T w e n t y S i d e d
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From this point on, most of the game revolves around a plot-driven door.
A natural side-effect of plot doors is that players will scrutinize them in direct proportion to how much hassle it is to open it. In the Neverwinter Nights 2 example I linked above, it takes the player about a quarter of the game to open a door. Therefore that potion of the game attracted a lot of analysis, which resulted in the entire thing flying apart for me.
The Assassin’s Creed 2 writers seemed to be aware of this danger, so they wisely set up this mission to examine the building and establish that it is exceptionally secure. This helps persuade the player that the upcoming steps will be justified. On the other hand, the mission itself is kind of annoying, and it doesn’t really satisfy all objections.
For example, if I was trying to sneak in to that place and kill somebody, my first thought would be, “Food and water are getting in there somehow. These are not carried by nobles. These will be carried by peasants. Maybe I should consider taking off MY MAGNIFICENTLY FLAMBOYANT CLOWN SUIT and try to slip in undetected. Maybe explore some other methods of assassination besides ‘frontal assault’.” Well, I’d think of that before I thought of “flying machine”, at any rate.
This setup made me even more angry at Ezio. He stayed his blade when all of his foes were right in front of him. Later they’ve moved into an impregnable fortress and NOW he wants to kill them?
Of course, they could have just stuck to the core mechanics and missions like the original, and then I’d fault the game for feeling repetitive. Or they could cull the repetition and I’d ding the game for being too short. Instead of the Good, fast, cheep tradeoff, games seem to have “long, diverse, well-made”. Looking at it that way, Assassin’s Creed 2 actually performs better than most games. But I wouldn’t be doing my job if I let these plot-hacks slip by without comment.
EDIT: Edited the first paragraph to fix my nearly incoherent introduction.
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I hate PDD (Plot Driven Doors)
This is why I prefer sandbox games… Like.. oh, I don’t know..
Somebody knows a nice recently published sandbox game?
Well, not recently, but some early trailers have been released for the next GTA game ;-)
GTA? Don’t you mean Plot Driven City?
Alex does have a point. I hardly see how it’s a real sandbox game, rather than a serie of “Plot-dependant quest givers”.
Any other suggestions? I thought there was suppose to be a very important sandbox game…
OH YHEA! The Old Republic!
i get to beta test that soon :) so yea, jelly?. it also means i can’t tell anyone anything i think about the game at all, ‘cus of the nda but oh well. you still jelly i bet?
MIIIIIINEEEECRAAAAAAFT!
(Coincidentally, its full release is coming out tomorrow! Woooohooo!)
Uhm…..you could call Skyrim a sandbox….SKYRIIIIIIIIIIIIM.
On a serious note, you could try Saints Row 3, I heard it was pretty good, AND fun!
Hum… What is this “Skyrim” you speak of? Any good?
The game where you rim the sky.Dont you read the comments below the videos?
Rim the Sky?
Sounds messy
Saints Row the Third just came out, looks like so much fun, can’t wait for mine to arrive in the mail.
“Edited the first paragraph to fix my nearly incoherent introduction.” — See, now I really want to see what that looked like. Curse your ephemeral nature, internet!
Well it probably said portion where it says potion now.I mean portion of the game makes no sense.
Bah. It was unclear that I was talking about NWN2, and my comments on that game seemed to apply to AC2.
Isn’t it rather weird that three conspirators would walk in broad daylight and explain their plans loudly, instead of, for example, in private?
Also, that guy is almost as bad as Lydia at assuming the shortest distance between two points is go.. somewhere and have adventures. My Lydia once decided to go backwards through a Dwemer ruin instead of taking one step onto a small amount of snow.
I feel like this is a problem of exposition in games. If this were a film I’m sure they would have been inside that impenetrable building and Ezio under an open window or something. This solves the problem of why he doesn’t just kill them, he can’t, and it’s a much more sensible place to talk about your evil plans. It almost feels like this part exists as an excuse to have a “follow these people without being seen” mission, rather than being what the plot calls for.
There is a lot of exposition to get through and giving the player something to do stops it from falling into Final Fantasy or Metal Gear Solid syndrome of feeling like a film with playable bits in between the story.
Of course finding a way to get the information across while avoiding the villian’s speech altogether would be better than both of these options.
I was waiting for that “Assassins peed” – I’m glad you delivered!
…Of all the places in the world, -this- is the place where someone drops a Dire Straits reference? Good on you, Shamus, good on you.
Well, depending on how bad the Assassins had to pee, they could have been in Dire Straits. You know, Assassins In Need.
What, where? I missed it…enlighten me?
Start at about 14:35. The reference starts about 14:42
“That ain’t workin’, that’s the way you do it” is a reference to Money For Nothing, one of Dire Straits’ most iconic songs along with Sultans of Swing and Brothers In Arms.
It’s notorious for introducing the word “faggot”, though it makes -perfect- sense in context.
Aha, cheers. I heard the line, didn’t make the connection.
Or did I? I have a memory of thinking “kudos to Shamus” for some particular reference but I don’t remember what it was now.
I may have to rewatch this episode.
I don’t think Rutskarn’s age had anything to do with him not getting it. I’m 6 months older than he is and I got that reference immediately.
What I’m saying is that he’s a Philistine.
So thats why its called ASSassins creed.Its steamy ray vaughn edition.
Who cares about Stephanie Brown? Carrie Kelly did it first.
And knew about Jason Todd dying before the rest of us.Consider this the angry post saying Stephanie Brown was great as Robin.
Eh. Honestly, she really wasn’t too useful as Robin. She really only got completely awesome after she grew up a bit. She was awesome as Batgirl. I’m real happy for Babs and all, but I loved Steph as Batgirl.
You can insult Jason Todd any day, though. Feel free. :D
I’ve only seen under the red hood so my view of Jason Todd is king badass who is probably right about everything, but the prospect of that is so terrifying that batman would prefer to just get rid of him.
Same here.
Yeah, it wasn’t until BQM got his hands on her that she came into her own. As Robin, she went on one mission, where she disobeyed orders in order to save Batman, letting the villain escape*. Not the greatest track record.
That said, she never actively murdered anyone while wearing the Robin outfit, so she was still a better one than Todd.
*All of this stems from the fact that Bruce Wayne is a dick. A giant, MASSIVE dick.
Let’s not forget that Tim Drake got his costume after doing the same thing.
It really does come down to Batman being a terrible person for awhile.
Oh,right,why ezio didnt kill them then and there.See,the game is really bad at conveying this,especially when played by someone like Josh,but ezio was not a blood thirsty killer.So he was trailing these guys to find out what they are planning,not murder them.In retrospect,he probably shouldve,seeing what happened because they lived.
so he’s like the sniper from tf2.
ones a profession and the other thing is mental sickness good to know. also in Revelations Ezio is oooold. like late 50’s old. and still kills guards. soldiers. Templars and minstals without a sweat.
Ezio is the ancestor of solid snake.
And Sam Fisher
But… but he totally does assassinate people. He assassinated a guy who was going to be at this very meeting the previous night. They’re discussing their plans to kill the leader of the city and take over. Once that becomes clear, what possible reason does he have to not assassinate a bunch of his sworn enemies right then and there?
According to the subtitles, the explanation is stupid.
Ezio (paraphased): “Damn it. They got away!”
No,he says I should have kept my eyes on them.No were does he say he shouldve killed them.
Sure,he does assassinate people.But what does he do evey time?Tell them to rest in peace.Hes not doing it for revenge any more.He got his revenge.These are not his sworn enemies,he disposed of his sworn enemies in the beginning.
But then the problem arrises of what the hell Ezio’s motivation is. It pretty much has to be revenge. If it isn’t why did he come to Venezia after he was done with the Pazzi? Just for the fun of it?
But yeah, I agree with you that the game’s narrative is really bad at conveying the non-bloodthirsty aspect of Ezio’s character (then again it’s bad at conveying anything about his character). Its why the “That will save me from having to bloody my sword”-line sounds so silly. It sure as hell doesn’t help that the sidemissions has you murder incredible ammounts of people with the sole motivation of money.
He came to accept the thing that his father and uncle did:Stopping the templar plans.Its supposed to be a growth narative,he starts with a blind revenge,but then sees the big picture,and how what his father and uncle did was good,and continues that work.Thats why you are collecting codex pages,and finding out about the artifacts that altair hid.Except that its a little bit disjointed,seeing how the main narrative doesnt blend that seamlessly with your codex hunt.
I honestly never got that from the story. I just figured that Ezio was still doing this for revenge at this point.
I don’t think I can be blamed for that either, seeing as none of this growth is really shown in game.
The problem is the presentation of Ezio’s character. Or better phrased, the utter lack thereoff. It’s only at the very end of the game when we we’re being shown that Ezio has changed.
Ezio decision to not kill Borgia at the end (spoiler warning, derp) doesn’t come across as the result of a character walking a long path, learning things, overcomming obstacles and becomming a better man in the process.
It comes across as a sudden, almost impulsive decision of a man who – after a long, long time – finally got to the end, found that he was tired and just said “screw this”.
And thats the main problem of the whole asscreed series.Its trying to tell two(well,a few more than two)parallel stories at the same time,and ends up with one of them being rather overstretched(the desmond story)and the other being disjointed and nonsensical at times(ezio story this time).So while desmonds growth is being so slowed down that people dont even see it,ezios is being sped up so much that they jump from him starting to get the creed to him immediately knowing everything about it.And this doesnt make the game normally paced on average,but just plain messed up.
I think there are more and deeper problem then pacing issues, but it’s certainly a part of it.
We agree on something! Wee!
Not gonna lie, when Mumbles talked about Rutskarn’s character sparkling, my first thought was this.
Then I realized that that that was a silly idea, and that I’ve just spent too long with the PPC…
Wait a minute. Doesn’t Antonio turn out to be an Assassin at the end of the game? And does he not perform a Leap of Faith, along with the rest of the Assassins?
Then why the hell is he more useless than Jason Todd Robin?
He is not performing leap of faith because he doesn’t want to show off that he is an Assassin too. Leap of Faith is an Assassin thing. On the other hand, while we might know this, Ezio doesn’t.
“Leap of Faith is an Assassin thing”
Oh, so that’s why Francesco de’Pazzi could do it to.
…
Wait.
Well he is Reginald Cufbert, and he is not a Assassin.
I like to think that maybe Ezio and Rosa were just bumping uglies and there was absolutely no real depth to it other then a booty call. Because this is Italy and Ezio is a young man.
That’s why its hinted at only lightly, because really, there’s nothing more to it.
That’s what I think anyway.
But theyve already shown all of the other pointless sexcapades ezio had,so why restrain themselves here?
The only one they actually showed explicitly was the first girl, and that was, I think, to establish that Ezio is a young horny guy in Italy. Everyone else, while it’s been overt flirting and doesn’t leave much to imagination, hasn’t been any difference then what he did with Rosa there.
On the other hand, I think they initialy planed to have more things done in Venezia, but cut it later. Maybe were planing to release it as a DLC?
The first girl, the horse race girl in Forli, and later in Venice. Given that, they give Ezio a sex scene in every explorable area except Monteriggioni and San Gimignano. Given how later Ezio does a bit of introspection with Rosa and the flirting and implied actions it seems pretty clear that they’re close so it’s surprising that they wouldn’t give a bit more time to showing their relationship building.
Granted, by and large, the AC games don’t do much work in showing growing relationships between the main and everyone else at all, with a couple people that might be exceptions.
Maybe he’s not having relationships with these women, just relations :)
After that Robin burn, Mumbles is my new hero.
I got the Big Bad Beetle Borgs reference Rustkarn.
I have not had reason to remember the Beetleborgs for years now until this video brought them back. I once had a Beetleborg action figure, complete with a Beetlebike, or whatever the heck they called them.
I can’t help but wonder how many of this rich and wonderfull fanfiction involves terrible, terrible things between Josephine and Flabber.
I just had an exam today. I reserved an hour of my afternoon to catch back on the three Spoiler Warning videos I had behind.
And now you do this to me, Mumbles?
You insult Stephanie Brown? The most will-driven, dream-pursuer character of the Batman mythos. One of the characters that wore the Robin mantle in full right of it despite being treated like crap by editors who only wanted to use it for a bait-and-switch and objectified the character sexually in a death-torture scene. The character which got one of the best titles post Final Crisis and which brought with it some of the best writing I’ve seen in the latest years of comics? My favourite DC character!
I’m sorry, I know that what I’m about to say shouldn’t be said, and it obviously goes over some unspeakable rules of wishing bad things onto someone else; but this time you crossed the line, and I’m going to say the thing all the viewers thought about saying but we did not because it would be too cruel for you:
You should date Rutskarn, you two deserve each other.
Nice episode though :P
“You should date Rutskarn, you two deserve each other.”
Now that’s just rude. You apologize to Mumbles right this minute.
Now you know why it’s called Spoiler Warning.
She was stupid, boy crazy, immature and she refused to follow ANY bat orders. To be fair, I really liked her as Batgirl (her and Damian were so cute), but she was supposed to be super lame as Robin.
Also, stop saying Rutskarn should date me. He can’t even crush a beer can on his forehead without getting a concussion.
Besides, is he even old enough to date? It would probably be all kinds of illegal if he did.
The order she refused to follow was basically “Stay in the car, touch nothing. I’m fine fighting this flame dude. NO, STAY THERAHHH OHMYGOD I’M ON FIREAAHH.” There’s not a Robin alive that would have listened to that(except Tim). Her tenure as Robin was pointless, but that was Bruce’s fault as much as hers.
“Also, stop saying Rutskarn should date me. He can't even crush a beer can on his forehead without getting a concussion and arrested for having the beer.”
Fixed.
Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right….
are you commissioner Gordon in an interrogation room?
I’m sure he could wreck a milk carton though.
Actually, the viewers will complain the comments that Ezio doesn’t just stab everyone because stabbing people doesn’t mean their replacements (who you DON’T know) won’t go ahead with their plans. It also doesn’t let you find out who their friends and co-conspirators are. Or what the Templar’s overarching plot is.
Not immediately stabbing everyone is the smart option.
Also while Ezio kills people, by this time he has settled in kind of Assassin morality, where he doesn’t kill if it’s not strictly necessary. And at that point those people would be more of use alive, so they can lead him to more of their friends.
At least when it comes to named NPCs with custom models. We all know cloned mooks simply don’t count under any morality.
I’m pretty sure Assassin morality is just a thing you made up.
I agree completely, particularly because of that “Spaniard” character Ezio doesn’t know could still go ahead with some unspecified plan even if the people in Venezia were killed.
However, it isn’t very Cuftbertian to show restraint, so it sorts of rubs everybody the wrong way.
See, the issue with that is that there’s seriously five people who are apparently pretty important within easy stabbing range. There just isn’t going to be a better chance to throw their plans out of whack. It’s an outlandish stroke of luck that he’s encountered this many people who can’t be easily replaced, and there’s no real likelihood he’ll end up with a better set of targets. This isn’t a case where their plans will just keep going if they lose these people, they’ll need to make new plans.
But thats the point. Ezio wants to be sure that by the time hes done, there wont be anyone left to make plans. Besides, on what do you base the fact that these five specific people are so important? (Hint: its probably the fact that they have names and unique models.)
How about the dialogue? That alone indicated pretty well that Carlo Grimaldi was their way to the Doge. Taking him out right then and there would ensure their immediate plan for killing the Doge would be useless.
It’s also obvious that while the others are no more then stooges, the Spaniard is the leader of the bunch.
Heck, even if Ezio didn’t want to kill anyone right then and there. Finding out more about the Spaniard would have been a smart thing to do. Follow him.
But no, that’s not what happens. Which brings me to the major problem I had with this segment writing-wise. Why the hell does Ezio just suddenly loose them? They’re on the middle of bridge! They had nowhere to go. Did Ezio just stare slack jawed at the birds for a couple of hours?
Sure,carlo was their link to the doge,but was he the only one?What were the plans of others?If ezio were to jump them and kill carlo and the spaniard,and the rest ran away,what would be their fall back plan?Is the spaniard the leader,or just the leaders right hand man?And what of their connection with the vatican?None of this is covered for quite some time after this mission,but all of it is important.
Follow then and find out. Make them panic and do something stupid.
Oh, but I’m sure if that happened there would be a cutscene in which Ezio loses them for no reason at all.
Follow 3 people at the same time?With the thieves guild of venice being your only crew?Yeah,that would be a bad idea.
This.
Ezio wants to make sure stabbing them all will actually solve some problems instead of just introducing new actors who might do the same thing or worse, and he wants to know if they have associates in other cities on whom he will need to go apply some stabbing afterwards.
I can tell this, and I haven’t even played the games, and know nothing about the plot except what I can hear when you guys pause for breath.
Er, this was supposed to be a reply to the comment above it (the one by Simulated Knave), but I can’t delete and repost as a reply, so, uh. Bad me for hitting the wrong post button there.
It’s obvious BECAUSE you haven’t played the game.
Ezio has no idea who all these people are, or who they connect to, or if he’s going to have to kill them. People who’ve finished the game already know all that.
“Because i’m the only other gay guy, er, gay, like, character.”
Nice save, Ruts.
I kid, only because that story actually caused me to hurt, in my soul.
And only because you cannot deny the truth of the tale.
s/cheep/cheap/
And yes, that is San Marco/St Mark’s. Well, that cathedral you ran across the roof of is, at least. If you go across the narrower direction across the plaza from the tall tower and climb across about two alleys, you should be in the neighborhood with all the Gucci handbags.
Yeah, that following mission was pretty nonsensical. Maybe they could have had you do a chain of shadowings, where the first two guys met up with the third guy and then one of them left and the other two met with another guy and split up again, and then the remaining guy met the last person, and then the last person mentioned having to talk to some other guy and then he went somewhere you couldn’t easily follow. Then it would make sense that Ezio didn’t assassinate these people because there would actually be a sensible progression by which he’d assume they would meet more people and he could go completely nuts on them.
Also, why did you go on a massive jumping mission with Antonio and not Rosa, who is actually allegedly good at jumping and has recovered by this point?
But, Ezio does have jumping missions with Rosa.
after the amnesia video, one face off reference is too many face off references :P
I was expecting another Face Off pun, and when it did not arrive, their was much rejoicing.
Yay.
Rutskarn shoulda learned to play the guitar.
He shoulda learned to play them drums.
Mmm, I thought the reason why Antonio had to come with you was to see if his Thieves could also get inside.
Ya know, since they’re completely incompetent and thus wouldn’t be able to do half the stuff Ezio does on a daily basis.
Oh, man… Is “Money for Nothin” really that dated a reference? Now I feel old.