Automatic Rifle Safari, which can be chambered for anything from .243 to .338; any of which are probably more than a little bit overkill for a crow (which apparently tastes like crap anyway so save your ammo, Mark).

    But the game never really concerned itself with that kind of thing which I don’t think is a big deal: weapons in the game are just another tool in your point-and-click arsenal and there’s not really a need to give them weapon-specific stats or anything. For all intents and purposes a shot to the head is a shot to the head and whatever walker you hit with it is gonna go down. The only thing that I felt they could have done better was give Lee a limited ammo pool so you’d have to decide when and how to use your bullets when presented with choices like hitting the train conductor in episode 3 or putting down the zombie kid in the attic in episode 4. The first-person shooting bits didn’t really offer much tension since I could seemingly just blast away with my magically-bottomless Glock and not worry about much, and I think limiting your resources to use said weapon would have been interesting.

  20. baseless research says:

    I have a question: would Alpha Protocol have been a better game (ignoring the lack of polish for a moment) if they’d used the Walking Dead formula of dialogue and puzzle solving?

    By that I mean smaller sets where Thorton would need to do spy stuff with the occasional QTE when a guard walks in on your espionage activities.

    I doubt there is anyone who would bemoan the prospect of AP’s dialogue choices be more clear before selecting them, but I’m focusing more on the non-dialogue gameplay in both games.

  21. KremlinLaptop says:

    Right. This is tangentially related to SW and the Walking Dead. Most has to do with immersion in video-games in general and Far Cry 3:

    I never realized how much I’ve started to ROLEPLAY in a FPS games due to the new Fallout games, Skyrim, etc. When I got my 1911 in FC3 the first thing I thought was, “I’m around friendly folks, better holster this piece,” and then found out I CAN’T. (The game auto-holsters for you in such zones.)

    Realism, immersion, etc has far more to do with letting players interact with the world in a logical fashion — and the world reacting to those actions appropriately — than graphics. The Walking Dead hits both ends of the spectrum on this one. Mainly the game feels very real because you and others act in a real sort of way. It makes it feel much more genuine. This also completely BREAKS when something illogical happens.

    In EP5 when you’re going to the bell-tower from the hospital roof, you prop the ladder in place the others on the roof say they’ll keep it steady. They just all stand in a half circle and watch the one armed man fumble across a five story chasm of death and zombies without anyone holding the ladder. Bit sloppy, but alright.

    THEN YOU HAVE TO JUMP FROM THE BELL TOWER TO THE HOSPITAL AND NO ONE HELPS THE ONE ARMED MAN PULLING HIMSELF UP ALONG THE EDGE OF THE BUILDING AFTER THE JUMP. They just all stand there and watch. It felt so damned ridiculous.

  22. Amnestic says:

    Couldn’t you accuse Ashley of being a space racist in Mass Effect 1?

  23. Elilupe says:

    Rutskarn, I think you should know, Glenn’s shirt is in reference to a hip-hop group called Heiroglyphics from California. The logo is supposed to be a three-eyed face.
    It’s weird, I know, but it’s a nice touch.

  24. I’ve been thinking long and hard on this, and I honestly don’t see why they made Larry try to kill Lee. That scene did not need to happen and does nothing for Larry’s character. It just amplifies feelings you already have towards him at this point.

    • Even says:

      Emotional manipulation, very likely. If you can count one thing, it’s the writers trying to mess with you constantly and attempting to evoke certain feelings at key moments. It’s the perfect icing on the cake to convince yourself that this guy really deserves your hate.

      • But I mean, that seems kinda pointless. Especially since he’s about to be killed off in this very episode.

        • Even says:

          It’s only pointless if you’re inclined to hang on to your first impressions. If you were to be rational about it, him acting the way he does could be due to any number of underlying reasons and until it’s clear it may be a good idea to avoid making final judgments of character. The point where he tries to kill you is the point where the gloves come off for most people if they didn’t earlier.

      • anaphysik says:

        Except that you can’t do ANYTHING reasonable about hating Larry. No matter what, you’re stuck with him until the end of E2. There are THREE MONTHS in between E1 and E2 in which Lee apparently does *nothing* to get this horrible, awful person out of their group (except I guess tell Mark that he punched you one time <_<).

        Having to deal with Larry after this bullshit made me hate *the writers* more than Larry. And I’m pretty sure I’m going to continue to hate the writers for making me stuck with Lilly.

        It’s about to get even worse when they get back to the motel, too. Made me explode on Twitter when I heard some of that dialogue.

    • krellen says:

      I think the scene is less about Larry and more about Kenny. Kenny’s the only character aside from Clem that is with Lee throughout the entire season. They wanted to forge a connection from the very start.

      That’s why Larry punches you no matter what, and why Kenny saves you no matter what.

      • Even says:

        Either way I’d see it as just general and very intentional emotional build up. You don’t know at the time where you’re going to end up and with who. If you sided with Larry, you may feel betrayed by him and remorseful towards Kenny. Siding with Kenny, you’ll probably hate Larry even more and appreciate Kenny sticking up for you and returning the favor so to speak.

        Admittedly it’d been interesting to have an option to try and help Larry find some redemption from being such an insufferable asshole. I’d like to believe Lilly on that he’d be a nicer guy if it wasn’t for the apocalypse. There’s a hint of it there in a couple of scenes, but they’re easy to miss.

        And then he dies. Alas.

  25. Bertilak de Hautdesert says:

    Though Carley only has one zombie grabbing her at the moment and the gun, she doesn’t have any bullets–right before you make the choice she reaches toward her purse for ammo but cannot reach it and shouts as much to Lee. She could presumably pistol-whip the ankle zombie in a way Doug cannot without a weapon of any sort, but that’s an awkward mode of attack at best, and unless she changed her grip on the pistol, it would mean bringing her hand far too close to the zombie’s mouth with so little guarantee of breaking the grip. I think you oversold the disparity between the two characters’ plights.

    That said, I have to admit I chose Carley mostly for metagame reasons, not because she seemed to be in the greater peril, so there is a point to be made in how the choice was framed even if you did catch her line about the ammo.

  26. Steve-O says:

    Just dawned on me… to do a quick time event, you have to press “Q” then “E”, “Q”uicktime “E”vent. Coincidence?! ; p

  27. BenD says:

    A couple years later, Bendy dropped by to giggle at Rutskarn’s even more shameless, yet very subtle, spoiler at 8:57.

Leave a Reply

Comments are moderated and may not be posted immediately. Required fields are marked *

*
*

Thanks for joining the discussion. Be nice, don't post angry, and enjoy yourself. This is supposed to be fun.

You can enclose spoilers in <strike> tags like so:
<strike>Darth Vader is Luke's father!</strike>

You can make things italics like this:
Can you imagine having Darth Vader as your <i>father</i>?

You can make things bold like this:
I'm <b>very</b> glad Darth Vader isn't my father.

You can make links like this:
I'm reading about <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darth_Vader">Darth Vader</a> on Wikipedia!